Indian residential schools

[TeeJay]

Oh and just for all the apoligists since I notice most dislike numbers:

3000 kids died (out of an estimated 150,000 kids), most of them via disease (and yes those same diseases wiped out adult Indian populations as well)
50% are dead from Tuberculous (which had no cure back in this time)

There is a world of fucking difference between these schools and slavery or German death camps

 

[bishop]

How about if natives paid taxes then maybe they would be entitled to some better infrastructure? Why exactly should we be on the hook for a generation of deadbeats?

PS and is there any documented cases of abuse in 1996? You do realize the actual abuse took place years ago, hence why they dig up corpses?
But then again, back in those days Indians raided British settlements and scalped people. So cry me a river.

Them not paying taxes was part of the treaty signed by a representative of canada and a representative of the natives, in return they give up most of their claim of land, it was a straight deal. If you do not like that deal then you can leave canada, if you are a canadian citizen then that is the baggage you need to carry because the land you are standing on was negotiated for.

 

[TeeJay]

Them not paying taxes was part of the treaty signed by a representative of canada and a representative of the natives, in return they give up most of their claim of land, it was a straight deal. If you do not like that deal then you can leave canada, if you are a canadian citizen then that is the baggage you need to carry because the land you are standing on was negotiated for.

Might want to educate yourself
Indians are tax cheats and CRA has called them out on it

http://publications.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/MR/mr130-e.htm

 

[bishop]

Oh shit some indians are scamming taxes, by all means please take away their kids.

 

[FAST]

Oh shit some indians are scamming taxes, by all means please take away their kids.

Nobody will take away their kids if they are tax cheats,...you are simply another idiot living in the past.

You are NOT helping their cause,...!!!


FAST

 

[Occasionally]

Personally, no matter how bad Indian people were treated, it sucks but you got to live with it and improve yourselves. You can't turn back time.

- My parents immigrated to Canada from a communist country
- Didn't know English
- Dirt poor
- Many family members in the homeland were killed
- Lousy education
- No skills
- Both were about 20 years old, in a new country and started from scratch
- While everyone else is rocking to Elvis Presley and watching Leafs/Habs rivalries, they are stuck learning English and working as waiters.

Dad went to school part time for ages while working shitty jobs. Mom took care of kids. No stupidity like boozing, drugs, crime or smoking. Dad got a good education and eventually lead to good jobs. Raised a family and everyone turned out pretty good.

Never mind being poor and renting a shitty place. They first lived renting someone's garage for a bit until they figured out what to do. A garage.

If my parents could do it, anyone can.

Good work ethic and not being an ass helps a lot. It's not a guarantee, but sure seems to help a person's situation.

I don't know exactly what the government perks are for Aboriginals, but it's something like payouts, no tax, no tuition, preference getting into university and whatever other perks. Sounds like they hit the jackpot to me financially. While every other person is swamped in student loans and working at McDonalds as a kid for pocket money, Aborignal kids have humongous life changing financial perks to start with. If any of them want to be idiots and blow it buying drugs or cars, that's their problem.

Don't blame other people or the government in this day and age. The financial payouts are there. It's up to each individual to save and spend how they wish.

 

[frankcastle]

The past was horrible.

The present still has problems. ....... poverty, high rates of incarceration, poor living conditions, native women at risk of ending up dead

So yeah the past is done with but the present is still pretty fucked up for many natives.

There are many things you personally had nothing to do with but that doesn't mean we can't be part of a solution. First step is to admit there is a problem.

 

[frankcastle]

Personally, no matter how bad Indian people were treated, it sucks but you got to live with it and improve yourselves. You can't turn back time.

- My parents immigrated to Canada from a communist country
- Didn't know English
- Dirt poor
- Many family members in the homeland were killed
- Lousy education
- No skills
- Both were about 20 years old, in a new country and started from scratch
- While everyone else is rocking to Elvis Presley and watching Leafs/Habs rivalries, they are stuck learning English and working as waiters.

Dad went to school part time for ages while working shitty jobs. Mom took care of kids. No stupidity like boozing, drugs, crime or smoking. Dad got a good education and eventually lead to good jobs. Raised a family and everyone turned out pretty good.

