Eugenie Bouchard

[starzero4]

The only place fame went is to Milos' foot.

He has been a consummate, dedicated, hard working pro who has done all he could to overcome his lack of natural athleticism and is still improving and rising in the rankings.

I don't see any validity in your comparison.

Agreed shack. fame gone to Milos' head? Could not disagree more with thailover. Milos has put in WORK and has improved his ROS, his BH, his defense/movement. Still room for improvement for sure but he has made progression. Does he still have deficiencies in his game? Yes but this guy is a hard worker and a pro. I'd like to see him improve his game up at net - I find that his decision making on what to come in behind can improve - sometimes he comes in behind approach shots which aren't sufficiently good. Also, he sometimes misses makeable volleys or doesn't do enough with that 1st volley and gets himself in trouble as a result.

To say that fame has gone to Milos' head is IMO both unfair and inaccurate.

 

[shack]

Agreed shack. fame gone to Milos' head? Could not disagree more with thailover. Milos has put in WORK and has improved his ROS, his BH, his defense/movement.

I think you left out possibly his biggest improvement..............his conditioning. I don't think I ever see him breathing hard anymore.

 

[starzero4]

I think you left out possibly his biggest improvement..............his conditioning. I don't think I ever see him breathing hard anymore.

On that we will have to agree to disagree. I think his BIGGEST improvement has been the movement and the backhand and return of serve. That is only my opinion. Return of serve has improved in terms of % of returns in play though the quality of the return still needs improvement IMO.

As for the conditioning I think we also need to remember the following...

a) The improved BH means he no longer expends as much energy running around it. I saw him play live at the USO 3rd row behind the baseline on Court 17 couple years ago when he lost to Gasquet in 5 sets and he was running around the BH quite a bit back then. That takes a LOT of energy. The improved BH means he trusts the BH more so he no longer needs to run around it as much and that automatically makes his game more economical. (You will recall that match was on that Labor Day when there was the debacle at the USO with the rain delays and the Fed match got moved to Armstrong. I had row A Loge tickets for the day session on Ashe on that labor day and people were pissed b/c they moved Fed to Armstrong. Of course Armstrong flooded up pretty quickly with a lot of GA ticket holders and a lot of the Ashe ticket holders myself included were left fuming. )

b) By coming into net more he abbreviates points - this also helps to save energy. He does need to improve in his efficiency up at net IMO but the fact that he is venturing forward does help him conserve energy in his fuel tank b/c coming in abbreviates points.

So I'm going to argue that his conditioning wasn't really that bad before. The weaknesses in his game and the way he played just caused him to burn fuel faster.
The changes under Ljubicic/Piatti - the improved BH and venturing forward more has led to a more economical game which saves fuel. Clearly, when you run around the BH all the time like he did before that expends a LOT of energy. He doesn't do that nearly as much anymore. Just by not running around the BH as much automatically saves energy independent of any conditioning improvement. Has Milos' conditioning improved? Well every young player probably puts in conditioning work so his conditioning probably has improved (conditioning of most young players who put in work does improve) but I really don't think his conditioning was that bad before - his game was just burning fuel a lot faster. So I think the conditioning improvement is not nearly as big as the improvements in the BH, ROS, defense/movement.

So based on what I've written above I will stand by my original assertion that the biggest improvements in his game has been BH, defense/movement, ROS. Though I do agree with you that thailover's comparison was invalid.


For what it is worth I just took the liberty of tweeting Brad Gilbert & Darren "Killer" Cahill and asked them for their expert opinions on this subject. I wanted to get an expert's view on this topic. These analysts / coaches have probably forgotten more about tennis than I can ever dream of knowing so I value their opinions. At the end of the day I am just a fan sitting at home watching tennis on TV. Brad & Darren are experts.

For anyone interested here is what Brad & Darren think are Milos' biggest improvements....

