Don't be left behind

[Ranger68]

I didn't say ANY of those things. The assumption that just because he's Christian then he's going to do this or that is false.
Look, you haven't even read the book.
Do you understand Bush's faith?
Do you know how it might impact on his decision-making processes?
Do you know what he thinks of other faiths?
Don't you think you probably should understand that?

 

[Ranger68]

Ranger here you go again.
You read one book and you conclude *well somebody wrote it, it must be true".
This book came out in the middle of the election campaign. Why do you think it came out than and not earlier or later???
If it would be such a big deal, don't you think the "media" would have had a feast on it?
The fact is, it came out, it produced some hoopla and now it's over.
Can you point me to another source, that proclaims the same?
Agreed I haven't read the book, and i probably never will for the reasons above.
It is a contemporary opinion book and only history will show it's value.

Not remotely. I'd treat the book as a fairly hostile witness. You don't know what the author is implying, or even when it came out! LOL
I just think it's wise to know something about what you're posting about before you shoot off your mouth.
Unlike you, I guess, since you don't even know the slightest thing about the book in question! LOL

 

[onthebottom]

As Mansfield notes, mixing Christianity and politics is nothing new. All American presidents have spoken openly of religion. John F. Kennedy included more scripture references in his speeches than any other president before him.

Nevertheless, Mansfield believes that Bush is unique among recent presidents because his references to religion are more than just words in speeches.

Bush's integration of his faith and politics has led many to fear that Bush is aiming to establish some sort of theocracy, but in reality, Mansfield argues, Bush has no intention to destroy the traditional separation of church and state.

OTB

If this is accurate (you've read the book so you will know) then I don't need to read it, the last quote is all I need to know.

OTB

 

[Ranger68]

Ah. Everything you need to know is in one sentence.
Well, at least we know where you're coming from.
LOL

Enjoy your ignorance.

 

[langeweile]

Not remotely. I'd treat the book as a fairly hostile witness. You don't know what the author is implying, or even when it came out! LOL
I just think it's wise to know something about what you're posting about before you shoot off your mouth.
Unlike you, I guess, since you don't even know the slightest thing about the book in question! LOL

YES, as stated before I have not read the book and I probably never will, unless i am finished with my current stack. Plus I don't believe there is anything wrong, with a POTUS being guided by divine principles. Unless he crosses the line between church and state. OTB, already has noted that this is not his plan, so WTF is the problem.

You could argue, that he has directed some money to faith based groups, that help the disadvantaged. On the surface this constitutes a breach of seperation of church and state, but the courts will have to decide that. There is some groups, that have challenged him on that, fair enough. They have the right to do that, let's see where it ends up.
Other than a book, that came out in November 2003 ( in the early stages of the campaign), there is very little evidence, that GWB has crossed or will attempt to cross that line between church and state.
I was doing some searches on the "Temple of Soloman issue", but wasn't able to find anything. Knowing that you are a smart and savy man, maybe you could help me out?

While I have not read "the book", as you correctly stated, but i do follow daily politics.The from you proclaimed "problem or issue" is based on one (very smart) man called Mansfield.
He has the right to his opinion and perceives GWB to be a very religous man.........yes he is right. Where is the problem?

 

[Ranger68]

The problem, to restate from the first post, is that the White House refuses to discuss issues of the President's faith.
Why?
I, for one, am interested to know where he stands on some important issues.
Aren't you?

 

[langeweile]

His faith should not be an issue for public discussion, any more than your sexual preferences.
UNLESS his personal faith violates the law.

While I have not read "the book", his personal religous preferences are known to me. He is a born again christian. If you need to know, what born again christians believe in, there is enough information out there.

My gut feel on the refusal is, that there is a tendency for the media to portray anybody, that proclaims Christ in his life, to be of questionable character. Or worse a religous extremist. Why should he support such bias? Everything and anything that he will say on this issue, will be interpreted according to your political affiliation.
In this case like anywhere else, your religous belief, your race and your sexual preference should not matter. (unless you are violating the law)

 

[Ranger68]

He's the President of the United States, and much of what's going on around the world involves religion. I'm allowed to ask the President what he thinks of women's rights, or abortion - I should be able to ask him where he stands on religious issues.
To say that it's not an issue for public discussion is so totally evasive and counter-productive - well, it's obviously what the White House thinks. I don't buy it. Other Presidents have made their faith matters of public record.

There is also plenty of difference among the beliefs of born-again Christians. Belief in the End Times, which was the topic of discussion at the outset of this thread, foremost among them.

Why evade the question? It's perfectly legitimate. If he was MY president, I'd damn sure want to know where he stood.

I agree with your assessment that the media may jump all over his Christian beliefs. And that, even among hard-core supporters, there are enough belief systems out there that no matter which one he espoused, he wouldn't necessarily be making friends. That having been said, these are reasons why he *won't* answer, not reasons why he *shouldn't*.

His faith is materially important to his decision-making, IMO - unlike his sexual preference and his race. In fact, he's gone on record as saying that he's made decisions based on faith - belief that God wanted him to be President, for instance.

Again, I'd want to know.

 

[langeweile]

Well I accept your point of view and you have the right to ask this question.
He has the right to refuse to answer it.
Based on that, everybody has the right to draw his/her conclusions from it, and read and analyze the information available.

 

[red]

i just got an email- the rapture is scheduled for Jan 3rd at 3 in the afternoon, which is great because I normally sleep in.

anyone need a lift? Minx? anyone?

 

[Ranger68]

Why does he have the right to refuse to answer it? Outside of the fact that he has the "right" to refuse to answer anything?
It's just evasion.

Anyway, red - do you know where I can lay hands on some gopher wood? Several cubits? .... Oh, wait, that's the wrong chapter. Uh, gimme a sec .......

 

[onthebottom]

i just got an email- the rapture is scheduled for Jan 3rd at 3 in the afternoon, which is great because I normally sleep in.

anyone need a lift? Minx? anyone?

That's a bit cruel, just after the New Years hangover is goes away then Rapture....

I put it in my Palm.

OTB

 

[papasmerf]

That's a bit cruel, just after the New Years hangover is goes away then Rapture....

I put it in my Palm.

OTB

Can we move that up a bit

Hate to work most of the day. Perhaps we could do it around 9 am. That should make it about coffee break and I will be free to leave.

 

[red]

Why does he have the right to refuse to answer it? Outside of the fact that he has the "right" to refuse to answer anything?
It's just evasion.

Anyway, red - do you know where I can lay hands on some gopher wood? Several cubits? .... Oh, wait, that's the wrong chapter. Uh, gimme a sec .......

ok- just for that- ranger is off the list. room for one more in the car

 

[papasmerf]

ok- just for that- ranger is off the list. room for one more in the car

Come on
let the guy in
after all we can all watch him argue at the Gates.

 

[red]

ok but he has to pay for gas

 

[papasmerf]

ok but he has to pay for gas

Works for me
But ummmmmm can we make him ride in the trunk?

 

[langeweile]

Can I come too????
Please I promise I behave......*wink wink*
At least BBK and Ranger, would heve somebody they can beat up on together....on second thought......shoot Red is in the car too.
PAPA a I hope yo about 6' 5" and about 300 lb...I am gonna need some protection on the trip.


* Maybe no going to the rapture might be smarter...hhhmmm*

 

[red]

Just meet me at Nathan Philips Square on jan 3rd about 1pm- I will pick everyone up

 

[langeweile]

I have a van that seats 8, maybe we can pick up a few more lost souls?
If the rapture get's cancelled, maybe we can turn it in to a field trip to some SP's.