Does anyone understand calorie deficit?

boobtoucher

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Forget about calories. Think only nutrition. 100 calories of junk and 1000 calories of nutrient rich food are NOT the same.
Man, y'all need to take a thermodynamics class.


1. The only way to lose weight is through a calorie deficit. That deficit can come through food or through exercise, however food is more calorie rich than you think, and exercise doesn't burn as many calories as you think.

2. It is MORE DIFFICULT to be in calorie deficit if you eat 1000 calories of junk vs 1000 calories of vegetables. You will feel hungrier and shittier, but if you maintain the same calorie deficit, you will still lose weight at exactly the same rate.

3. "Starvation mode" is kinda bullshit. Yes, over time a low calorie diet will decrease your metabolic rate, but that's WAY down the line. 1.5 million Cambodians did not go into Starvation Mode when the Khmer Rouge fed them 600 calories a day. They got LA skinny until they died.
 

The Oracle

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A lot of bullshit being posted here. It's CICO. It's unfortunate the fitness and nutrition industries are so full of misinformation.
In your plan is in there any consideration to macronutrient percentages? Or is a calorie a calorie?

The thread starter has mentioned she has some medical conditions. I wondering if perhaps she is on some medications that might hindering her progress. She's also talked

Bodybuilders are the original biohackers, especially the old school ones, so I have learned to respect their input greatly.

She's mentioning working out on her elliptical but unless I'm missing something I haven't read anything about resistance training...Personally I'd rather superset weights for 20 or 30 mins than do stationary cardio. Thoughts?
 

Jenesis

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A lot of bullshit being posted here. It's CICO. It's unfortunate the fitness and nutrition industries are so full of misinformation.
Thank you. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills reading some of this.

Does natural eating help - yes
Are CICO able to be calculated exactly - no

but is the principle of CICO a proven scientific fact - yes. And by calculating as best you can, you can measure a bit better to assist you more. It is not rocket science. I was just calculating wrong when factoring, restricted calorie diet and exercise at the same time.
In your plan is in there any consideration to macronutrient percentages? Or is a calorie a calorie?

The thread starter has mentioned she has some medical conditions. I wondering if perhaps she is on some medications that might hindering her progress. She's also talked

Bodybuilders are the original biohackers, especially the old school ones, so I have learned to respect their input greatly.

She's mentioning working out on her elliptical but unless I'm missing something I haven't read anything about resistance training...Personally I'd rather superset weights for 20 or 30 mins than do stationary cardio. Thoughts?
The training will start November 1st. It’s coming. But that is mainly for muscle toning then weight lose. For my goal anyways. Which will make the numbers on the Scalia little different which is why I don't want to be scale dependent.

I break down my macros as well.

Also, I do 90 minutes of cardio for the endurance training as well as weight loss. Just putting that out there. I purposely maintain a certain heart rate for the duration. Which is about 150 bpm. And if I am being honest, I like it. I mean I don’t like it but I like it if that makes sense.

It wasn’t that I didn’t see results. I did last year when working out but about half way through I hit a wall and it was a struggle. I dropped to 20% of what I was losing monthly. I figured out I wasn’t eating enough last year when I did this. That is what I was trying to avoid. Squeezer helped me figure that out on Page 1. The rest of this thread has gone off the rails to my original question. I didn’t ask how to lose weight, I asked about calorie deficit with diet AND exercise. I did a calorie deficit and then worked out, not accounting for that deficit as well and just didn’t bring in enough of a calorie intake. It was like I was doubling up on the deficit. Great at first but not at the end and not really healthy either. So this winter, I want to do better and make it more even in my weight loss across the whole winter

In the summer I will take some of the suggestions to find my maintenance weight calories as that is where I struggled and pay more attention to the macros as I think that failed me as well in the summer.
 
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Jenesis

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Many people think they can do this on their own rather than seek professional help. It's obvious OP is making crucial mistakes in the process and can't understand why she isn't losing weight. Now she wants to be reaffirmed by this community that she isn't wrong.

Long story short: if you're failing at achieving your goal, hire a professional who will help you get there.
Again, I didn't fail. I lost the weight I wanted last winter. I didn't lose it how I wanted. I want to change that this winter. I will lose again this winter as well. I'm not worried about that.

