Cuba may fall
- Thread starter Butler1000
- Start date
While there are always people on social media who sympathize with Cuba, China, Venezuela, etc. I do think Butler believes American intervention often works out badly.
I don't agree with his America the exploiter claim. I don't always think there is much economic incentive for the U.S. in many of these situations.
If you think the U.S. needs another Caribbean travel destination to build hotels and resorts, that's an oversimplification of the situation. If Cuba becomes a more desirable tourist destination, it will because a future Cuban government truly welcomes U.S. and other foreign investment. Some of you know current foreign investment in Cuba has to adhere to strict govt. regulations and "co-ownership" sort of speak.
There are a host of countries (some JohnLarue listed) where U.S. pressure led to more freedom for various peoples around the world.
The USA benefit? No. Certain donors who thrive on insider trading, arms deals, clansdine resource exploitation, and other nefarious shit.
Oh ya. Cripes this administration is involved in that Polymarket shit now.
They are about to spend billions on Iran, why?
I used to believe that, and then the 2008 financial crisis happened. I saw incompetence rewarded, not punished. Fast forward a couple of decades, and I see corrupt governments that are bought by foreign interests. And then, to top it all off, I see the Epstein blackmail plan.
The democracy you speak of does not exist.
All government is corrupt this isn't anything new. If you had to pick between a nation that's democratic or communist you'd probably pick demo. If you had to pick between capitalism and socialism you'd most likely pick capitalism.
You're some rich business man in Russia when Putin took over and gave oligarchs a choice otherwise telling them to leave Russia then you pick if you wanna support your country or not since the government used you as an ATM.
The government is generally made of folks who were already rich and have power or folks who wanna become rich and have power.
All party leaders in North America deal with corruption but would you rather start a business in North America to become rich or try in Cuba where chances are a lot less?
You're some rich business man in Russia when Putin took over and gave oligarchs a choice otherwise telling them to leave Russia then you pick if you wanna support your country or not since the government used you as an ATM.
The government is generally made of folks who were already rich and have power or folks who wanna become rich and have power.
All party leaders in North America deal with corruption but would you rather start a business in North America to become rich or try in Cuba where chances are a lot less?
democracy and capitalism are not perfect
they are however far superior to the alternatives
just count the dead bodies communism and totalitarianism piled up n the 20th century and you will know I am right
Can we send you a basket? It would seem you need one to carry that load.
Cuba is small potatoes and a more open regime would be encouraging European, Canadian, South American investment as well as the U.S. The opportunities for capital would be split up by many.
Iran? Theocratic Iran is a threat to the entire Mideast. The Mideast oil supply is vital to the world economy. Like it or not, the U.S. protects that supply line for Europe and Asia.
Uh huh.....do you really think Trump in any way is looking at Cuba altruistically?
All they see is an exploitable work force on an island where they can set the lack of labor laws. Build a playground, especially for the rich, sell prime beach land off, and control the govt.
Just like pre Castro.
And Iran looks at what happened to Libya, Iraq and Syria and sees what their future is. This is about Israel wagging the USA dog. The USA is basically Israel's bitch now.
Btw, as an aside, how do you think 100,000's of refugees will be welcomed in Florida?
I think you have basically set-up a straw man of somewhat comfortable existences for the people of Cuba and Iran. Can't really argue with that if you truly believe that. As I said, neither of us know what the Cuban people want. You can project things, but they lack that witness.
Cuba is not some economic bonanza for evil capitalists. You have to live with and know Cuban-Americans. They carry around a lot of anger. They also are in contact with the people on the island. It's just a unique situation.
By the way, Caribbean beaches, resorts, casinos, etc. are not so special. Rich and middle-class people play over the world now. There's nothing exceptional about Cuba anymore. I think you have been watching Godfather II.
Iraq was a mess, but again I am not sure the people aren't better off and happier with their government. Iraq was three ethnicities united under a common oppression. Same pretty much goes for Libya. I'm not sure why you mention Syria. I think you threw Syria in because you were kitchen sinking.
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It's discerning when people project some type of comfortable lives in these countries. Stability achieved through oppression is granted status.
A shame the US has now taken to bombing boats, even using second hits to finish off survivors and starving people to get its way. USA USA USA
That's what corrupt governments tell you so you never bother fighting corruption.
Its still your choice to accept it or not.
I'm not gonna waste my time and energy fighting corruption/scandals in Canada & US along with protesting or something. I'd rather make money and enjoy life. If things got extremely bad in Canada or USA that's a whole diff story.
Does much change or something drastic happen when government officials debate each other and do hearings? Not really.
I've chosen democracy and capitalism. There no such thing as some utopia nation quite frankly as that's highly unrealistic.
Canada, a few years back was in Afghanistan helping out folks. There's most likely people who say they didn't do much good and it was better when the Taliban was running things.
Does much change or something drastic happen when government officials debate each other and do hearings? Not really.
I've chosen democracy and capitalism. There no such thing as some utopia nation quite frankly as that's highly unrealistic.
Canada, a few years back was in Afghanistan helping out folks. There's most likely people who say they didn't do much good and it was better when the Taliban was running things.
C'mon Wyatt, you know this is a Rubio vanity project, and the disaster capitalists will love it, especially if a bunch of rebuilding projects need contracts. They don't actually care if it succeeds, just that money is available. It's just as likely to end up another Haiti, but I genuinely don't think they really care. It's much easier to grift in chaos.
I threw in Syria because that was a US destabilize project as well. On behalf of Israel.
But back to Cuba if it does fall it won't just be a matter of sending in a couple of tankers to right things. It will fall apart, and the refugees will come. How kind will ICE be to them I wonder?
I suspect Cuban refugees would arrive in Florida regardless of how the regime fell.
You don't want the Cuban regime to rule indefinitely, do you?
I want to double back to your negative perspective on U.S. investment. It's hard to argue with idealism, but here it goes.
What kind of future economy do you see for Cuba? Subsistence farming? Or more tourism and perhaps Cuban retirees?
How do you see a Cuban economy that differs from other Caribbean islands?
It's not enough to tell us what you don't like. What are the alternatives? Or perhaps you're fine with the status quo for Cuba.
It's not up to me to decide. But I think the Cuban people want self determination. And then probably a hybrid socialist state with capitalist parts. I think Democratic socialism is a better term.
What they likely don't want is massive foreign ownership and govt influence. Their beaches sold off to the highest bidders. It's absolutely not an easy road.
The best thing the USA could have done was to open up relations and gradually drop sanctions. Allow for some small percentage of USA investment that likely the Cubans would have allowed. In tourism. And then gradually use some foreign aid packages to upgrade infrastructure. Mostly from Europe and other places. From there it becomes natural for a growing middle class to start demanding reform.
What they are doing now is likely to create Haiti 2.0
