Ghadafi is dead!

[Pro007]

U.S.A Lost very loyal fried in Lybia

For some twenty years Ghaddafi has changed position from anti USA to become a very dear and reliable friend of USA, Israel and the west. Ghadafi regime worked closley with the CIA and the mousad, he provided them information and valuable inteligence to capture lybians and others in the region. He accepted prisoners from the bush administration to hail tourture on them, he provided great protection to israel and the west when he put down every opponent to the west and israel in lybia. He provided great deal of help when it came to put some cash on the table for several reason, even latley he was negotiating with nato to how much it will cost him to just stay in power. He was dear friend to Italy, france and England even last year he was highly admired by Tony blair and david cameron and even condie rice said to have slept with one of his sons or possibly with him. He played the advocate and sponsor for the west policies in africa, he stood firm again the expansion of china and russia in africa in favour of USA and the west, he encouraged south soudan to split and go indie taking the oil wealth of soudan with them. he was great player in protecting the intersts of the west, Israel and USA. He took good lesson from the saudies, his sons including Saif were dwelling and playing on the tables of the west all the time day and night. Through fiendship with turky, italy, france, UK he managed to reach to every leader in the west and he befriended members of the israeli kenesset and members of the government as well. He ended his support to the palestinians since over 15 years ago, no money no political support for them just to please the USA. He even stopped his nukes program and ended his threats to israel. He evern paid for the lockerby victims, he stood firm against iran until they day of his death, he prohibited any chia muslim or iranian person to enter lybia, he cut his ties with iran indefinitly to please USA.

Only, just 9 months ago he was under the impression that he is well protected after what all he done to the west and what he is willing to further do, but who knows when the plitical tsunami in real world hit, it takes everything in its path with no regard to the good or bad record of a tyran been established.

Sadam was a great friend to USA and Isarel in the Eighties, he fought iran on their behalf for 8 years, he armed the christian groups in lebanon to fight the palestinians and ultimatley fighting syria in lebanon as wel. but in the 90's he thought he is the spoiled boy of USA. But he was wrong. He could not see that the west and the USA see their interests and benefits in any arabic leader and how he can serve them best, USA and the west don't give a dam over arabic people and their progress. I hope the remaining tyrant in the region learn a lesson that the USA is not a friend of the Arabic people, they are only friendly to them as long as the tyrant they put to lead them is very loyal to the American and zionist agenda in the world and the region and serve their causes only.

In final words USA and the west should be mourning Ghadafi today not celebrating his departure, he will leave a great vacume in the middile east politics same as his friends mubarak and Bin Ali done to the west when they took off, USA and israel will be lost without him after they were lost when mubark and bin Ali left, its just like tiple jeoperdy for USA foreign policy and intelegence community and work that been achieved in last 20 years and costed billions of dollars. One more tyrant on is way which is the yeman dictator who still think that USA can protect him and keep him in power, the coming days will tell us on this one.


Pro007

 

[GPIDEAL]

So he was captured but died in a crossfire between his captors and his loyalists. So his loyalists accidentally shot their leader, or did his captors shoot him just in case they failed?

 

[Pro007]

U.S.A Lost very loyal fried in Lybia

For some twenty years Ghaddafi has changed position from anti USA to become a very dear and reliable friend of USA, Israel and the west. Ghadafi regime worked closley with the CIA and the mousad, he provided them information and valuable inteligence to capture lybians and others in the region. He accepted prisoners from the bush administration to hail tourture on them, he provided great protection to israel and the west when he put down every opponent to the west and israel in lybia. He provided great deal of help when it came to put some cash on the table for several reason, even latley he was negotiating with nato to how much it will cost him to just stay in power. He was dear friend to Italy, france and England even last year he was highly admired by Tony blair and david cameron and even condie rice said to have slept with one of his sons or possibly with him. He played the advocate and sponsor for the west policies in africa, he stood firm again the expansion of china and russia in africa in favour of USA and the west, he encouraged south soudan to split and go indie taking the oil wealth of soudan with them. he was great player in protecting the intersts of the west, Israel and USA. He took good lesson from the saudies, his sons including Saif were dwelling and playing on the tables of the west all the time day and night. Through fiendship with turky, italy, france, UK he managed to reach to every leader in the west and he befriended members of the israeli kenesset and members of the government as well. He ended his support to the palestinians since over 15 years ago, no money no political support for them just to please the USA. He even stopped his nukes program and ended his threats to israel. He evern paid for the lockerby victims, he stood firm against iran until they day of his death, he prohibited any chia muslim or iranian person to enter lybia, he cut his ties with iran indefinitly to please USA.

