So you must think we should just shut down for a couple of years and let the virus fade away.
And if hundreds of millions die of starvation and other diseases, at least they didn`t get Covid-19.
End the Lockdown
- Thread starter TeeJay
- Start date
And if hundreds of millions die of starvation and other diseases, at least they didn`t get Covid-19.
Umm. Nope. I think Canada and Ontario are handling things well. Try to get a relative handle on the initial wave, gradually reduce the restrictions and open things up and be ready to take actions as needed in the future.
Lifting restrictions leads to some infections and deaths.
This is reality.
A balanced decision needs to be made soon, probably within 2 months.
The rate of death is tiny, no matter what the total tally is. Going to have to accept that eventually.
canada-man
Well-known member
What Sweden is doing is not an example for other nations to emulate now or in the future. They are an utter failure when compared to their immediate neighbours Denmark, Norway and Finland who all saw the Coronavirus cases in close timeline to one another but took measures that were quite different than Sweden with Sweden keeping business as usual and Denmark and Norway shutting non essential businesses down, and yet they are fairing much better than Sweden with a fraction of the cases, fraction of the deaths as well as a curve that is flattening.
What has Sweden done that you view as being worthy of emulation?
I told all you people who keep bringing up Sweden as a model to copy that they will have spikes in their number around the 20th of this month and just today they saw another spike of 545 new daily cases and 185 new deaths. As well I also told you that their current death rate will keep on increasing and that's exactly what has happened they are now at 11.5% death rate from 10.4% just 5 days ago.
The most important thing about Sweden is that currently they are not even at a capacity with their healthcare system but they are getting very close to the point where their healthcare system will be on the verge of being overburdened with critical cases which will make them have more drastic jumps in both daily cases as well deaths. Until they institute social distancing their numbers will be increasing to a point where they will overburden their healthcare system which at that point they will have no other option but to enforce quarantines.
https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...as-a-family!&p=6680814&viewfull=1#post6680814
"Like I said In Sweden the curve has bot been flattened, they will even see more spikes in the daily confirmed cases and daily deaths around the 20th of this month since they are not practicing social distancing.
Unfortunately regardless of it being repeated over and over, probably billions of times some of you people simply don’t understand the importance of a symptomatic carriers with the Coronavirus and the fact that they are in many cases asymptomatic for weeks before showing any signs of having the virus in effect spreading the virus to even more people unknowingly.
It is too early to judge them one way or the other.
It will take time to compare apples to apples.
It will take time for the other countries to lift their lockdowns and more time to see the results.
I am not praising Sweden.
We are only in the 3rd inning and I will wait until the end of the 9th to make that call.
However, keeping the economy running and not overwhelming the health system is a significant accomplishment.
A vaccine is going to take at least 18 months, maybe more, so we will be going through the 2nd and 3rd waves by then.
I can`t see us going through more shutdowns like this again for this virus, so that`s why I say the Sweden model is coming, or something like it.
People who think they know everything now could turn out to be right or wrong, time will tell.
Have a look at the number of deaths from COVID-19 in the US for the week of April 6-12.
Flu/Pneumonia: 1,227
COVID-19: 12,392
Does that sound like the typical flu? And that's with many practicing social distancing.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/04/16/coronavirus-leading-cause-death/?arc404=true
There are radicals at both ends of the spectrum.
I think I am quite moderate and open-minded.
Right now there appears to be conflicting crystal balls so who really knows how this is all going to play out?
In hindsight, some will look a lot more right than others.
Yes you are praising Sweden, you keep proclaiming what Sweden is using as a model is what we can use, and you even share a right wing biased/propaganda video that is misleading and purposely providing false information to support it's opinion. The author has gone to lengths to compare Sweden to one of the worst affected countries UK, just based on the number of daily deaths/Mln not by the total number of cases/Mln where Sweden is very close to the UK and not by the total number of deaths/Mln where again Sweden is not too far off UK, as well comparing two countries where there is a large difference in population, UK has 6.5X more population than Sweden and with a large disparity in population density, where UK is almost 12X more densely populated than Sweden.
Had you taken a minute to research and watch that video you would have known the numbers the author of that video is using for comparison is until April 12th unlike what he claims in the video which is April 15th, Sweden saw a drastic jump in daily death cases between April 13-15 and he purposely cut off the chart.
