Democracies are better

[flubadub]

No, it doesn't act as a democracy. In a democratic legislature the members are elected by the people. The members of the UN General Assembly are overwhelmingly appointed by dictators. That is not democracy.

I note that at the Communist Party of China's central committee "decisions are made in a democratic way", with voting to elect leaders, voting on policies and platforms, and so forth, but nobody in their right mind would call China a democracy precisely because the committee members are unelected, just like the members of the UN General Assembly are overwhelmingly unelected.

You need a basic civics lesson on what "democracy" is.

You could easily equate the lowest denomator as a country, as in one country = one person = one vote, in this case.
There are plenty of other councils and committees that would equate with legislature, but the one vote/one country is the best comparison and as such its easy to argue that the UN is democratic.
Its only you that thinks that some countries (or some people) shouldn't get the vote.
that's democracy

 

[WoodPeckr]

Wrong again, the troops will be much appreciated to your patriotic duty when you channel your energy to confront WBC like your "Rabbi" Michael.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_fAYl4Th4

No, you cannot do it. Why?

Again you make NO sense as you meander off into your own 'special' little world, little one!...

Go have a beer with JAJA.
Have a feeling he will like you a lot....
You two have much in common.

 

[slowandeasy]

No, it doesn't act as a democracy. In a democratic legislature the members are elected by the people. The members of the UN General Assembly are overwhelmingly appointed by dictators. That is not democracy.

I note that at the Communist Party of China's central committee "decisions are made in a democratic way", with voting to elect leaders, voting on policies and platforms, and so forth, but nobody in their right mind would call China a democracy precisely because the committee members are unelected, just like the members of the UN General Assembly are overwhelmingly unelected.

You need a basic civics lesson on what "democracy" is.

At some point, I will take the time to understand the political landscape a little better. However, in this case you seem to believe that what we have in North America is the definition of democracy. It is not. We have a system that is a representative democracy. That representative democracy is further compromised by the fact that in Canada, these respresentatives are part of a specific Political Party. These representatives must vote with their political party or risk being thrown out of their party. In a sense these political parties act like Dictators... In that sense, we are not really a democracy at all, now are we????

 

[blackrock13]

At some point, I will take the time to understand the political landscape a little better. However, in this case you seem to believe that what we have in North America is the definition of democracy. It is not. We have a system that is a representative democracy. That representative democracy is further compromised by the fact that in Canada, these respresentatives are part of a specific Political Party. These representatives must vote with their political party or risk being thrown out of their party. In a sense these political parties act like Dictators... In that sense, we are not really a democracy at all, now are we????

In its most basic essence, democracy is simply my gang is bigger than your gang. As somebody said earlier the UN isn't perfect, but it's better than the alternative.

Fuji as usual just continues to try and muddy things up using his warped narcissistic viewpoint on so many things.

 

[fuji]

You could easily equate the lowest denomator as a country

Yes, and that's called dictatorship.

 

[fuji]

At some point, I will take the time to understand the political landscape a little better. However, in this case you seem to believe that what we have in North America is the definition of democracy.

Nope. There are around 30 democracies in the world and they are not all exactly like what we have in North America. Beyond that there are another 50 or so that are pretty democratic but with some serious flaws in their democracy. The world thus has somewhere been 30 and 80 democracies depending on just where you draw the line. There are some remarkable differences between them but they all involve the people voting for those who run the government.

For two examples, Switzerland has a democracy quite different from what we've got in North America, but recognized by pretty much everyone as being a strong democracy. The Philippines has a system quite similar to the one in the US, with democratic processes, but serious flaws--there's a lot of evidence of corruption and tampering there. Switzerland is one of the 30 or so nations that everybody recognizes as democratic. The Philippines is sometimes counted as a democracy, sometimes not, depending on how strict you are being.

The essence of democracy is the people in one way or another controlling the government.

That is simply not the case with the UN, where the overwhelming number of UN representatives are selected by dictators rather than by a process based on free and fair elections. By most definitions of democracy there are 30 to 50 in the world, which means only 15% to 25% of the representatives at the UN GA are selected democratically. Even with a very lax definition of democracy, counting around 80 nations, that's still less than half the votes at the 192 seat UN General Assembly.

The UN is NOT a democracy. Whatever else it may be, it's not democratic.

 

[fuji]

Fuji as usual just continues to try and muddy things up using his warped narcissistic viewpoint on so many things.

Do you consider it "warped" and "narcissistic" to believe that democracy means having a government that is selected by, or otherwise controlled by, the people???????

Please show me a definition of democracy that does not vest power in the people.

 

[flubadub]

The UN is NOT a democracy. Whatever else it may be, it's not democratic.

Wrong.
The UN is a democracy, everyone votes.
You may have issues with who votes, but everyone votes. The UN includes virtually every state on the planet, 192 at last count.
You can complain about other gov't's but if you want an institution that represents the world, this is it.

 

[hinz]

Again you make NO sense as you meander off into your own 'special' little world, little one!...

Go have a beer with JAJA.
Have a feeling he will like you a lot....
You two have much in common.

LOL, why can't you follow the footstep like Rabbi Michael? Are you suggesting intolerance to not-straight brothers in arms?

Sounds like Rabbi Michael lives up his motto to respect diversity, be racial and sexual orientation, while you fail miserably on these issues.