Hopefully in the summer I will do better with maintenance, if not I will lose again next winter. I'm fine with that as well.

I don't know where you read that I said I failed. I never once said that. I wouldn’t have because I didn’t.
 
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Jenesis

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OP, you admit that you don't really understand how nutrition and weight loss works. Relying on a smart watch and advice from this board isn't the best way to go about it.

If you truly wish to understand how your body works, you need help from certified professionals (people with university degrees, not YouTube trained) who can read your blood works and test you gut flora. They'll advise you on best nutrition for YOU, beat way to excercise, things to avoid etc.

If you insist on doing it yourself, good luck.
Ok. I’m good. Thanks. I had one question. I got the answer. I don’t need to book a PT and dietician/nutritionist for that. LOL.

For the last time, I never said I rely on a smart watch. I use it as a guide only. I know it is not exact. I don’t rely on the nutrient labels. I use them as a guide. A baseline.
And as I get older - Shit is going to change repeatedly. From perimenopausal to menopausal to other medical issues, it is always going to be changing. I'm going to have to continue to adjust and I’m fine with that.

Trial and error is good for me from year to year. I’m not looking for perfection. You are taking this way more seriously then I am and it is my body. LOL.

I’m good. I got my answer to my simple question.
 
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Robert Mugabe

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Ok. I’m good. Thanks. I had one question. I got the answer. I don’t need to book a PT and dietician/nutritionist for that. LOL.

For the last time, I never said I rely on a smart watch. I use it as a guide only. I know it is not exact. I don’t rely on the nutrient labels. I use them as a guide. A baseline.
And as I get older - Shit is going to change repeatedly. From perimenopausal to menopausal to other medical issues, it is always going to be changing. I'm going to have to continue to adjust and I’m fine with that.

Trial and error is good for me from year to year. I’m not looking for perfection. You are taking this way more seriously then I am and it is my body. LOL.

I’m good. I got my answer to my simple question.
You just need a pep talk
 

Jenesis

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Which health app are you using. Any good free ones. I am an amatuer when it comes to nutrition, health and going to the gym
MyFitnessPal

has a free or paid premium option but you should be good with just free.
 
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barnacler

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If you burn 2,500 calories a day and consume 1,500, the IMPLIES that you WILL lose 2 pounds a week.

I see.

So that is 100 lbs a year. In a year and a half a 150 pound person will weigh approximately ZERO.

No, no they won't. And they won't starve to death either, because at 1,500 calories you can get all the nutrition you need. So the body will adjust in all kinds of ways to reduce expenditure. It does that as a survival mechanism. YOU WILL NOT STAY IN CALORIC DEFICIT.

There are quite clear studies that have documented this. The Minnesota Starvation Experiment.

Here is an excellent quote from "The Obesity Code" by Jason Fung. Basically he is saying that this simple model of Calories IN - Expenditure = Fat Formation is wrong.

"What determines the energy output of the system? Suppose we consume 2000 calories of chemical energy (food) in one day. what is the metabolic fate of those 2000 calories? Possibilities for their use include:

heat production
new protein production
new bone production
new muscle production
cognition(brain)
increased heart rate
increased stroke volume (heart)
exercise/ physical exertion
detoxification (liver)
detoxification (kidney)
digestion (pancreas, bowel)
breathing (lungs)
excretion(intestines and colon), and
fat production
...

There are an almost infinite number of ways that the body can dissipate excess energy instead of storing it as body fat.

With the model of the calorie-balancing scale, we assume that fat gain or loss essentially unregulated, and that weight gain and loss is under conscious control. But no system in the body is unregulated like that. Hormones tightly regulate every single system in the body. The thyroid, parathyroid, sympathetic, parasympathetic, respiratory, circulatory, hepatic, renal, gastrointestinal, and adrenal systems are all under hormonal control. So is body fat. The body actually has multiple systems to control body weight.

The problem of fat accumulation is really a problem of distribution of energy. Too much energy is diverted to fat production as opposed to, say, increasing body heat production. The vast majority of this energy expenditure is controlled automatically, with exercise being the only factor that is under our conscious control. For example, we cannot decide how much energy to expend on fat accumulation versus new bone formation. Since these metabolic processes are virtually impossible to measure, they are assumed to remain relatively stable. In particular, Calories Out is assumed to not change in response to Calories In. We presume the two are independent variables.