Brad's response was movement, backhand and net-play..

https://twitter.com/bgtennisnation/status/604128303029620736

Darren's response was movement & return of serve (ROS)

https://twitter.com/darren_cahill/status/604178273090826240

 

[K Douglas]

Eugenie is in a funk. Her confidence is shaken. It has nothing to do with off court matters (fighting over a guy....really?)
She's changed coaches and maybe there is an adjustment period.
I have full belief she will be back on top of her game later this season.

 

[nottyboi]

I think you left out possibly his biggest improvement..............his conditioning. I don't think I ever see him breathing hard anymore.

Milos is so much better this year in so many areas, it is really amazing. He is 2x the player he was last year and even his serve has become more consistent and deadly. Milos is all business. I am not sure how much further he can climb but he as already defied many predictions.

 

[nottyboi]

On that we will have to agree to disagree. I think his BIGGEST improvement has been the movement and the backhand and return of serve. That is only my opinion. Return of serve has improved in terms of % of returns in play though the quality of the return still needs improvement IMO.

As for the conditioning I think we also need to remember the following...

a) The improved BH means he no longer expends as much energy running around it. I saw him play live at the USO 3rd row behind the baseline on Court 17 couple years ago when he lost to Gasquet in 5 sets and he was running around the BH quite a bit back then. That takes a LOT of energy. The improved BH means he trusts the BH more so he no longer needs to run around it as much and that automatically makes his game more economical. (You will recall that match was on that Labor Day when there was the debacle at the USO with the rain delays and the Fed match got moved to Armstrong. I had row A Loge tickets for the day session on Ashe on that labor day and people were pissed b/c they moved Fed to Armstrong. Of course Armstrong flooded up pretty quickly with a lot of GA ticket holders and a lot of the Ashe ticket holders myself included were left fuming. )

b) By coming into net more he abbreviates points - this also helps to save energy. He does need to improve in his efficiency up at net IMO but the fact that he is venturing forward does help him conserve energy in his fuel tank b/c coming in abbreviates points.

So I'm going to argue that his conditioning wasn't really that bad before. The weaknesses in his game and the way he played just caused him to burn fuel faster.
The changes under Ljubicic/Piatti - the improved BH and venturing forward more has led to a more economical game which saves fuel. Clearly, when you run around the BH all the time like he did before that expends a LOT of energy. He doesn't do that nearly as much anymore. Just by not running around the BH as much automatically saves energy independent of any conditioning improvement. Has Milos' conditioning improved? Well every young player probably puts in conditioning work so his conditioning probably has improved (conditioning of most young players who put in work does improve) but I really don't think his conditioning was that bad before - his game was just burning fuel a lot faster. So I think the conditioning improvement is not nearly as big as the improvements in the BH, ROS, defense/movement.

So based on what I've written above I will stand by my original assertion that the biggest improvements in his game has been BH, defense/movement, ROS. Though I do agree with you that thailover's comparison was invalid.


For what it is worth I just took the liberty of tweeting Brad Gilbert & Darren "Killer" Cahill and asked them for their expert opinions on this subject. I wanted to get an expert's view on this topic. These analysts / coaches have probably forgotten more about tennis than I can ever dream of knowing so I value their opinions. At the end of the day I am just a fan sitting at home watching tennis on TV. Brad & Darren are experts.

For anyone interested here is what Brad & Darren think are Milos' biggest improvements....

Brad's response was movement, backhand and net-play..

https://twitter.com/bgtennisnation/status/604128303029620736

Darren's response was movement & return of serve (ROS)

https://twitter.com/darren_cahill/status/604178273090826240

A big part of movement is conditioning, especially for a big guy like Milos. Direction changes require immense power when you are that tall.

 

[starzero4]

Milos is so much better this year in so many areas, it is really amazing. He is 2x the player he was last year and even his serve has become more consistent and deadly. Milos is all business. I am not sure how much further he can climb but he as already defied many predictions.