Only, just 9 months ago he was under the impression that he is well protected after what all he done to the west and what he is willing to further do, but who knows when the plitical tsunami in real world hit, it takes everything in its path with no regard to the good or bad record of a tyran been established.

Sadam was a great friend to USA and Isarel in the Eighties, he fought iran on their behalf for 8 years, he armed the christian groups in lebanon to fight the palestinians and ultimatley fighting syria in lebanon as wel. but in the 90's he thought he is the spoiled boy of USA. But he was wrong. He could not see that the west and the USA see their interests and benefits in any arabic leader and how he can serve them best, USA and the west don't give a dam over arabic people and their progress. I hope the remaining tyrant in the region learn a lesson that the USA is not a friend of the Arabic people, they are only friendly to them as long as the tyrant they put to lead them is very loyal to the American and zionist agenda in the world and the region and serve their causes only.

In final words USA and the west should be mourning Ghadafi today not celebrating his departure, he will leave a great vacume in the middile east politics same as his friends mubarak and Bin Ali done to the west when they took off, USA and israel will be lost without him after they were lost when mubark and bin Ali left, its just like tiple jeoperdy for USA foreign policy and intelegence community and work that been achieved in last 20 years and costed billions of dollars. One more tyrant on is way which is the yeman dictator who still think that USA can protect him and keep him in power, the coming days will tell us on this one.


Pro007

 

[GPIDEAL]

For some twenty years Ghaddafi has changed position from anti USA to become a very dear and reliable friend of USA, Israel and the west. Ghadafi regime worked closley with the CIA and the mousad, he provided them information and valuable inteligence to capture lybians and others in the region. He accepted prisoners from the bush administration to hail tourture on them, he provided great protection to israel and the west when he put down every opponent to the west and israel in lybia. He provided great deal of help when it came to put some cash on the table for several reason, even latley he was negotiating with nato to how much it will cost him to just stay in power. He was dear friend to Italy, france and England even last year he was highly admired by Tony blair and david cameron and even condie rice said to have slept with one of his sons or possibly with him. He played the advocate and sponsor for the west policies in africa, he stood firm again the expansion of china and russia in africa in favour of USA and the west, he encouraged south soudan to split and go indie taking the oil wealth of soudan with them. he was great player in protecting the intersts of the west, Israel and USA. He took good lesson from the saudies, his sons including Saif were dwelling and playing on the tables of the west all the time day and night. Through fiendship with turky, italy, france, UK he managed to reach to every leader in the west and he befriended members of the israeli kenesset and members of the government as well. He ended his support to the palestinians since over 15 years ago, no money no political support for them just to please the USA. He even stopped his nukes program and ended his threats to israel. He evern paid for the lockerby victims, he stood firm against iran until they day of his death, he prohibited any chia muslim or iranian person to enter lybia, he cut his ties with iran indefinitly to please USA.

Only, just 9 months ago he was under the impression that he is well protected after what all he done to the west and what he is willing to further do, but who knows when the plitical tsunami in real world hit, it takes everything in its path with no regard to the good or bad record of a tyran been established.

Sadam was a great friend to USA and Isarel in the Eighties, he fought iran on their behalf for 8 years, he armed the christian groups in lebanon to fight the palestinians and ultimatley fighting syria in lebanon as wel. but in the 90's he thought he is the spoiled boy of USA. But he was wrong. He could not see that the west and the USA see their interests and benefits in any arabic leader and how he can serve them best, USA and the west don't give a dam over arabic people and their progress. I hope the remaining tyrant in the region learn a lesson that the USA is not a friend of the Arabic people, they are only friendly to them as long as the tyrant they put to lead them is very loyal to the American and zionist agenda in the world and the region and serve their causes only.