As for the daily death/Mln peak that the author claims of from April 6th, Sweden had even a higher number of daily deaths/Mln on April 7, 8, 9, 14, 16, 18, but the author posted that video yesterday April 20th purposely leaving out those numbers meanwhile claiming the numbers were from April 15th although they are from April 12th.
Hence why I posted in another thread why it's not only irrational but dangerous to use a drop in the number of deaths or daily cases for a few days as a way to argue the virus is being handles well by the Swede's or any country for that matter.
Sweden compared to it's immediate border neighbours Denmark and Norway is fairing far worse, which Denmark and Norway took the measures of shutting down non essential businesses.
Both Denmark (4.8% current death rate) and Norway (2.5% current death rate) have substantially less confirmed cases and deaths as well as drastically a lower percentage death rate than Sweden (11.5% current death rate), they also have a substantially less number of cases/Mln than Sweden 1517 VS 1326, and 1329, and they also have a drastically lower number of deaths/Mln of Sweden at 175 VS 64, and 34. Had the author of the video you posted wanted to do a fair comparison to Sweden he would have compared it to Denmark or Noway it's immediate border neighbours.
Sweden is in for a rough ride, today they had their single highest day in deaths with 185 and they will have more days this week as well as around the 30th of April they will have more spikes and until they use isolation or quarantines as a measure they will continue to see these spike in the numbers of cases and deaths.
canada-man
Well-known member
last year over 60,000 people died of seasonal flu 15 million were infected here was no lockdowns and social distancing
People are terrified right now and they are going to hold on to their money. They're not going to go out there and buy new Jordan , new flashy cars or the canada goose jacket lol
Maybe few idiots will put this shit on a credit card increasing their debt and making it even worst and the reason why we are where we are atm.
All the idiots crying for the economy to reopen now are the ones that didn't save for a rainy day. You know the idiots I'm talking about right?
Flashy car that you can't afford , mortgage on a house that you can't afford , vacations that you can't afford.
That's right I'm talking to you and you know who you are.
Now what? Now you cry? Want to risk your health, your family and the general public health? Because you don't understand the meaning of savings?
Am I suppost to feel sorry for you now?
Husband and wife making 40k a year with 5 kids? Real smart buddy.
Now enjoy your doom and learn a valuable lesson from it.....SAVE YOUR FCKN MONEY.
PS What's even more funny is that all of this is being posted on an escort forum ahaha
How many thousands of dollars you spent on escorts Huh? Instead of saving them ? and now you cry lol?
Even the escorts making thousands a day are running out of money...face palm.
You'll pick what you plant buddy. Enjoy your harvest
Maybe few idiots will put this shit on a credit card increasing their debt and making it even worst and the reason why we are where we are atm.
All the idiots crying for the economy to reopen now are the ones that didn't save for a rainy day. You know the idiots I'm talking about right?
Flashy car that you can't afford , mortgage on a house that you can't afford , vacations that you can't afford.
That's right I'm talking to you and you know who you are.
Now what? Now you cry? Want to risk your health, your family and the general public health? Because you don't understand the meaning of savings?
Am I suppost to feel sorry for you now?
Husband and wife making 40k a year with 5 kids? Real smart buddy.
Now enjoy your doom and learn a valuable lesson from it.....SAVE YOUR FCKN MONEY.
PS What's even more funny is that all of this is being posted on an escort forum ahaha
How many thousands of dollars you spent on escorts Huh? Instead of saving them ? and now you cry lol?
Even the escorts making thousands a day are running out of money...face palm.
You'll pick what you plant buddy. Enjoy your harvest
I am sure I am wasting my time but let me give it one last shot. :deadhorse:
The consensus is that there will be more waves of this virus until there is a vaccine, which is likely at least 18 months out.
Do you think we will be prepared to shut down the economy again for the 2nd wave?
If so, we are all fucked much worse than this virus could ever do.
If not, this is the Sweden model = no shutdown.
This is not praise, it is practicality.
As far as pulling off what Sweden did, this specifically means keeping the economy running without overwhelming the health system.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Again, no praise, no victory laps, and no high fives.
Just reality that is what it is.
Unfortunately, Canada is quite primitive compared to Germany.
Our opening of the economy will be a shot in the dark.
Deutschland
It’s no coincidence that the first large Western democracy to contain the spread of COVID-19, and the first to prepare to reopen its economy, is Germany, whose leader, Chancellor Angela Merkel, is a trained scientist.