.....

Lets apply this reasoning to obesity. Reducing Calories in works only if Calories Out remains stable. What we find instead is that a sudden reduction in Calories In causes a similar reduction in Calories Out, and no weight is lost as the body balances its energy budget. Some historic experiments in calorie reduction have shown exactly this"

End of quote.

So as calories are reduced, the body has a problem. It has a set point for your weight. It also has a ton of other things it needs to expend energy on. But saving the body from starvation is pretty high up on the list! Tons of other systems can be reduced. And yes, if starvation is enforced severely and long enough, the fat will go. But the body has a grudge to grind. We do not live in a starvation society, there is no way in hell it is going to allow this state of affairs to continue. It will ensure that the systems are brought back to what it considers "safe'. Worse still, there is evidence that the body learns from the experience and, semi-permanently adjusts its fat goals higher to ensure that this never happens again.

In summary, the idea that fat level is the ONLY use of extra/less calories in is incorrect.
 

squeezer

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If you burn 2,500 calories a day and consume 1,500, the IMPLIES that you WILL lose 2 pounds a week.

I see.

So that is 100 lbs a year. In a year and a half a 150 pound person will weigh approximately ZERO.

No, no they won't. And they won't starve to death either, because at 1,500 calories you can get all the nutrition you need. So the body will adjust in all kinds of ways to reduce expenditure. It does that as a survival mechanism. YOU WILL NOT STAY IN CALORIC DEFICIT.

There are quite clear studies that have documented this. The Minnesota Starvation Experiment.

Here is an excellent quote from "The Obesity Code" by Jason Fung. Basically he is saying that this simple model of Calories IN - Expenditure = Fat Formation is wrong.

"What determines the energy output of the system? Suppose we consume 2000 calories of chemical energy (food) in one day. what is the metabolic fate of those 2000 calories? Possibilities for their use include:

heat production
new protein production
new bone production
new muscle production
cognition(brain)
increased heart rate
increased stroke volume (heart)
exercise/ physical exertion
detoxification (liver)
detoxification (kidney)
digestion (pancreas, bowel)
breathing (lungs)
excretion(intestines and colon), and
fat production
...

There are an almost infinite number of ways that the body can dissipate excess energy instead of storing it as body fat.

With the model of the calorie-balancing scale, we assume that fat gain or loss essentially unregulated, and that weight gain and loss is under conscious control. But no system in the body is unregulated like that. Hormones tightly regulate every single system in the body. The thyroid, parathyroid, sympathetic, parasympathetic, respiratory, circulatory, hepatic, renal, gastrointestinal, and adrenal systems are all under hormonal control. So is body fat. The body actually has multiple systems to control body weight.

The problem of fat accumulation is really a problem of distribution of energy. Too much energy is diverted to fat production as opposed to, say, increasing body heat production. The vast majority of this energy expenditure is controlled automatically, with exercise being the only factor that is under our conscious control. For example, we cannot decide how much energy to expend on fat accumulation versus new bone formation. Since these metabolic processes are virtually impossible to measure, they are assumed to remain relatively stable. In particular, Calories Out is assumed to not change in response to Calories In. We presume the two are independent variables.

.....

Lets apply this reasoning to obesity. Reducing Calories in works only if Calories Out remains stable. What we find instead is that a sudden reduction in Calories In causes a similar reduction in Calories Out, and no weight is lost as the body balances its energy budget. Some historic experiments in calorie reduction have shown exactly this"

End of quote.

So as calories are reduced, the body has a problem. It has a set point for your weight. It also has a ton of other things it needs to expend energy on. But saving the body from starvation is pretty high up on the list! Tons of other systems can be reduced. And yes, if starvation is enforced severely and long enough, the fat will go. But the body has a grudge to grind. We do not live in a starvation society, there is no way in hell it is going to allow this state of affairs to continue. It will ensure that the systems are brought back to what it considers "safe'. Worse still, there is evidence that the body learns from the experience and, semi-permanently adjusts its fat goals higher to ensure that this never happens again.

In summary, the idea that fat level is the ONLY use of extra/less calories in is incorrect.
Wow, Jason Fung, a kidney doctor making a killing selling books. Okay.....

