Cowards

[HOF]

I can easily make blanket statements.

Your reading comprehension isn't very good, you must have gone to York. Both of your statements I answered.

I would have acted and I would risk a bullet to help someone. You don't know me. You enjoy reading your own rhetoric. I didn't affirm any of your comments as you stated NOBODY (do you work for badboy). I said most will not act. Don't confuse the two words and don't speak for me.

 

[GotGusto]

Your reading comprehension isn't very good, you must have gone to York. Both of your statements I answered.

I would have acted and I would risk a bullet to help someone. You don't know me. You enjoy reading your own rhetoric. I didn't affirm any of your comments as you stated NOBODY (do you work for badboy). I said most will not act. Don't confuse the two words and don't speak for me.

Poetic license.

Look, if you're willing to get in the face of two robbers who may be armed, so be it. I hope you don't have young kids, because they may find themselves without a dad some day. Your reaction would be uncalled for and in my opinion, very stupid.

 

[HOF]

100% that nobody would react? No such study exists.

Now, you contradict your earlier statements that studies have proven and that it's science. Where are your studies and scientific results that you were so adamant about?

 

[GotGusto]

Now, you contradict your earlier statements that studies have proven and that it's science. Where are your studies and scientific results that you were so adamant about?

Well since you're intent on it, I didn't say "nobody" would react. I said that "nobody here" would. Although, the study on Terbites hasn't been conducted yet.

In fact, I also stated that rare individuals would.

Judging by your attitude, I'm entirely unconvinced that you would do anything but hide in a corner. You come off as a total utter coward. Big talkers = giant wet pussies.

 

[GotGusto]

Even if I were armed, I doubt I'd take a risk. You may not only cause harm to yourself or the criminals but to innocent people nearby. On top of that, should you kill or injure even just the criminals, you'll be facing all kinds of legal drama. However, if criminals were in my home robbing me, I'd shoot without hesitation.

The safest wisest bet, is to let them rob the old guy (they're robbing him, not murdering him), then alert authorities when they've run off with their chump change. Provide the police with the descriptions and let them handle it from there.

 

[Manji]

Can I disarm someone with a weapon? Yes Can I restrain/contain and inflict pain if required? Yes Could I get hurt in the process? Yes, but I also know how to minimize attacks and injuries

.

Out of curiosity....

What training have you had? For how long?
Have you ever disarmed someone with a weapon (in a real life situation)?

You seem very certain of yourself and your skills....

I think answering "Yes" to all those questions seems rather naive or foolish....

No matter how well trained you are things can go wrong....A punk with a weapon is still dangerous and you can't predict how he is going to react (and many punks/criminals have experience in real violent situations and and nothing beats real life experience)....And if there is more than one criminal and more than one weapon its gonna be a difficult situation (and that may be an understatement)....

That being said....
Would I intervene in a situation? Yes
Though I understand if I enter a situation (like the one that occurred in the TTC) at best I may escape unscathed and help the victim but at worst I could end up dead or severely injured...Even with training there is no guarantee things will work out well for me....

 

[HOF]

Poetic license.

Look, if you're willing to get in the face of two robbers who may be armed, so be it. I hope you don't have young kids, because they may find themselves without a dad some day. Your reaction would be uncalled for and in my opinion, very stupid.

You're quite entitled to your opinion and I will acknowledge that because that is how you feel and I can respect that. You made blanketed statements that you cannot confirm that is the only point that I dispute. Now, would you react differently if it was your relative or friend? Would you expect an off duty police or corrections officer or military personell to react? Would you react if someone was attempting to take a child? Would you react if someone was stealing your property?

FYI, unattached, no dependents and not interested in either. If my situation changed then I may change as well.

 

[HOF]

Well since you're intent on it, I didn't say "nobody" would react. I said that "nobody here" would. Although, the study on Terbites hasn't been conducted yet.

In fact, I also stated that rare individuals would.

Judging by your attitude, I'm entirely unconvinced that you would do anything but hide in a corner. You come off as a total utter coward. Big talkers = giant wet pussies.

Yes, you did say "here" and you also said there are studies and scientific evidence then you confirmed that no such study has been conducted. You come off as someone that has no regard for others and unaccepting of opinions other than your own. No need for the serious name calling, it was a healthy dialogue until you resorted to name calling.

 

[GotGusto]

You're quite entitled to your opinion and I will acknowledge that because that is how you feel and I can respect that. You made blanketed statements that you cannot confirm that is the only point that I dispute. Now, would you react differently if it was your relative or friend? Would you expect an off duty police or corrections officer or military personell to react? Would you react if someone was attempting to take a child? Would you react if someone was stealing your property?

FYI, unattached, no dependents and not interested in either. If my situation changed then I may change as well.

Every situation is unique. In the situation pointed out by the OP, I would not have done anything other than alert law enforcement immediately afterward. A robbery, however unfortunate for the old man, is not worth dying over. And I'm not in the least bit fearful of death - I'm simply enjoying life and I want to enjoy it for awhile longer. I fear nothing in this world besides failure and physical torture, and even those can be endured.