Its institutions and politicians were temperate.
There was no competition for supplies and — due to Merkel’s science-based policymaking — the country ramped-up testing faster than and to a greater scale than most.
Now about 120,000 tests are administered daily among a population of 83 million, and the goal is to do even more.
Results have been rapid and flawless, thanks to a network of laboratories that, among other innovations, developed the first test in the world for this coronavirus.
Now Germany is so far advanced in controlling the virus that it is cautiously rolling out a system of issuing so-called “immunity cards” for those who have been shown to have developed antibodies to the disease, which will allow them to work, travel and socialize, thus allowing the country to gradually reopen its economy.
You are contradicting yourself.
The economy can`t recover if consumers don`t spend.
The longer the shutdown, the more people who will have nothing to spend.
canada-man
Well-known member
Early data suggest it’s ‘another disease with a profile dependent on inequalities’
Are you under 65 and have no “underlying predisposing conditions” for COVID-19 complications?
Then don’t worry about the novel coronavirus, even if you live in a “hotbed” of infection.
Stanford University epidemiologist John Ioannidis (above), who blew the whistle on the bad data being used to justify coronavirus crackdowns on daily life, has new research with his colleagues at Stanford Medical School. Their specialties also include “meta-research” and women’s and children’s health.
The preprint study in Medrxiv, which has not been peer-reviewed, sought to evaluate the risk of COVID-19 to people under 65 years of age relative to older people, estimate the “absolute risk” of death from infection “at the population level,” and discern what proportion of deaths “occur in non-elderly people without underlying diseases in epicenters of the pandemic.”
The authors scold the media for seizing on “stories of young healthy individuals with severe, fatal outcomes” from infection: “However, the majority of patients dying with SARS-CoV-2 are elderly and the large majority of the deceased may have severe underlying diseases. Exaggeration should be avoided in responding to the pandemic.”
https://www.thecollegefix.com/stanf...data-finds-low-fatality-rate-even-in-hotbeds/
conclusion it is the latest flu strain
Are you under 65 and have no “underlying predisposing conditions” for COVID-19 complications?
Then don’t worry about the novel coronavirus, even if you live in a “hotbed” of infection.
Stanford University epidemiologist John Ioannidis (above), who blew the whistle on the bad data being used to justify coronavirus crackdowns on daily life, has new research with his colleagues at Stanford Medical School. Their specialties also include “meta-research” and women’s and children’s health.
The preprint study in Medrxiv, which has not been peer-reviewed, sought to evaluate the risk of COVID-19 to people under 65 years of age relative to older people, estimate the “absolute risk” of death from infection “at the population level,” and discern what proportion of deaths “occur in non-elderly people without underlying diseases in epicenters of the pandemic.”
The authors scold the media for seizing on “stories of young healthy individuals with severe, fatal outcomes” from infection: “However, the majority of patients dying with SARS-CoV-2 are elderly and the large majority of the deceased may have severe underlying diseases. Exaggeration should be avoided in responding to the pandemic.”
https://www.thecollegefix.com/stanf...data-finds-low-fatality-rate-even-in-hotbeds/
conclusion it is the latest flu strain
canada-man
Well-known member
The Swedish model is not a model that is successful nor a model that we can emulate for a secondary or third wave prior to a vaccine being developed, but unfortunately you amongst some few with little understanding of the virus think it's a model that is successful and one to be emulated and keep repeating it although the facts prove otherwise.
Sweden's immediate border neighbours that originally saw the spike in the Coronavirus cases in the same timeline were Denmark and Norway, both instituted strict measures and are fairing far better than Sweden. Both Denmark (4.8% current death rate) and Norway (2.5% current death rate) have substantially less total number of confirmed cases, total number of deaths as well as death rate of Sweden (11.5% current death rate). Simply doing nothing and allowing people to carry on as normal and business as usual is a formula that is far worse than isolation and quarantines against the Coronavirus.
We should not end the shutdown just because some irrational, loud and ignorant people who are interested in opening up the economy for their own selfish personal gains say so. We also shouldn't shutdown the economy again for a secondary or third wave, as long proper measures are taken.
What Canada or any other country needs to do to get ready for secondary or other waves is to have strict health measures as well as extreme tracing measures but in our Canadian society that is not easily done as some (The same who are yelling and telling us to follow the Swedish model) will be yelling about their rights, which will lead us back to the same issue again which will be to quarantine.
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