Staying fit is a lifestyle, and it is about calories in and calories out to adjust fat levels. Take in a little more above your maintenance and the 6 pack goes to a 4 pack and you'd better cut those calories down or increase your energy expenditure by quite a bit to go back to that 6 pack or risk losing the 4 pack. It's really that simple.
 
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Jenesis

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Wow, Jason Fung, a kidney doctor making a killing selling books. Okay.....

Staying fit is a lifestyle, and it is about calories in and calories out to adjust fat levels. Take in a little more above your maintenance and the 6 pack goes to a 4 pack and you'd better cut those calories down or increase your energy expenditure by quite a bit to go back to that 6 pack or risk losing the 4 pack. It's really that simple.
I really didn’t think this thread would blow up and with so many “experts”.

I’m not saying I know everything but calories in/out is the most proven method and the one I prefer to follow. I made a few mistakes last year that I won’t make this year.

One of this is calories required change as your weight goes down. If you need 2000 at 175lb you may only need 1500 at 150lbs. Age also plays a factor in how many calories you need so. I didn’t take that into account last year. It is part of the reason people have trouble losing that last 10 lbs, they eat the same calories as they did when they were heavier, not realizing they need less. They think they have a 500 calorie deficit when really they may only have 100.

I’m not worried about losing weight. I don’t even have a goal weight in mind. I have a look and feel in mind. When I get to that, I will start maintenance. I will use @bodyshot method then to figure out maintenance calories for that weight at that time. Just not spending weeks doing it now when I know I will have enough of a deficit with my plan to make it work. Why delay a couple of weeks of weight loss when I don't have too
 
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barnacler

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Wow, Jason Fung, a kidney doctor making a killing selling books. Okay.....

Staying fit is a lifestyle, and it is about calories in and calories out to adjust fat levels. Take in a little more above your maintenance and the 6 pack goes to a 4 pack and you'd better cut those calories down or increase your energy expenditure by quite a bit to go back to that 6 pack or risk losing the 4 pack. It's really that simple.
Well, you have basically just ignored everything in my recent post and simply DECLARED it to be wrong, without refuting any of its points or logic.
 

barnacler

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I really didn’t think this thread would blow up and with so many “experts”.

I’m not saying I know everything but calories in/out is the most proven method and the one I prefer to follow. I made a few mistakes last year that I won’t make this year.

One of this is calories required change as your weight goes down. If you need 2000 at 175lb you may only need 1500 at 150lbs. Age also plays a factor in how many calories you need so. I didn’t take that into account last year. It is part of the reason people have trouble losing that last 10 lbs, they eat the same calories as they did when they were heavier, not realizing they need less. They think they have a 500 calorie deficit when really they may only have 100.

I’m not worried about losing weight. I don’t even have a goal weight in mind. I have a look and feel in mind. When I get to that, I will start maintenance. I will use @bodyshot method then to figure out maintenance calories for that weight at that time. Just not spending weeks doing it now when I know I will have enough of a deficit with my plan to make it work. Why delay a couple of weeks of weight loss when I don't have too
Ah, yes, it is proven to not work over longer time periods.

There is no "blowing up", it is merely people such as me are just making points that some people agree with, and some disagree with.
 

barnacler

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One option that should be considered by calorie counters: If you must count/control calories, go high, not low.

By that I mean, INCREASE your caloric intake, from say 2,000 to 2,500 calories a day, and then get your physical exercise up to 3,000.

Now. that's a lot, BUT...

You are definitely not starving. You have tons of wiggle room to be absolutely sure you are getting 100% of the nutrition you need. There is a lot of fuel in the system. But best of all, you can eat a lot, - more than usual! - you don't have that gnawing hunger feeling as you go to bed, your mood is way better. And you lose it much slower, your body doesn't go into shock like it does on a low-calorie plan. You are exercising with more energy. I feel that you get less pushback from your body.

Now, there are people that actually do this, and have for centuries:

The Amish.- they are out working physically all day, andn they eat a LOT!

.
 

Jenesis

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The irony of a calorie deficit post and it's going on five pages in what could have just been one page.
It was answered in 3-4 posts. LOL.

I'm almost ready to delete the whole thread now. It is getting way beyond what it needed to be.
 

squeezer

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It was answered in 3-4 posts. LOL.

