If ICU beds run out, should vaccinated individuals get priority?

[rhuarc29]

What would you do if someone close to you in your family wouldn't want to be vaccinated and end up at the icu?

I would fight for them to get an ICU bed of course. Because I love them. We're all ideological hypocrites when it comes to family. Doesn't mean prioritization is the wrong call.

To say it's heartless to prioritize people who made the choice of protecting others, and who can't get an ICU bed for a non-COVID emergency because others chose not to, isn't fair IMO. Cancer patients are being delayed for treatment. Gunshot victims are being treated in the hallways. People suffer as they aren't able to get the surgeries they desperately need, many risking death. And healthcare staff are overwhelmed.

I 100% agree with people making their own choice on vaccines. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't suffer the consequences of said choice.

With all that said, I'd personally answer a tentative "no" to my own poll. I believe strongly in personal responsibility, but also realize that humans err, and I'm not sure the cost of said error should be their lives.

 

[lomotil]

Doctors can and do triage patients based on the chance of survival but not on whether the patient choose to get vaccinated, takes illegal drugs, rides a motorcycle without a helmet etc, smokes, etc. . Patient ignorance or stupidity is not an official criteria to deny treatment but it might be a political one. The twist and turns of this pandemic are far from over and the double vaccinated are not privileged although they did the wise and responsible thing. The future appears to be increasingly murky.

 

[Valcazar]

Triage by likelihood of survival, and first come first serve.
Isn't that how it has always been?

 

[basketcase]

...
These age groups comprise about 80% of all covid ICU stays. They've told us vaccination reduces serious hospitalization by 95%. If these figures are to believed, there is no possible way we should ever come close to shortages of ICU beds in the province, right?
...

Glad you finally figured out the point of vaccines.

So yes, that 10-12% of those age groups that aren't vaccinated make up 94% of ICU cases.

 

[basketcase]

Delta. (Drops Mic)

Despite what headlines might contain, vaccines still seem to be very effective at preventing serious cases from delta.

 

[basketcase]

Doctors can and do triage patients based on the chance of survival but not on whether the patient choose to get vaccinated, takes illegal drugs, rides a motorcycle without a helmet etc, smokes, etc. . Patient ignorance or stupidity is not an official criteria to deny treatment but it might be a political one. The twist and turns of this pandemic are far from over and the double vaccinated are not privileged although they did the wise and responsible thing. The future appears to be increasingly murky.

But data seems to indicate vaccination improves chances of survival.

 

[kstanb]

if anything, fully vaccinated people will have milder symptoms and better chances of survival, hence unvaccinated will get more ICUs priority

as already said, doctors have triage protocols, and patience stupidity is not on the criteria

 

[lomotil]

But data seems to indicate vaccination improves chances of survival.

Yes vaccines, at least for the three given in Canada in a double dose, the data seems to suggest a significantly greater ”survival “ than for the unvaccinated or single vaccinated at this time for Covid-19 and offsprings and I have no arguments there. Survival or deferred death is great statistically but as I have mentioned before “ Long Covid-19” is associated with debilitating symptoms including significant neurological and psychological symptoms (impotence common) in about a third of those who survived Covid-19 and increasingly with the Delta variant in those double vaccinated individuals who got Covid-19 in what is called a “ breakthrough “ infection.. The Lamba and Mu variants loom and will likely overwhelm us with 5th and 6th waves and this only N. Americ, which continues to be very political and local whereas the virus is a globetrotter equal opportunity motherfucker that has a good amount of variants to come yet.

 

[seagerbuzz]

No. They already got the vaccine so why should they get an ICU bed too.

 

[seagerbuzz]

Just stop and get your vaccine as responsible people in society do. We don't need your nonsense and bullshit all in the hopes of trying to justify your selfishness and arrogance.

Just fuck off already.

 

[seagerbuzz]

There's a very real possibility of ICU beds running out. There already has been localized shortages and, from what I've seen so far, there has been no such prioritization.
My question is: should there be?

No need to worry. We can just put up a temporary field hospital that will never get used again.

 

[squeezer]

Just fuck off already.

Whoa, dude, this Sept 22nd deadline really has you in a grumpy mood. It's ok, being an outcast isn't the end of the world. Cheer up Tj and I hope you can cook and work out in your basement. Don't worry, you can watch sporting events on your big screen TV. It's all good dude, it will be ok.

 

[seagerbuzz]

Whoa, dude, this Sept 22nd deadline really has you in a grumpy mood. It's ok, being an outcast isn't the end of the world. Cheer up Tj and I hope you can cook and work out in your basement. Don't worry, you can watch sporting events on your big screen TV. It's all good dude, it will be ok.

I'm not an outcast. I socialize plenty everyday unlike you who checks his Pfixer and Moderna stocks by the minute.

 

[squeezer]

I'm not an outcast. I socialize plenty everyday unlike you who checks his Pfixer and Moderna stocks by the minute.

Fuck, I'm making a killing!

PS, I don't believe you're socializing because based on your posts, you're not exactly the type of guy most want to be around. Nevertheless, if I'm wrong and you at the moment are a social buzzard butterfly, you will have to do it within your 4 walls because going out will not be an option in a few weeks. Enjoy your outcast lifestyle.

 

[Jubee]

Whoa, dude, this Sept 22nd deadline really has you in a grumpy mood. It's ok, being an outcast isn't the end of the world. Cheer up Tj and I hope you can cook and work out in your basement. Don't worry, you can watch sporting events on your big screen TV. It's all good dude, it will be ok.

lol

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1434873256188649475

I went to the LSU/UCLA game Saturday. Had to have your mask on as you went through security...then you put it away for the next 4 hours along w/40,000 of your friends who spent $200 each on beer, hot dogs, chips, & pizza...for their health. So stupid.

 

[shack]

if anything, fully vaccinated people will have milder symptoms and better chances of survival, hence unvaccinated will get more ICUs priority

Faulty logic.

They are not putting somebody in ICU if they have milder symptoms even if lots of beds are available. That is a given. But if a vaxxed has severe symptoms and a non-vaxxed has severe symptoms, the severity of their cases are similar and the vaxxed should get the bed because they acted responsibly. That is what getting priority means.

You're welcome.

 

[kstanb]

if both have severe symptoms, triage, not personal responsibility, will and should decide who gets it

 

[spacyfoil]

There's a very real possibility of ICU beds running out. There already has been localized shortages and, from what I've seen so far, there has been no such prioritization.
My question is: should there be?

Dataset - Ontario Data Catalogue

covid-19.ontario.ca

Ontario Sept 9 Stats ICU (Covid-2)

Unvaccinated. 113
Partially Vaccinated. 7
Vaccinated 8

 

[sp free]

They’ll get priority since the vaxxed will be the ones getting the most sick, as we are seeing in Israel.

 

[spacyfoil]

They’ll get priority since the vaxxed will be the ones getting the most sick, as we are seeing in Israel.

Be kind and quote a link please.