Doctors go to school 5-10 years to get educated. You expect us to do a search for an hour or 2 and be considered informed?
Have you got your flu shot yet?
- Thread starter probyn
- Start date
Well apparently you are informed because a doctor told you so.
I think you are missing the point.
This is an interesting topic
I think there are certain people with a personality and beliefs that make them adversary to authority and prone to conspiracies, those people often take issue with a collective telling them what to do whether it be government or the medical society. The medical literature is based on rigorous science through a peer reviewed processes. The practitioners each individually appraise the evidence and literature to counsel their patient. The idea that the whole scientific process and all the medical professionals whome have dedicated their entire life to their profession are compromised just to make a few buks on vaccines to me is absurd. Of course pharma has influence and there are biases in the evidence but the medical society as a whole are hard bunch to convince and do factor in outside influences on evidence, they rarely all agree to something to this extent unless there was merit behind it. Of course there exists some with differing opinions and anectodes and those are what some people try to cling on to justify their beliefs.
At the end of the day, if your a competent adult you have every right to make decisions about your own health and no one can or should force anyone to do anything. All they can do is provide their professional counsel and if someone does not agree and thinks the doctors are out to get em to get 4 dollars from the vaccine then thats their right and should be respected. The issue now becomes complicated when the decision of that person is not just limited to them and impacts the society. This is the case with herd immunity from vaccines. That opens a whole bag of worms which is subjective and philosophical. Do we violate someones autonomy to protect the group as a whole? Autonomy vs beneficence. I dont know.
I think there are certain people with a personality and beliefs that make them adversary to authority and prone to conspiracies, those people often take issue with a collective telling them what to do whether it be government or the medical society. The medical literature is based on rigorous science through a peer reviewed processes. The practitioners each individually appraise the evidence and literature to counsel their patient. The idea that the whole scientific process and all the medical professionals whome have dedicated their entire life to their profession are compromised just to make a few buks on vaccines to me is absurd. Of course pharma has influence and there are biases in the evidence but the medical society as a whole are hard bunch to convince and do factor in outside influences on evidence, they rarely all agree to something to this extent unless there was merit behind it. Of course there exists some with differing opinions and anectodes and those are what some people try to cling on to justify their beliefs.
At the end of the day, if your a competent adult you have every right to make decisions about your own health and no one can or should force anyone to do anything. All they can do is provide their professional counsel and if someone does not agree and thinks the doctors are out to get em to get 4 dollars from the vaccine then thats their right and should be respected. The issue now becomes complicated when the decision of that person is not just limited to them and impacts the society. This is the case with herd immunity from vaccines. That opens a whole bag of worms which is subjective and philosophical. Do we violate someones autonomy to protect the group as a whole? Autonomy vs beneficence. I dont know.
YOU are missing the point. The doctor is my TRUSTED EXPERT. He knows more than I ever could, we have (hopefully) developed a rapport and I believe that he has my best interest at heart.
It seems that you do not trust anybody.
I got a flu shot this morning. I trust my doctor on this. She knows more about this than I do. I could read a few articles on the internet but that would not make me an expert.
You are correct. You simply cannot develop a disease from the dead viruses.
Of course, even after . getting vaccinated, you can still suffer from an influenza infection if your body didn't fully develop a satisfactory immune response to that strain, and you get exposed to that (or another) strain in the wild (subway, shaking hands with a friend etc). But the vaccination did not cause or allow the infection to take hold, nor did it "weaken" your immune system.
It's understandable that you feel this way based on your personal experience Mr. Lover.
Are you sure you got influenza and not a "cold" (rhinovirus) or just felt run down? Influenza is a pretty serious sickness and comes with fever, chills and shivers, STRONG headache and it kicks the shit out of you for weeks after the strong symptoms go away. A lot of people say they got the flu, when it is in fact a really bad rhinovirus infection.
Very well said. Also explains why their opinions only get stronger the more others try to convince them otherwise.
What makes you think that I have not looked at both sides?
I have. And I do. And I love to question my own beliefs. I love when I get new information. Especially when it changes my mind. Recognizing I'm wrong is the biggest ego boost I feel!
And yes, I seek expert advice and direction on many things in life. Especially taxes, medicine and getting my hair cut.
Aside from the source of the "arguments" being highly educated people of specific science on one side, and anti-authourity types who put more effort into defending their argument than the biology itself, I find the broadly observable results and the scientific premise more compelling.
There are passengers who become contrarian experts whenever the pilot decides not to take off into forecast freezing rain or thunderstorms that bitch and moan because they are going to miss their bus to the Cuban All You Can Drink resort. I'll defer to the expertise of the trained and experienced pilot and the Air regs that prohibit flight into such conditions.
I am not anti Vax. Ive traveled alot and have had plenty of booster shots, however I wont get a flu shot because there are so many different strains of flu and most of the time the shot only covers a minority percentage. I haven't had the flu in over twenty years.
So why not get the protection from those strains included in the current year's vaccine?
What is the downside?
If you`ve ever had influenza for real, not a cold or other minor respiratory malaise, that should be sufficient to influence your decision. I dealt with it about 20 years ago and it kicked my ass..off work for 6 weeks and several more weeks of fighting off pneumonia while back to work. Like a.50 cal. machine gun, it`s nothing to fuck about with.
Exactly!
I had the real flu about 20 years ago and it was hell. High fever, chills like you would freeze to death, mild hallucinations, and weakness like I have never before or since experienced. I don't recsall how long it took me to recover but I do recall that I did not do any winter sports nor go south on vacation that winter. I was just beat.
Even with free vaccinations "Flu causes about 12,200 hospitalizations and 3,500 deaths in Canada each year."
https://www.ontario.ca/page/flu-facts
For those grizzled TERB vets who are getting older and think they are not at risk because they have never had the flu, and even if you get it... no big deal. You might want to re-think this strategy if you have other health issues.
Complications from the flu can include serious conditions, like pneumonia or heart attacks and, in some cases, death
Some people are more vulnerable to complications and hospitalization from the flu:
-people 65 years old and older, because their immune systems are weaker and they are more likely to have an underlying condition that increases their risk
-people with underlying health conditions, such as asthma, heart disease or diabetes
Interestingly, those at higher risk are actually advised to consider the High Dose vaccine
"65 and older
For the 2019/2020 season, if you're 65 and older, there are two different flu shots available – standard dose and high-dose.
Both shots are effective – do not delay getting vaccinated. Your doctor or nurse practitioner can answer any questions you might have.
To get the standard-dose vaccine, which protects against 4 strains of flu virus:
- visit a doctor or nurse practitioner
- contact your local public health unit
- visit a participating pharmacy
To get the high-dose vaccine, (also called "Fluzone® HighDose"), which protects against 3 strains of flu virus, but in higher doses:
- visit a doctor or nurse practitioner
- contact your local public health unit
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