Israel at war

basketcase

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...

But the land stealing I am referring to is since 1967....
I'm sure that the fact that pre-67, the West Bank was Jordanian and in their peace treaty they gave Israel authority over the West Bank doesn't enter your calculations.

I find settlements counterproductive but in a peace treaty, lands can be negotiated and transferred while the dead from terrorist violence can not be resurrected.
 
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Frankfooter

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What videos? Your propaganda? I wouldn't waste my time.

I was talking about the difference between debating with someone disingenuous and fuelled by hate as opposed to having a civil conversation with a civilized person.

Please try to stay on topic.
You were specifically saying that you were sure the leader of the Israeli military wasn't talking about the people of Gaza when he used the term 'human animal', even though you clearly hadn't checked.

So, I rather politely, supplied the videos of your guy with the two quotes. Which you promptly ignored or refused to comment on as then you'd have to admit that you are wrong and you are backing an admittedly genocidal war.

The 'propaganda' is video of the guy in question.
Please try to stay on topic and watch it.
You said you were sure he didn't say what he did, you should find out.
 

Frankfooter

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I find settlements counterproductive but in a peace treaty, lands can be negotiated and transferred while the dead from terrorist violence can not be resurrected.
You are lying again.

There should be a negotiated two state peace but there is no giving "back" land.
Which means there can be no two state solution that you would ever agree to.
 
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basketcase

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Maybe I am missing it but I would love to see the Hamas leader sit down for a press conference and explain what was going on in their tiny minds when they decided to enact October 7th?
What did they think they would achieve?
Have they achieved it?
What did they think would happen?
Did it happen?
Did they really think it through and consider the possibility of the outcome?
When they launched a raid into Israel, did they prepare by making sure the hospitals food and water supplies would be ok?
Shine on you crazy Diamond....
Explain please.
They have. In one the said that they were willing to sacrifice Palestinian people to meet their goals (though I have no idea how they thought attacking 1400 civilians would help them) In another they claimed that they were only going after military targets then stormed out when the host challenged them on it.

As I said, I have no clue what Hamas thought they would achieve other than killing some Jews. maybe they thought their Iranian backers would declare war and somehow wipe out Israel. I do know that anyone who cheered Hamas' attack is motivated by hatred and not by human rights in any conceivable way.
 
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basketcase

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You are lying again.



Which means there can be no two state solution that you would ever agree to.
Your claims are moronic and motivate3d simply by an obsessive hatred of Jews living in the middle East. There is no 'back' because Palestinians haven't ever ruled the land to begin with. A Palestinian state should be created but that won't happen as long as people like you and Hamas think violence will create peace.
 
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basketcase

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I said in my own post, that the Palestinians are no slouches either. However, we are talking about Israel, so this amounts to whataboutism.
...
So you only want to talk about one side of a conflict? Sorry but racism from both sides is part of what prevents peace so trying to blame only one side is useless.
 
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basketcase

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Mandela was listed as a terrorist.
The IRA were 'terrorists'.
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Mandela was NEVER listed as aterrorist by Canada.

The IRA WERE a terrorist group but thanks to NEGOTIATIONS, they were given amnesty when they committed to peace.

Moral people including many Palestinians would love Hamas to become a purely political organization. Meanwhile Hamas is still committed to death and destruction and you're still trying to claim that Oct. 7 targeted military.
 

basketcase

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Those are contradictory statements one after the other.

How will you create a state, without land, with just a bunch of enclaves that are walled off, and are not even contiguous?
No contradiction unless you have an alternate version of history. The region is currently rule by Israel. before that it was Jordan, the Brits, the Ottomans, Abbasids, Ayyubid , Crusaders, Byzantines, Romans, .... Except for very brief periods between empires, the last independent Kingdom in the region was Judea.

As for borders, Olmert offered a completely contiguous West bank with a corridor to Gaza. And if you think countries have to be contiguous, you may want to have a word with your own country about their border with Bangladesh.

The UN says that the only solution is a negotiated peace based on the pre-67 lines but can include land swaps. But what do they know.
 

basketcase

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Probably the same thing they thought in 2008, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2021 and 2022.
That they were resisting the illegal occupation and illegal blockade.
...
Once again Frank pretends attacks targeting civilians are an appropriate response to political disagreements.

The ONLY thing Hamas will get out of their recent terrorism is to temporarily delay normalization between Israel and Arab states.
 

basketcase

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Why wouldn't you ask the same of Israel?
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We know exactly what Israel has been thinking. Every time they move towards peace, they are subjected to violence from groups openly dedicated to the elimination of Israel's Jewish presence.

1937 Peel Commission, 1948 Partition, Camp David, Clinton parameters, evacuating Gaza and some WB settlements in 2005, Olmert's offer in 2008, ....
 
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basketcase

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Israel started off by cutting off all water, food and power to Gaza.
...
That tends to happen in response to another state declaring war by slaughtering a bunch of civilians. This is the only conflict in history where people think the people being attacked are responsible for feeding their attackers people.
 

basketcase

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October 7th exposed hate does have a home within the left.
Hate has a home everywhere.

What I find strange is the way that some progressives complain about authoritarianism and religious extremism but are happy to make excuses for Hamas or Iran.
 
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basketcase

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Pre-1967 does not matter because per my knowledge of the history, the settlements started post 1967. This is where the majority of stealing is attributed to. Atleast pre-67 there was contiguity in Palestinian lands, but today it is just a bunch of walled off enclaves that they cannot leave.
Some of the Settlements were Jewish towns established in the 1920s until the were ethnically cleansed by the Jordanian army and that includes the Old City of Jerusalem where Jews were a large group from before zionism was a thing. If people think that Palestinian descendants have a right to go to their family's former home, why shouldn't Jewish descendants be treated differently?

As I said, the borders are something that needs to be negotiated.
 
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