Never mind being poor and renting a shitty place. They first lived renting someone's garage for a bit until they figured out what to do. A garage.

If my parents could do it, anyone can.

Good work ethic and not being an ass helps a lot. It's not a guarantee, but sure seems to help a person's situation.

I don't know exactly what the government perks are for Aboriginals, but it's something like payouts, no tax, no tuition, preference getting into university and whatever other perks. Sounds like they hit the jackpot to me financially. While every other person is swamped in student loans and working at McDonalds as a kid for pocket money, Aborignal kids have humongous life changing financial perks to start with. If any of them want to be idiots and blow it buying drugs or cars, that's their problem.

Don't blame other people or the government in this day and age. The financial payouts are there. It's up to each individual to save and spend how they wish.

Your parents should be commended.

How many coaches get results by just telling their athletes to try harder. It is not so simple.

 

[Occasionally]

Whatever perks the government gives Natives perhaps should be reduced or taken away???? Just a thought.

I think some of the lax attitude comes from Natives knowing they get some easy street kind of stuff (money), so they sit back.

Take it away and perhaps many will smarten up knowing they have to do well in school and try to get jobs and pay taxes and such like everyone else.

My dirt poor parents didn't get tax exempt or get payouts or anything. They "probably" got some kind of normal social assistance, but even then I'm not sure how much nor if it really happened.

Add up all the issues my parents faced, and they basically said to themselves in their foreign language "Fuck, here we are free now. But shit, we better get our ass in gear! No messing around hubby. No messing around wifey. Let's be smart about it and do the best we can."

So if they can, why the heck can't so many other people?

 

[TeeJay]

Indians have huge amounts of drug and alcohol abuse
That is the primary cause of their failure

 

[Occasionally]

Your parents should be commended.

How many coaches get results by just telling their athletes to try harder. It is not so simple.

I hear ya.

A coach's tips can be good, or they can be crap. At the end of the day, the tips are still there. It's up to the individual to use their judgement to follow it or do their own thing. Sometimes an individual has to do their own thing instead of waiting for someone to do it for them.

Never the less, Natives do get various perks non-Natives don't get. Sounds like solid bonuses to me. Personally, I don't see why it's that hard to be responsible with cash. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the whole issue of spending vs saving. But some reason many Native people take those financial perks and blow their dough. To me, if someone needs guidance how to budget money they are probably past helping.

I've always been good with money, but it's not like I have hardcore accounting software or anything. All I basically do is pay off all my credit card debts, drive a reasonable car and at this stage of my life and job, try to ballpark saving about $15k a year in cash. That's not to say I have to save exactly $1,250 per month since spending can go up and down depending on trips and Xmas shopping, but as long as I save about that amount per year is my goal. Not hard.

When I came out of school with $20k loans and had my first real job, my goal was to pay for living on my own covering all costs and breaking even was my goal. Got a better job, now I can ballpark saving a few thousand a year. Got a better job.... a bit more a saving is doable etc....

That's why I mentioned in my other post, maybe if the government took away monetary perks, it may force people to learn budgeting.

Heck, even if was 20 years old and had a big wad of cash in bank account, I don't think I'd blow it. I'd probably pay off school as I go and buy a crap car leaving me with cash to spare. It's all about getting accustomed to money in and money out.

 

[Occasionally]

It's all too easy to make a certain "group" of people commit criminal offences more frequently. Take away everything they have and treat them like shit for a few generations. Take the children away from their parents to be beaten and abused. Throw those broken people back into the community. Pretend there is no ripple effect and that merely stopping residential schools makes it all instantly better. Don't forget to make sure that there is substandard healthcare, education and infrastructure in those places.Then be sure to make condescending little "tut-tut" noises at your newspaper when you read about recidivism, alcoholism and unemployment rates. Remember that you're not a racist, but....

I'm not Jewish, but considering all the crap Jewish people have got for 100s of years and even to this day, Jewish people always seem to forge ahead best they can. You don't see many Jewish people sitting around and committing crime.