I'm almost ready to delete the whole thread now. It is getting way beyond what it needed to be.
I wouldn't delete it. In the end, everyone can do what they feel works for them, even if they are wrong. LOL

One option that should be considered by calorie counters: If you must count/control calories, go high, not low.

By that I mean, INCREASE your caloric intake, from say 2,000 to 2,500 calories a day, and then get your physical exercise up to 3,000.


Do you really believe the average person trying to lose weight and get fitter can realistically burn 3,000 calories a day through exercise? That’s not happening unless we’re talking about athletes or someone training like one.

If you meant increasing to 3,000 calories because you’re exercising more, fine, but if the goal is fat loss, that’s still a mistake.

Someone earlier mentioned that when they’re in a calorie deficit, they can tell because they feel a little hungry during the day, and that’s absolutely true. It’s a simple and effective indicator. At the same time, filling up on low-calorie, high-volume foods goes a long way in keeping hunger in check and making it easier to stay consistent while your body’s asking for more.
 
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Robert Mugabe

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I really didn’t think this thread would blow up and with so many “experts”.

I’m not saying I know everything but calories in/out is the most proven method and the one I prefer to follow. I made a few mistakes last year that I won’t make this year.

One of this is calories required change as your weight goes down. If you need 2000 at 175lb you may only need 1500 at 150lbs. Age also plays a factor in how many calories you need so. I didn’t take that into account last year. It is part of the reason people have trouble losing that last 10 lbs, they eat the same calories as they did when they were heavier, not realizing they need less. They think they have a 500 calorie deficit when really they may only have 100.

I’m not worried about losing weight. I don’t even have a goal weight in mind. I have a look and feel in mind. When I get to that, I will start maintenance. I will use @bodyshot method then to figure out maintenance calories for that weight at that time. Just not spending weeks doing it now when I know I will have enough of a deficit with my plan to make it work. Why delay a couple of weeks of weight loss when I don't have too
What Is a Calorie Deficit? How to Calculate It for Weight Loss

There ya go.
 
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barnacler

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I wouldn't delete it. In the end, everyone can do what they feel works for them, even if they are wrong. LOL





Do you really believe the average person trying to lose weight and get fitter can realistically burn 3,000 calories a day through exercise? That’s not happening unless we’re talking about athletes or someone training like one.

If you meant increasing to 3,000 calories because you’re exercising more, fine, but if the goal is fat loss, that’s still a mistake.

Someone earlier mentioned that when they’re in a calorie deficit, they can tell because they feel a little hungry during the day, and that’s absolutely true. It’s a simple and effective indicator. At the same time, filling up on low-calorie, high-volume foods goes a long way in keeping hunger in check and making it easier to stay consistent while your body’s asking for more.
Your body is not your enemy, so why is it asking for more?

Well, the average person is pretty much becoming obese. But their genes haven't changed from hundreds of years ago. So that average person transported back in time would likely not be obese. They eat differently than their ancestors, and they have far less activity.

So your answer is , yes, the average person has it in them to live like their ancestors did.

No-one has addressed the Amish. They eat like elephants, but they are about 10 times less likely to be obese than the rest of the population.

And yes, I was referring to using exercise to bring you up to a total of 3000 calories.

It is so RIDICULUOUS that people think the natural way for humans to be healthy is to make themselves purposefully hungry more or less all the time. And when I say hungry, I mean hungry from caloric so-called deficit.

What other animal does that? Are you SERIOUSLY saying that the NATURAL, healthy state is to be hungry?

It isn't. it is to be very active, then be very hungry for a meal, have a nice big nutritious balanced dinner that is totally satisfying, then to do that every day.

The evidence shows so clearly that caloric deficit does not work LONG TERM, so there is zero point in going that route. How many times have I seen very heavy people getting all serious, going that route, losing 50, 75 pounds, then they gain it all back and more. There are a few exceptions, but not many.
 

squeezer

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The evidence shows so clearly that caloric deficit does not work LONG TERM, so there is zero point in going that route. How many times have I seen very heavy people getting all serious, going that route, losing 50, 75 pounds, then they gain it all back and more. There are a few exceptions, but not many.
Remember I said it's a lifestyle. When you reach your goal, you return to maintenance but should stay in place and as Greg says, "work harder than last time". AS I mentioned, you do your thing if it works, but I suspect you are carrying some extra poundage around the gut. Just a hunch.
 
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