In final words USA and the west should be mourning Ghadafi today not celebrating his departure, he will leave a great vacume in the middile east politics same as his friends mubarak and Bin Ali done to the west when they took off, USA and israel will be lost without him after they were lost when mubark and bin Ali left, its just like tiple jeoperdy for USA foreign policy and intelegence community and work that been achieved in last 20 years and costed billions of dollars. One more tyrant on is way which is the yeman dictator who still think that USA can protect him and keep him in power, the coming days will tell us on this one.

Pro007

I don't know about a great friend to the USA in the 80s. Didn't President Reagan almost kill Ghadaffi back in the mid 80s when he launched that airstrike against him?

As for assisting the CIA, perhaps Ghadaffi had no choice behind closed doors as he didn't want to rock the boat to ensure his tyrannical regime, but the U.S. Government or the CIA couldn't guarantee his safety or stand by him openly, especially if the people revolt.

 

[fuji]

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

[fuji]

...nonsense...

A democratic Muslim country will probably do and say things that Israel and the US won't like. They won't be able to buy them off the way they bought off people like Mubarek.

No matter. It's still better for both Israel and the United States to have a democratic Muslim country in the Middle East.

First, it establishes a dialogue with the actual Arab people, through their true representatives, who will speak what they really think. This dialogue may sometimes be uncomfortable, but it is only through such dialogue that long-term, lasting peace will be achieved. It's only through this process that the Arab peoples themselves will eventually come to terms with Israel and reach an accommodation.

Second, it will end the practice of dictators in the Middle East demonizing Israel to distract attention from their own failures. Much of the anti-Israeli sentiment in the Middle East stems from dictators who blamed Israel for everything and anything in order to deflect attention from their own failed policies. Democratically elected governments should be more pragmatic, and deal with Israel in terms of mutual benefit. They will be held to account for their own policies, and have less opportunity to use propaganda to blame others. So this should be good.

Third, it's a reality that democracies hardly ever go to war with one another. Ordinary people don't like war. They prefer diplomatic solutions to military ones, and generally only favour military solutions when they have been persuaded that all reasonable diplomatic solutions have been exhausted. So the relationship between Israel and Arab countries should at least become a debate, an argument, with words being thrown back and forth, rather than bullets and bombs.

In short democracies are far more grounded in pragmatic reality than dictatorships are, they have more sincere diplomatic relationships, that strive to get to the issues people really care about. An open, honest, sincere dialogue between Arab countries and Israelis can only be a good thing in the long run, even if it may sometimes be uncomfortable.

 

[Pro007]

The Eighties

Saddam was a good friend to USA in the Eighties not Ghaddafi, Ronnie boy rumsfeld sold him the poison gas to gas the iranians.

Pro007.

 

[Pro007]

Democracy in the middile east

Since what is know to be the arabic khilafat and its disappearance back almost 1000 years ago, arabic countries never been so in love with the democratic system the west and the USA like to impose on them, Democray in the middile east or in the muslim world clearly means, CIVIL WAR.

I can name few middile eastern and muslim countries who adopted democracy which plunged into deadly civil war and civil unrest and kept its people fighting among them indefinitly.

For what I know here is the list.

Lebanon
Iraq
egypt
Pakistan
Afghanistan
turky
and many more i can't remember

In other words democracy is not the right pill for the arabs and muslims and it does not hold water when it comes to tradtions and relegion.

Pro007

 

[GPIDEAL]

Saddam was a good friend to USA in the Eighties not Ghaddafi, Ronnie boy rumsfeld sold him the poison gas to gas the iranians.

Pro007.

