I don't know about a great friend to the USA in the 80s. Didn't President Reagan almost kill Ghadaffi back in the mid 80s when he launched that airstrike against him?For some twenty years Ghaddafi has changed position from anti USA to become a very dear and reliable friend of USA, Israel and the west. Ghadafi regime worked closley with the CIA and the mousad, he provided them information and valuable inteligence to capture lybians and others in the region. He accepted prisoners from the bush administration to hail tourture on them, he provided great protection to israel and the west when he put down every opponent to the west and israel in lybia. He provided great deal of help when it came to put some cash on the table for several reason, even latley he was negotiating with nato to how much it will cost him to just stay in power. He was dear friend to Italy, france and England even last year he was highly admired by Tony blair and david cameron and even condie rice said to have slept with one of his sons or possibly with him. He played the advocate and sponsor for the west policies in africa, he stood firm again the expansion of china and russia in africa in favour of USA and the west, he encouraged south soudan to split and go indie taking the oil wealth of soudan with them. he was great player in protecting the intersts of the west, Israel and USA. He took good lesson from the saudies, his sons including Saif were dwelling and playing on the tables of the west all the time day and night. Through fiendship with turky, italy, france, UK he managed to reach to every leader in the west and he befriended members of the israeli kenesset and members of the government as well. He ended his support to the palestinians since over 15 years ago, no money no political support for them just to please the USA. He even stopped his nukes program and ended his threats to israel. He evern paid for the lockerby victims, he stood firm against iran until they day of his death, he prohibited any chia muslim or iranian person to enter lybia, he cut his ties with iran indefinitly to please USA.
Only, just 9 months ago he was under the impression that he is well protected after what all he done to the west and what he is willing to further do, but who knows when the plitical tsunami in real world hit, it takes everything in its path with no regard to the good or bad record of a tyran been established.
Sadam was a great friend to USA and Isarel in the Eighties, he fought iran on their behalf for 8 years, he armed the christian groups in lebanon to fight the palestinians and ultimatley fighting syria in lebanon as wel. but in the 90's he thought he is the spoiled boy of USA. But he was wrong. He could not see that the west and the USA see their interests and benefits in any arabic leader and how he can serve them best, USA and the west don't give a dam over arabic people and their progress. I hope the remaining tyrant in the region learn a lesson that the USA is not a friend of the Arabic people, they are only friendly to them as long as the tyrant they put to lead them is very loyal to the American and zionist agenda in the world and the region and serve their causes only.
In final words USA and the west should be mourning Ghadafi today not celebrating his departure, he will leave a great vacume in the middile east politics same as his friends mubarak and Bin Ali done to the west when they took off, USA and israel will be lost without him after they were lost when mubark and bin Ali left, its just like tiple jeoperdy for USA foreign policy and intelegence community and work that been achieved in last 20 years and costed billions of dollars. One more tyrant on is way which is the yeman dictator who still think that USA can protect him and keep him in power, the coming days will tell us on this one.
Pro007
A democratic Muslim country will probably do and say things that Israel and the US won't like. They won't be able to buy them off the way they bought off people like Mubarek....nonsense...
My apologies Pro007. I had a brain cramp. In retrospect, what Bush did was wrong. He should've tried to keep Sadam on the West's side because Iran is worse. Libya seemed to do an about face after the 80s as far as their conduct (or Ghadaffi's conduct), but the West has no choice but to respect the will of the people in ousting him.Saddam was a good friend to USA in the Eighties not Ghaddafi, Ronnie boy rumsfeld sold him the poison gas to gas the iranians.
Pro007.
I think many Arabs/Muslims would like democracy, but there are many who don't - particularly those who are powerful. It definitely will take time, especially due to their culture and religion as you said.Since what is know to be the arabic khilafat and its disappearance back almost 1000 years ago, arabic countries never been so in love with the democratic system the west and the USA like to impose on them, Democray in the middile east or in the muslim world clearly means, CIVIL WAR.
I can name few middile eastern and muslim countries who adopted democracy which plunged into deadly civil war and civil unrest and kept its people fighting among them indefinitly.
For what I know here is the list.
Lebanon
Iraq
egypt
Pakistan
Afghanistan
turky
and many more i can't remember
In other words democracy is not the right pill for the arabs and muslims and it does not hold water when it comes to tradtions and relegion.
Pro007
now which replacement dictator will the u.s. install to keep the muslims in line and keep the oil flowing?
Would you mind telling us what dictator the U.S. installed in the Arab World in the first place?
They might not have "installed" them , but they certainly supported and help them maintain power.
Here is a vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzVAZS4uIc4
Ah but worse for who?We shall see where this leads. Jimmy Carter tried the same thing with Iran.. the Shah got kicked out.. but the scum that took over are even worse!!!!
Yep, not so long since Qadafi was Dubya's new BFF.Saddam was a good friend to USA in the Eighties not Ghaddafi, Ronnie boy rumsfeld sold him the poison gas to gas the iranians.
Pro007.
Yes, that is true, much as it was for the Nordland division in Berlin in April, 1945 when the Soviets were closing in.For sure life was not going to be pleasant for them if captured, I don't think the NTC was offering anybody amnesty. The guys who stayed on I think are mostly the ones for whom surrender was not an option, they were dead either way in other words: Death by hanging after a humiliating trial, or fight to the death with a chance of possibly escaping to some other country.
This is another example of a Fuji post, totally void of facts, but entirely based on after-rationalization.I don't know if I believe he thought Libyans liked him. He was one sick puppy, but hew as a smart guy. He could not possibly have maintained control over Libya for 42 years if he held any illusions about where his power came from or what would happen if things got out of hand.
I think people supported him out of a mixture of fear and greed. If you crossed him you were dead. If you supported him he made you rich. The people around him were all involved in crimes of various sorts, they got rich stealing from others, stealing from the country. They got involved in torture and murder and maybe rape. During the good times the good life kept them in line. When the revolution came along these are the guys who cracked down on it in horribly illegal ways, murdering prisoners, shelling towns, sniping at women and children. When it went badly what option did they have? So they continued to support him because the alternative was grim.
But I doubt that anyone supported him because they loved him or believed in him. It was greed and fear.
On this we agree DM and I'm sure we're not alone.This is another example of a Fuji post, totally void of facts, but entirely based on after-rationalization.