When lots of Asian people came to Canada decades and decades back, a good portion didn't know English (or barely knew it), didn't have any great formal education, yet somehow many had the balls to say fuck it, I'll just open my own business. Many came to Canada for a better life because whatever country they came from was shitty. I'm not saying many of these grimy restaurants and convenience stores are AAA quality, but I've never had the balls to open my own business. Instead of sitting around, they somehow went through the business process and got stuff up and running, hiring people, wheeling and dealing with suppliers etc... And let's face it. Most of them at the time barely even know English.

Asian people are the only ethnicity I know where many 60 and 70 year olds would rather be pushing those metal carts at lunch or spooning rice for minimal pay, than sitting at home watching TV. I'm quite confident many other people of different ethnicities wouldn't bother with similar types of jobs as it's a waste of time or looks like a dumb job. But those old Asian ladies do it. That's work ethic.

Good work ethic and initiative can go far. No guarantee it will lead to success for every individual, but I'm 100% positive it will lead to more collective success than sitting around.

 

[SkyRider]

3000 kids died (out of an estimated 150,000 kids), most of them via disease (and yes those same diseases wiped out adult Indian populations as well)
50% are dead from Tuberculous (which had no cure back in this time)

Do we know the comparative numbers for white people? I know a lot of Irish perished from disease during the same time period.

 

[fuji]

Do we know the comparative numbers for white people? I know a lot of Irish perished from disease during the same time period.

I will bet that sick children cared for by a loving family have a much higher survival rate than children "cared" for by a government bureaucracy. I bet children from loving families are kept in better conditions, are hardier and healthier before they get a serious illness, and get better care earlier when they get ill.

 

[Ironhead]

I am a Son of the First Nation and every time I need a bit of a chuckle I visit this thread and read all the experts who know 'how it was', and what happened in the past and mostly how easy it is to fix.
I like the stories of two white Euros that come here 'and make it'.

I own a couple cars, a house and in my life have never received a gov't welfare cheque. Now I drink about what an average Canadian would, if that much.
None of my relatives have ever received anything but an occasional unemployment cheque and as far as fully funded education goes one must qualify for that in that they must provide set goals in what they want to do once the education comes to an end ... and I am not sure about the 'fully funded' part ... one thing I can say is it is not as easy as some here make it sound. We do not just walk into any gov't institution and demand/get money.
I pay taxes, but I do not live on a reserve, but we all pay GST.

 

[Occasionally]

I am a Son of the First Nation and every time I need a bit of a chuckle I visit this thread and read all the experts who know 'how it was', and what happened in the past and mostly how easy it is to fix.
I like the stories of two white Euros that come here 'and make it'.

I own a couple cars, a house and in my life have never received a gov't welfare cheque. Now I drink about what an average Canadian would, if that much.
None of my relatives have ever received anything but an occasional unemployment cheque and as far as fully funded education goes one must qualify for that in that they must provide set goals in what they want to do once the education comes to an end ... and I am not sure about the 'fully funded' part ... one thing I can say is it is not as easy as some here make it sound. We do not just walk into any gov't institution and demand/get money.
I pay taxes, but I do not live on a reserve, but we all pay GST.

Two white Euros?

Multiply that by 1,000s and 1,000s (probably millions around the world) whose family trees got wiped out by WW1 and WW2.

No doubt there is a difference between living on and off a reserve, as well as which tribe someone is part of. But also no doubt, Natives gets perks other people don't. But don't act like it's a non-issue. Getting funded for school requires setting goals? Wow, seems hard. Non-Natives who get funded are the top scholars or athletes from high school, which is maybe 1 out of every 500(?) who gets lucky enough to get scholarship freebies. The rest have big student loans.

So the tip is: The government hands out numerous perks, which really comes from tax revenue from the rest of the country. So don't waste it.

People donate money all the time to help causes. Companies donate too. The government donates to various causes. The point is for the money to be given to individuals or communities to help and improve things. But it is also their choice to utilize assistance responsibly. That's the knock. It's like people give some pocket change to something asking for help on the street. Sounds fine. Everyone has some coins in their pocket. But what point is their to giving a few bucks if the guy takes the money and buys beer or cigarettes? Seems like a waste to me. The only gainer is the person selling the product and making some profit off it as a business owner. The person in actual need just blew it on something that has no value.