No wonder Rabbi Michael does not see you as his kind of people.

 

[fuji]

Wrong.
The UN is a democracy, everyone votes.

Nope. For example, then 1.2 billion people in China don't vote. You plainly fail at understanding the concept of "democracy", which isn't surprising. Your failure to grasp the concept of democracy would explain why you made that idiotic argument that Iran is a democracy, despite being ruled by a Supreme Tyrant.

 

[flubadub]

Nope. For example, then 1.2 billion people in China don't vote.

China is a member of the UN and votes.
Sure the Chinese could and should have better gov't, but that's their problem.
But they still have a vote in the UN, because that's democracy in action at the UN.

 

[fuji]

China is a member of the UN and votes.

Yes.

Sure the Chinese could and should have better gov't, but that's their problem.

Yes.

But they still have a vote in the UN

Yes--and there's the problem.

because that's democracy in action at the UN.

No. You just admitted their representation is non-democratic. Their vote at the UN represents the dictators that run China, and not the Chinese people.

Compare and contrast with, say, the Swedish vote at the UN, where the Swedish ambassador is appointed by the elected representatives of the Swedish people. The Swedish vote at the UN is democratic. The Chinese vote at the UN is not.

No matter how you wriggle and writhe you aren't going to convince anybody that you can have a democracy that leaves out the people.

 

[flubadub]

No matter how you wriggle and writhe you aren't going to convince anybody that you can have a democracy that leaves out the people.

And how would you propose to have an organization represent the world, if it leaves out half of the countries?

 

[fuji]

And how would you propose to have an organization represent the world, if it leaves out half of the countries?

I don't. I simply point out that the UN is not democratic. That's just a fact, whether you like it or not.

Organizations like UN HRC and ICC would be improved by kicking out the non-democracies, though. Especially in the case of ICC, where we are supposed to cede power to a court--it sure as hell better be democratic in that case. Why should citizens of democracies, which are better, cede power to a body run by dictators, which are worse? That's a step backwards.

 

[flubadub]

I don't. I simply point out that the UN is not democratic. That's just a fact, whether you like it or not.

Organizations like UN HRC and ICC would be improved by kicking out the non-democracies, though. Especially in the case of ICC, where we are supposed to cede power to a court--it sure as hell better be democratic in that case. Why should citizens of democracies, which are better, cede power to a body run by dictators, which are worse? That's a step backwards.

Your plan would not further world peace, it would look like more colonialism.
The UN is not perfect, but its the best we've got.

 

[fuji]

Why should citizens in democratic countries give up hard won rights? Why on earth would we want to cede court jurisdiction to dictatorships????? Absurd.

Similarly the clown show at the UN HRC is not doing anybody any good. It would be better if that group were run by people who actually respect human rights.

 

[flubadub]

Hey Fuji, can you explain to me how this works.
The American public is very much against Afghanistan, they would vote against it, given the chance.
And Gates says in response:

Defense Secretary Robert Gates says the U.S. can't let public opinion sway its commitment to Afghanistan.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101216/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_afghanistan_public_opinion

Explain to me how democracy is representing the will of the people?

 

[fuji]

Explain to me how democracy is representing the will of the people?

Take a civics lesson, idiot. Now you're against democracy...

No shit you're a supporter of tyrants and dictators, and undemocratic things like Hamas and Iran.

 

[flubadub]

Take a civics lesson, idiot. Now you're against democracy...

No shit you're a supporter of tyrants and dictators, and undemocratic things like Hamas and Iran.

That's your answer?
Pathetic.

So the American public is against the Afghan war and the head of the war, Gates says the will of the people doesn't count and you tell me I'm against democracy? I'm just asking you to explain how democratic representation doesn't seem to be working in the US.

 

[blackrock13]

Do you consider it "warped" and "narcissistic" to believe that democracy means having a government that is selected by, or otherwise controlled by, the people???????

Please show me a definition of democracy that does not vest power in the people.

In its most basic essence, democracy is simply my gang is bigger than your gang. As somebody said earlier the UN isn't perfect, but it's better than the alternative.

Fuji as usual just continues to try and muddy things up using his warped narcissistic viewpoint on so many things.

It's interesting how you cherry picked my quote and eliminated the main part of my comment, but that's what you do.

There are approximately 210 countries in the world, depending on who's definition that you use. 193 countries and 8 states have representation at the UN. There are 70 recognized dictatorships in the world, certain not the large faction as some to want us to believe. There are approximately 40 democracies in the world, again depending on the definition used. so almost 100 countries have various other type of government and representation; the other 6 representative types of governments. So the UN is not dominated by dictatorships. I know Fuji's going to argue this, right or wrong, but what else is new.

It would be nice to think that in a perfect democracy everyone gets a vote, but that just can't not exist. It's too cumbersome to have a series of referendums to make every decision for a country business. This whole country would ground to a full stop. There isn't a country in the world that has every adult have a vote let alone every person. so we vote for preventatives to go to the capital to talk and vote on our behalf using a number of different voting system each with their own strengths and weaknesses. These representatives talk on our behalf on their national level and a few of them talk for us on an international stage. Other governments do the same thing. They select representatives to the make decisions and pass on the government policies on various international stage; the G8, G20, G30, Le Francaphonie, WTO, ASEAN, EU, OPEC AND the UN.

The UN is not perfect but it's the best we have for now.