And again......why is the USA the one to determine this as well? And please spare us the moral argument at this point. The USA has repeatedly proven itself to be an exploiterv and not a liberator.
Cuba may fall
- Thread starter Butler1000
- Start date
And even one of those was due to internal forces and not outside interference by an exploiter
1) We have millions of Cuban refugees with family in Cuba who have influence.
2) We are likely the only nation who can actually be a catalyst for change in Cuba.
3) I don't really see big economic upside for the U.S. with a friendlier Cuban regime.
I said there are no black and white answers. One could ask how do you know if the local Cuban population wants us to stay out of Cuban affairs.
Certitude can be arrogance.
PS- I'm reminded of a history lesson that doesn't perfectly fit this situation but begs some thought. The Thirteen American colonies were British in 1775. That is a fact. As much a fact that Canada was British. The French government lent significant military support to the American rebels to defeat British rule.
Self determination is absolutely required
The Cuban people will reject any continuance of the communist nightmare that has impoverished them
Cuba needs capital and the US is a natural trade partner
That does not mean they have to invite the US mafia back in or have a Starbucks on every corner
The French helped the Americans because France was at war with Britain and it served their interest to help
a few year before, the the French were paying the Huron for scalps from the Americans who identified as English then
the eastern bloc countries certainty did not choose to be commie
and they all punted that evil system just as soon as was possible
communism is an evil, inhuman and barbaric form of governance
While there are always people on social media who sympathize with Cuba, China, Venezuela, etc. I do think Butler believes American intervention often works out badly.
I don't agree with his America the exploiter claim. I don't always think there is much economic incentive for the U.S. in many of these situations.
If you think the U.S. needs another Caribbean travel destination to build hotels and resorts, that's an oversimplification of the situation. If Cuba becomes a more desirable tourist destination, it will because a future Cuban government truly welcomes U.S. and other foreign investment. Some of you know current foreign investment in Cuba has to adhere to strict govt. regulations and "co-ownership" sort of speak.
There are a host of countries (some JohnLarue listed) where U.S. pressure led to more freedom for various peoples around the world.
The USA benefit? No. Certain donors who thrive on insider trading, arms deals, clansdine resource exploitation, and other nefarious shit.
Oh ya. Cripes this administration is involved in that Polymarket shit now.
They are about to spend billions on Iran, why?
I used to believe that, and then the 2008 financial crisis happened. I saw incompetence rewarded, not punished. Fast forward a couple of decades, and I see corrupt governments that are bought by foreign interests. And then, to top it all off, I see the Epstein blackmail plan.
The democracy you speak of does not exist.
democracy and capitalism are not perfect
they are however far superior to the alternatives
just count the dead bodies communism and totalitarianism piled up n the 20th century and you will know I am right
Can we send you a basket? It would seem you need one to carry that load.
Cuba is small potatoes and a more open regime would be encouraging European, Canadian, South American investment as well as the U.S. The opportunities for capital would be split up by many.
Iran? Theocratic Iran is a threat to the entire Mideast. The Mideast oil supply is vital to the world economy. Like it or not, the U.S. protects that supply line for Europe and Asia.
Uh huh.....do you really think Trump in any way is looking at Cuba altruistically?
All they see is an exploitable work force on an island where they can set the lack of labor laws. Build a playground, especially for the rich, sell prime beach land off, and control the govt.
Just like pre Castro.
And Iran looks at what happened to Libya, Iraq and Syria and sees what their future is. This is about Israel wagging the USA dog. The USA is basically Israel's bitch now.
Btw, as an aside, how do you think 100,000's of refugees will be welcomed in Florida?
I think you have basically set-up a straw man of somewhat comfortable existences for the people of Cuba and Iran. Can't really argue with that if you truly believe that. As I said, neither of us know what the Cuban people want. You can project things, but they lack that witness.
Cuba is not some economic bonanza for evil capitalists. You have to live with and know Cuban-Americans. They carry around a lot of anger. They also are in contact with the people on the island. It's just a unique situation.
By the way, Caribbean beaches, resorts, casinos, etc. are not so special. Rich and middle-class people play over the world now. There's nothing exceptional about Cuba anymore. I think you have been watching Godfather II.
Iraq was a mess, but again I am not sure the people aren't better off and happier with their government. Iraq was three ethnicities united under a common oppression. Same pretty much goes for Libya. I'm not sure why you mention Syria. I think you threw Syria in because you were kitchen sinking.
Last edited:
It's discerning when people project some type of comfortable lives in these countries. Stability achieved through oppression is granted status.