I actually think last year was when we saw the improvements in the BH, ROS -% of returns in play in particular - the last couple years under Galo Blanco the % of returns in play was pretty poor, the BH return as well which was a MAJOR weakness has improved some as well. Not a strength by any means but not nearly as bad as before. His defense/movement was much better last year as well. Credit Ljubicic & Piatti as a lot of the improvements came under them.

I still argue he needs to do better up at net. I like his willingness to move forward but I think his decision making on what to come in behind is suspect at times. Sometimes he will come in behind an approach that isnt sufficiently good and he gets himself in trouble. Sometimes he will not do enough with that first volley and get himself in trouble. And sometimes he will just plain miss what should be a makeable volley. Go back to the match he played versus Nole @ the AO and Milos had a NIGHTMARISH night up at net. Yes, Novak is the best in the world right now but Milos missed plenty of makeable volleys in that match and his decision making on what to come in behind and or what to cover up at net was poor.

 

[starzero4]

A big part of movement is conditioning, especially for a big guy like Milos. Direction changes require immense power when you are that tall.

Let me preface by saying that I'm not suggesting Milos hasn't improved his conditioning. Any young athlete that is working hard works on conditioning and by all accounts Milos is a hard worker so he is putting in the hard yards so by virtue of that alone the conditioning is going to improve. shack earlier in his reply to my post was mentioning Milos breathing hard and part of my point is the improved BH and the commitment to venturing forward means that he runs a lot less on the tennis court than he did before. It also requires a lot of energy to constantly run around the BH . And running less means you will be breathing hard less. Would Milos have been breathing hard before as much if his BH was as good as it is now (and running around it LESS) and if he was moving forward in the court MORE back then like he is now? If you are demanding your body to do more chances are you gonna breath harder more (even if conditioning is the same).

There are confounding variables at play and a player can do other things to save energy and thus breath hard less. Is an improvement in conditioning a contributing factor to him breathing hard less? ABSOLUTELY. I'm only disagreeing on the relative order of what he has improved.

Here is an illustration....

Suppose hypothetically for the sake of argument that Milos Raonic and his team does ZERO conditioning work. So suppose they do absolutely NO conditioning work to help him in that department.

Milos would still be breathing hard less NOW than he did before by virtue of the fact that the improvement BH and commitment to move forward more means he needs to move far less on the court than he did before. So I just provided an example of how someone could theoretically do ZERO conditioning work but not be breathing as hard due to other improvements or changes in the game.

 

[SkyRider]

Genie could be this generation's Anna Kournikova. Both are good looking and are model material but no major tennis wins.

 

[nottyboi]

Let me preface by saying that I'm not suggesting Milos hasn't improved his conditioning. Any young athlete that is working hard works on conditioning and by all accounts Milos is a hard worker so he is putting in the hard yards so by virtue of that alone the conditioning is going to improve. shack earlier in his reply to my post was mentioning Milos breathing hard and part of my point is the improved BH and the commitment to venturing forward means that he runs a lot less on the tennis court than he did before. It also requires a lot of energy to constantly run around the BH . And running less means you will be breathing hard less. Would Milos have been breathing hard before as much if his BH was as good as it is now (and running around it LESS) and if he was moving forward in the court MORE back then like he is now? If you are demanding your body to do more chances are you gonna breath harder more (even if conditioning is the same).

There are confounding variables at play and a player can do other things to save energy and thus breath hard less. Is an improvement in conditioning a contributing factor to him breathing hard less? ABSOLUTELY. I'm only disagreeing on the relative order of what he has improved.

Here is an illustration....

Suppose hypothetically for the sake of argument that Milos Raonic and his team does ZERO conditioning work. So suppose they do absolutely NO conditioning work to help him in that department.