My apologies Pro007. I had a brain cramp. In retrospect, what Bush did was wrong. He should've tried to keep Sadam on the West's side because Iran is worse. Libya seemed to do an about face after the 80s as far as their conduct (or Ghadaffi's conduct), but the West has no choice but to respect the will of the people in ousting him.

 

[GPIDEAL]

Since what is know to be the arabic khilafat and its disappearance back almost 1000 years ago, arabic countries never been so in love with the democratic system the west and the USA like to impose on them, Democray in the middile east or in the muslim world clearly means, CIVIL WAR.

I can name few middile eastern and muslim countries who adopted democracy which plunged into deadly civil war and civil unrest and kept its people fighting among them indefinitly.

For what I know here is the list.

Lebanon
Iraq
egypt
Pakistan
Afghanistan
turky
and many more i can't remember

In other words democracy is not the right pill for the arabs and muslims and it does not hold water when it comes to tradtions and relegion.

Pro007

I think many Arabs/Muslims would like democracy, but there are many who don't - particularly those who are powerful. It definitely will take time, especially due to their culture and religion as you said.

 

[blackrock13]

now which replacement dictator will the u.s. install to keep the muslims in line and keep the oil flowing?

Would you mind telling us what dictator the U.S. installed in the Arab World in the first place?

They might not have "installed" them , but they certainly supported and help them maintain power.
Here is a vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzVAZS4uIc4

Tippy tap, tippy tap, back peal, quick.

You make it sound like it was unique to the US, which it's not.

 

[Asterix]

I think this gives credence to Preident Obama's approach. There were some who thought he should have gone all in, and there were some who thought he shouldn't have been involved at all. I think he chose the correct path and it worked. Now it is up to the Libyan people.

 

[nottyboi]

We shall see where this leads. Jimmy Carter tried the same thing with Iran.. the Shah got kicked out.. but the scum that took over are even worse!!!!

 

[GPIDEAL]

We shall see where this leads. Jimmy Carter tried the same thing with Iran.. the Shah got kicked out.. but the scum that took over are even worse!!!!

Ah but worse for who?

[Playing DA here but I will agree with you as a Westerner]

 

[Pro007]

Yes the people of lybia have all the right to do what fit them best,

Seeing the west and the USA cheering up for thes departure of Ghaddafi, specially Hillary clinton and Obama with wide smiles on their faces, i can't understand what these smiles are for, is it for OIL revenues that about to come to them or the rebuilding efforts same as they did with rebuilding Iraq and afghanistan.

I heared the other day that Canada only spent over 11 Bn in Afghanistan, almost 10 BN went to the army services and canadian troops protection and equipment, while only 1 BN went to rebuild afghanistan which been looted by its politicians, only a fraction of it reached afghanies people who still to his day live in extreme poverty.

Will Corporate america and westen corporations rip off lybia same as they ripped off Iraq and afghanistan. While the western troops preparing to leave afghanistan, the cost of maintaining security in afghanistan after these troops leave will be over 5 BN a year money afghan people or government don't have, is that worth bringing democracy to afghanistan, unless its all fraudulent to keep karzai in power and turn him into another dictator appointed of the USA and its cronies.

Not mentioning the billions of oil revenues looted from Iraq by the same gangsters who cheered up for the departure of Ghaddafi. If rebuilding poor afganistan cost billions and billions, i wonder how much is the cost to re-build lybia now, i will be glad to see that happening, I love lybian people and I know Ghaddafi is one of the worst tyrants ever ruled an arab country, i hope lybian people will be better off without him.

Pro007

 

[sleazure]

Saddam was a good friend to USA in the Eighties not Ghaddafi, Ronnie boy rumsfeld sold him the poison gas to gas the iranians.

Pro007.

Yep, not so long since Qadafi was Dubya's new BFF.

Stuff like this has to make you wonder whether it's more dangerous to be America's ally or America's enemy. I'd say he was better off in the enemy camp.

Will of the people? Maybe I'm too suspicious and cynical, but I predict that when they finally unseal the files in 50 years we'll learn that the SAS and the French got the ball rolling with the help of a few agents provocateurs.