As I said earlier, if foreigners can come to Canada with little language skills, little technical skills, and little education, how come immigrants from the 50s, 60s and 70s landed in Canada and over time built up families and businesses?

Never mind, immigrants from 50 years ago. You stated you've done pretty well yourself with insignificant government help. So please tell us your opinion and experience why you've done pretty well, while other Natives have issues.... even though there seems to be other tribes who surely get better government help than you but still in trouble.

 

[SkyRider]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/early...called-2nd-worst-in-developed-world-1.1314423

 

[TeeJay]

I will bet that sick children cared for by a loving family have a much higher survival rate than children "cared" for by a government bureaucracy. I bet children from loving families are kept in better conditions, are hardier and healthier before they get a serious illness, and get better care earlier when they get ill.

You obviously know as much about Ireland as Indians
Even in North America the Irish were forced to live in terrible conditions and were at best second class

Almost as funny as your previous post about how well blacks were looked after during the slavery era

 

[Ironhead]

Two white Euros?

Multiply that by 1,000s and 1,000s (probably millions around the world) whose family trees got wiped out by WW1 and WW2.

No doubt there is a difference between living on and off a reserve, as well as which tribe someone is part of. But also no doubt, Natives gets perks other people don't. But don't act like it's a non-issue. Getting funded for school requires setting goals? Wow, seems hard. Non-Natives who get funded are the top scholars or athletes from high school, which is maybe 1 out of every 500(?) who gets lucky enough to get scholarship freebies. The rest have big student loans.

So the tip is: The government hands out numerous perks, which really comes from tax revenue from the rest of the country. So don't waste it.

People donate money all the time to help causes. Companies donate too. The government donates to various causes. The point is for the money to be given to individuals or communities to help and improve things. But it is also their choice to utilize assistance responsibly. That's the knock. It's like people give some pocket change to something asking for help on the street. Sounds fine. Everyone has some coins in their pocket. But what point is their to giving a few bucks if the guy takes the money and buys beer or cigarettes? Seems like a waste to me. The only gainer is the person selling the product and making some profit off it as a business owner. The person in actual need just blew it on something that has no value.

As I said earlier, if foreigners can come to Canada with little language skills, little technical skills, and little education, how come immigrants from the 50s, 60s and 70s landed in Canada and over time built up families and businesses?

Never mind, immigrants from 50 years ago. You stated you've done pretty well yourself with insignificant government help. So please tell us your opinion and experience why you've done pretty well, while other Natives have issues.... even though there seems to be other tribes who surely get better government help than you but still in trouble.

Still do not know where you get your information but we do not get perks. You do not want the 'perks' you think we get when it goes with the negative you know zero about.
As for full paid school, you make it sound like each and every kid just says 'gimmie' and the money magically is there for all. That is not even close to the truth ... although it appears you want to believe that.
I know FROM PERSONAL EXPIERNCE THAT NOT EVERYONE GETS A FREE EDUCATION.
Pay particular attention to the "PERSONAL EXPIERNCE" part.
I was born and raised in this city, but I am a full member of my Reserve and I can tell you, see I have relatives who do live, born and raised on the Reserve, who do not get the 'perks' you think we get.

 

[Frankfooter]

Still do not know where you get your information but we do not get perks. You do not want the 'perks' you think we get when it goes with the negative you know zero about.
As for full paid school, you make it sound like each and every kid just says 'gimmie' and the money magically is there for all. That is not even close to the truth ... although it appears you want to believe that.
I know FROM PERSONAL EXPIERNCE THAT NOT EVERYONE GETS A FREE EDUCATION.
Pay particular attention to the "PERSONAL EXPIERNCE" part.
I was born and raised in this city, but I am a full member of my Reserve and I can tell you, see I have relatives who do live, born and raised on the Reserve, who do not get the 'perks' you think we get.

I heard AFN chief Perry Bellegarde on CBC today, smart and articulate man, he pointed out that funding for education for natives is only about half or 2/3's what it is for the rest of the country, that was one of the 94 recommendations to be fixed from the Truth and Reconciliation report. Water and housing are major issues as well, there are probably pockets that are well funded from resources around them, but for the most part the rez's aren't pockets of wealth.