Milos would still be breathing hard less NOW than he did before by virtue of the fact that the improvement BH and commitment to move forward more means he needs to move far less on the court than he did before. So I just provided an example of how someone could theoretically do ZERO conditioning work but not be breathing as hard due to other improvements or changes in the game.

well yes thats true, he has far more options now. But his sheer speed on court and ability to get to balls has clearly improved, that is more to do with strength then endurance. The big boy is almost explosive!!!

 

[nottyboi]

Genie could be this generation's Anna Kournikova. Both are good looking and are model material but no major tennis wins.

Lets face it, Anna Kournikova was WAYYYYYYYYY hotter then Genie. Even Genies sister is hotter then Genie. She is quite cute, but Anna Kournikova was DDG, and Anna Ivanovic is hotter in everyway then Genie as well as a Slam winner.

 

[starzero4]

Lets face it, Anna Kournikova was WAYYYYYYYYY hotter then Genie. Even Genies sister is hotter then Genie. She is quite cute, but Anna Kournikova was DDG, and Anna Ivanovic is hotter in everyway then Genie as well as a Slam winner.

Agree with you on Genie's sister. Actually saw Genie's sister live last year and I was not far from where she was sitting. It was at Armstrong for the match between her and Makaraova at the USO. She was sitting with her mom with Genie's camp - Saviano, etc.

 

[eguapo]

Genie could be this generation's Anna Kournikova. Both are good looking and are model material but no major tennis wins.

Kournikova won two Grand Slam titles.... albeit in doubles.

 

[sashimi]

Epic Fail. Last year's Wimbledon finalist knocked off in the first round by world number 117.
And broke dress code too.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/te...n-progresses-second-round-2015-Wimbledon.html

 

[Insidious Von]

Let's not pile on, Genie was injured. I was surprised that she got in a few aces with an abdominal tear, but the injury took it's toll. A healthy Genie would have broke the Chinese's serve a dozen times.

If sad Ahnold can come back so can Genie.

 

[vixxcampbell]

Let's not pile on, Genie was injured. I was surprised that she got in a few aces with an abdominal tear, but the injury took it's toll. A healthy Genie would have broke the Chinese's serve a dozen times.

If sad Ahnold can come back so can Genie.

Easy to make excuses for Genie but to be fair Genie has struggled against big-hitters in the past. And while the Chinese player was a relative unknown qualifier she did hit a big ball (in fact she is known as the "Chinese Davenport" for her playing style). Again, not saying she is Davenport. But her playing STYLE is similar. Big hitter of the ball and Genie has always struggled against the bigger hitters. Chinese player was not very mobile though so maybe more like Davenport 1.0 as opposed to DAvenport 2.0. But that didn't hurt the Chinese player that much b/c she was playing 1st strike tennis and getting ahead in the rallies more often than not in the match yesterday.

And that 1st serve % has been an issue for Genie in the past (even before the injury) and the second serve has always been CAKE (sits up too much). Maybe the double-digit DFs we can partly attribute to the injury yesterday but I don't want to provide Genie too much of an excuse.

And to be fair she has been struggling and losing a lot of 1st round matches well before the injury.

Genie's game has always lacked power , lacked variety and her defense is only adequate to average at best. That has always been the case. Lets keep in mind too that she had a lot of soft draws at the majors last year and that contributed to those deep runs at the majors. Not a whole lot of signature wins on the resume for her.

 

[mjg1]

I'm not going pile on, so I will cut her some lack for the injury. Unless she's just using that injury as an excuse, for a game that's regressing. Maybe too much attention has been paid to her looks, rather than her game. I remember Anna Kournikova, getting all the hype and for what, basically for just being hot. Of course Eugenie is clearly a much better player, than Anna ever was, but she may have been over hyped. While her flaws somewhat ignored, because of her looks.

 

[cronowerx]

Genie looking more and more like a Kournikova than a Sharapova.....

 

[harryass]

if she's injured, she shouldn't be playing.

 

[shack]

if she's injured, she shouldn't be playing.

Tell that to Bobby Baun, Kirk Gibson and many others.