If I were with a friend or relative, I'd tell that friend and relative to give the robbers what they ask for - money, your shoes, whatever.

I don't know how an officer or military person would react. I suppose they would react in a way that they believe would minimize a disastrous outcome. An officer or military man may be able to easily subdue a lone robber, but the fact that there are two robbers complicates things. You get one robber down, now the other one is fearful - he may run off or start firing out of fear (if he has a weapon - the great unknown). My guess is that neither would react in the situation described by the OP. Too many variables to consider. That's my opinion - I don't believe there are concrete right or wrong answers to this situation, only judgement calls.

Maybe only cowards were riding the subway when this happened, but I don't think so. I believe that most of them are like most Terbites. People aren't so different from each other.

 

[HOF]

Out of curiosity....

What training have you had? For how long?
Have you ever disarmed someone with a weapon (in a real life situation)?

You seem very certain of yourself and your skills....

I think answering "Yes" to all those questions seems rather naive or foolish....

No matter how well trained you are things can go wrong....A punk with a weapon is still dangerous and you can't predict how he is going to react (and many punks/criminals have experience in real violent situations and and nothing beats real life experience)....And if there is more than one criminal and more than one weapon its gonna be a difficult situation (and that may be an understatement)....

That being said....
Would I intervene in a situation? Yes
Though I understand if I enter a situation (like the one that occurred in the TTC) at best I may escape unscathed and help the victim but at worst I could end up dead or severely injured...Even with training there is no guarantee things will work out well for me....

I am very certain of my skills if I'm not then I'm in trouble. With that said, it doesn't mean that I couldn't be injured, mamed or worse; however, that is an inherit risk. Unfortunately, the profession has scenarios with weapons on a fairly regular basis (monthly), and yes, one time while off duty. Two other scenarios where restraint was used.
Answers to your questions: 20 plus years

Your other statement is puzzling. You say that you would intervene, yet you also say that answering yes to your questions is naive/foolish? Is that not an oxymoron?

There is a bottom line. Yes, I would react and yes I understand it could be my last reaction to anything. Agree/disagree doesn't matter.

 

[GotGusto]

Yes, you did say "here" and you also said there are studies and scientific evidence then you confirmed that no such study has been conducted. You come off as someone that has no regard for others and unaccepting of opinions other than your own. No need for the serious name calling, it was a healthy dialogue until you resorted to name calling.

I apologize for any real or unintended insults that I may have directed toward you.

 

[HOF]

Every situation is unique. In the situation pointed out by the OP, I would not have done anything other than alert law enforcement immediately afterward. A robbery, however unfortunate for the old man, is not worth dying over. And I'm not in the least bit fearful of death - I'm simply enjoying life and I want to enjoy it for awhile longer. I fear nothing in this world besides failure and physical torture, and even those can be endured.

If I were with a friend or relative, I'd tell that friend and relative to give the robbers what they ask for - money, your shoes, whatever.

I don't know how an officer or military person would react. I suppose they would react in a way that they believe would minimize a disastrous outcome. An officer or military man may be able to easily subdue a lone robber, but the fact that there are two robbers complicates things. You get one robber down, now the other one is fearful - he may run off or start firing out of fear (if he has a weapon - the great unknown). My guess is that neither would react in the situation described by the OP. Too many variables to consider. That's my opinion - I don't believe there are concrete right or wrong answers to this situation, only judgement calls.

Maybe only cowards were riding the subway when this happened, but I don't think so. I believe that most of them are like most Terbites. People aren't so different from each other.

Now, you're thinking openly. You would have done more than you know. Calling 911 is huge, you probably would have helped the victim and stayed with him until help arrived. Again, you're entitled to your opinion and I respect that. Yes, I too would like to stick around for awhile, and I certainly wouldn't judge someone for not reacting.

I also agree it's better to just hand it over. Keep in mind many seniors react differently because of independence, and I mean that in a good way; it's hard getting older for many.

It's judgment, timing and opportunity; there are no right or wrong answers. I don't believe anyone was a coward sometimes people just don't care. That's just a sad situation for all of us.


Often from failure comes success.

 

[HOF]

I apologize for any real or unintended insults that I may have directed toward you.

I apologize for anything that was directly or indirectly insulting to you too. Maybe not the York comment Just kidding!

 

[The Oracle]

I apologize for any real or unintended insults that I may have directed toward you.

I apologize for anything that was directly or indirectly insulting to you too. Maybe not the York comment Just kidding!

And all is well in Terb land once again.