 

[alexmst]

For sure life was not going to be pleasant for them if captured, I don't think the NTC was offering anybody amnesty. The guys who stayed on I think are mostly the ones for whom surrender was not an option, they were dead either way in other words: Death by hanging after a humiliating trial, or fight to the death with a chance of possibly escaping to some other country.

Yes, that is true, much as it was for the Nordland division in Berlin in April, 1945 when the Soviets were closing in.

Now media reports are saying the Col wasn't killed in the crossfire but was shot in the head by a mob of rebels, despite the rebels being under orders to take him alive. Basically he appears to have been wounded in the airstrike, then he sought cover with three bodyguards, then the rebels moved in, killed the bodyguards, roughed up the Col (think of a certain scene in Blackhawk Down to get the idea), then shot him. The other story is that they were moving him alive to another location after beating him up when crossfire got him. I don't know which version is correct, but he certainly wasn't living in a sewer pipe - his guards put him there for a few minutes to keep him safe after a NATO airstike.

All in all, the Col put up a good fight during the past few months. He didn't flee the country, remained at the head of his armed forces in a command bunker, and wouldn't surrender. Of course in April 1945 Hitler, in a similar dire position, decided to shoot himself rather than try to break out of Berlin. Had he tried, he most likely would have been captured and killed by the Red Army, perhaps in a way similar to what happened to the Col.

The Col thought he could break out to another location outside Sirte, so did not shoot himself in his bunker, and left in a convoy of vehicles. It would have been more fitting for him to empty his last magazine of that gold plated gun taking out as many rebels as possible, perhaps saving the last shot for himself, or fighting it out alongside his bodyguards, but he was wounded in multiple places from the airstrike. The baying mob that laid into him pretty much encapsulates the rebel movement in Libya - a bunch of thugs, short on brains, running amok with no effective command and control structure.

So now the war is over. God help the Libyan people. It is fitting his last words, as he was being punched by thugs, was "What did I ever do to you?" He really believed that the Libyans loved him and that he was good to them. While many did love the guy and died for him, a large number did not love him...and while it was true he elevated the living conditions of his people in the 1970's, for the past 30 years not so much. He refused to believe a good chunk of the population disliked him.

 

[fuji]

I don't know if I believe he thought Libyans liked him. He was one sick puppy, but hew as a smart guy. He could not possibly have maintained control over Libya for 42 years if he held any illusions about where his power came from or what would happen if things got out of hand.

I think people supported him out of a mixture of fear and greed. If you crossed him you were dead. If you supported him he made you rich. The people around him were all involved in crimes of various sorts, they got rich stealing from others, stealing from the country. They got involved in torture and murder and maybe rape. During the good times the good life kept them in line. When the revolution came along these are the guys who cracked down on it in horribly illegal ways, murdering prisoners, shelling towns, sniping at women and children. When it went badly what option did they have? So they continued to support him because the alternative was grim.

But I doubt that anyone supported him because they loved him or believed in him. It was greed and fear.

 

[danmand]

I don't know if I believe he thought Libyans liked him. He was one sick puppy, but hew as a smart guy. He could not possibly have maintained control over Libya for 42 years if he held any illusions about where his power came from or what would happen if things got out of hand.

I think people supported him out of a mixture of fear and greed. If you crossed him you were dead. If you supported him he made you rich. The people around him were all involved in crimes of various sorts, they got rich stealing from others, stealing from the country. They got involved in torture and murder and maybe rape. During the good times the good life kept them in line. When the revolution came along these are the guys who cracked down on it in horribly illegal ways, murdering prisoners, shelling towns, sniping at women and children. When it went badly what option did they have? So they continued to support him because the alternative was grim.

But I doubt that anyone supported him because they loved him or believed in him. It was greed and fear.

This is another example of a Fuji post, totally void of facts, but entirely based on after-rationalization.

 

[blackrock13]

This is another example of a Fuji post, totally void of facts, but entirely based on after-rationalization.

On this we agree DM and I'm sure we're not alone.