 

[james t kirk]

Bah, I've had a gun pointed right at my pointie little head. Many years ago, I was maybe 20, I walked into a variety store (Target Variety up on the Mountain - it was a big variety story - like the size of a Rabba Foods) in Hamilton that was in the process of being robbed. I walked in, DID NOT EVEN REALIZE WHAT WAS GOING ON. You're not trained, you don't know. I became aware of a whole lot of shouting going on, and only figured it out when I saw the clerk standing there with his hands up, and a guy pointing a gun at him. And just as I figured out what the fuck was going on, the punk figured out that I was there. He comes flying over at me, levels the gun at me and SCREAMS at me to get to the side of the store. At that point, I still didn't know what to do, or how to react. All I did was say "OK", and move away - my mind racing. I didn't have time to figure out a plan. I'll never forget my friend, he said, "No problem buddy, no problem".

Anyway, guys goes flying out the door, we called the cops.

They were there within 60 seconds.

You still can't believe what just happened. Later on, you start formulating a plan, getting all tough, etc.

Horseshit - you can have the money, I'm not going to worry about it

 

[james t kirk]

BTW, 2 weeks later, same punk robbed another store in Hamilton. This time, the cops just happened to be in the area. Punk levels the gun at the cop, cop shoots him full of holes.

End of story for one Thomislav Dosen. (And yes, it was a real gun that he had.)

(You might be able to google that to see that I'm not full of shit.)

The moral of my story was that in my case, I didn't even know WHAT was happening. You don't have time to figure out a plan, and it certainly was not worth getting all Dirty Harry about.

As to the old guy in question, it's a sad story, I'd like to think I'd have helped, but you need time to figure out what you're going to do and allot of times, you don't have time. I certainly would have helped him afterwards, or called 911, or stopped the train.

 

[Ironhead]

Bah, I've had a gun pointed right at my pointie little head. Many years ago, I was maybe 20, I walked into a variety store (Target Variety up on the Mountain - it was a big variety story - like the size of a Rabba Foods) in Hamilton that was in the process of being robbed. I walked in, DID NOT EVEN REALIZE WHAT WAS GOING ON. You're not trained, you don't know. I became aware of a whole lot of shouting going on, and only figured it out when I saw the clerk standing there with his hands up, and a guy pointing a gun at him. And just as I figured out what the fuck was going on, the punk figured out that I was there. He comes flying over at me, levels the gun at me and SCREAMS at me to get to the side of the store. At that point, I still didn't know what to do, or how to react. All I did was say "OK", and move away - my mind racing. I didn't have time to figure out a plan. I'll never forget my friend, he said, "No problem buddy, no problem".

Anyway, guys goes flying out the door, we called the cops.

They were there within 60 seconds.

You still can't believe what just happened. Later on, you start formulating a plan, getting all tough, etc.

Horseshit - you can have the money, I'm not going to worry about it

There is a different consideration. A weapon is visible, now I do not know what I would do. It changes the situation. If all went according to the way James T said, I would have called police if the store personal did not after the gunman/men leave.

BTW, 2 weeks later, same punk robbed another store in Hamilton. This time, the cops just happened to be in the area. Punk levels the gun at the cop, cop shoots him full of holes.

End of story for one Thomislav Dosen. (And yes, it was a real gun that he had.)

(You might be able to google that to see that I'm not full of shit.)

The moral of my story was that in my case, I didn't even know WHAT was happening. You don't have time to figure out a plan, and it certainly was not worth getting all Dirty Harry about.

As to the old guy in question, it's a sad story, I'd like to think I'd have helped, but you need time to figure out what you're going to do and allot of times, you don't have time. I certainly would have helped him afterwards, or called 911, or stopped the train.

Understood, it does take time to react. Also have to figure out if it is real or just a group of guys talking.

It depends on how long the incident lasted. Once it is figured out that a robbery is in progress it may be over before you can do anything about the thugs, but you can help the victim and/or press the Emergency Strip after the fact.
Depending on how long the incident lasts would dictate whether or not to say or do anything involving the punks.

 

[sweetcookie]

Now, you contradict your earlier statements that studies have proven and that it's science. Where are your studies and scientific results that you were so adamant about?

I just saw a documentary the other night about why people "go with the herd",many studies,experiments,social set ups,scenarios,experiences and live videos were spoken of and shown to prove the theory.It was prompted by the recent death of the gentleman dying in the street and people simply walking by and staring.In University I had a Sociology course and we often discussed this very thing.Myself,I just don't get it.I may be one of the apples in a sea of oranges as I would DEFINITELY have helped the man in any way imaginable.I hope to god nothing like that ever happens to me,what a horrible way to die.I feel sick inside.

 

[GotGusto]

Do you live in a State where the laws allow you to do that? I know in Canada, if you did that and killed a burglar, it would be YOU going to jail. (I'd scare them away if I had my rifle or shotgun in my hand).

I know that's the law in Canada, however there is somebody on my property in my house going thru my shit uninvited. I'd take my chances and argue self defense.

 

[GotGusto]

Was everybody on this subway a coward? Why didn't anybody help him?

Don't be a hero. Most likely you wouldn't be anyway. You'd run as fast as you could just like the others.