Blue Jays have landed a new catcher

[Ranger68]

One thing for sure is that I think JP would have preferred to fill the catching position from something developed on the farm; but, there was nothing there.

Come to think of it in the 30 year history of the Jays, as far as I know, the farm system has never produced a star calibre catcher. The closest thing is Ernie Whit; but, he was never in the class of Johnny Bench or Gary Carter.

JP has put the highest priority on drafting and developing pitchers which I feel is an appropriate strategy for a small market team, - the results have just not been as stellar as most fans would like to see.

Yes, the Jays certainly have busted out with developing (or even just HAVING) good catchers.
An organizational fluke, I'd say.
For just that reason, I'm glad to have Zaun back.
As for the pitchers, there are lots of them, even if none of them are blue-chip prospects. There is lots of potential for useful 3-5 starters and bullpen arms. Those aren't useless.

 

[Ranger68]

The BoSox had a terrible August that ruined their year.

Who was missing in August?

Varitek, Wakefield, DiNardo, Nixon, Clement.
Gonzalez missed the second half (but they were 4-9 while he was in the lineup in August), Foulke missed the first half (but he was pitching like crap and was already out of the closer spot).

Clement missed practically the whole year, and never contributed, so they didn't miss him in August.
Did they miss Wakefield? I guess, to some degree, but he had a bad year.
DiNardo? Please.
Nixon? I guess they missed him as much as you can miss a .268 hitter with 8 dingers and no speed in a corner-outfield spot.
Varitek? Oh yeah, this is the pain. Especially considering his replacement, Mirabelli, strongly resembles a houseplant at the dish. (JP bashers should consider that when they rate the Jays farm system as terrible because they can't find a catcher. Depth behind the plate is coming around in the majors, but has been awfully thin for a long time.)

So, in August, as opposed to the rest of the year, they were missing a terrible corner outfielder (Nixon), a useful starter having a rough year (Wakefield), some spare bullpen arms (DiNardo, Foulke), and their starting catcher.

Not disastrous. And it doesn't explain the collapse of the pitchers - which was the REAL problem that month. Losing four games in the middle of August to the Yankees, and giving up *47* runs doing it - well, that's just not gonna cut it. The Sox' ERA that month was hideous, and killed their season.

 

[bigdik]

So, in August, as opposed to the rest of the year, they were missing a terrible corner outfielder (Nixon), a useful starter having a rough year (Wakefield), some spare bullpen arms (DiNardo, Foulke), and their starting catcher.

Not disastrous. And it doesn't explain the collapse of the pitchers - which was the REAL problem that month. Losing four games in the middle of August to the Yankees, and giving up *47* runs doing it - well, that's just not gonna cut it. The Sox' ERA that month was hideous, and killed their season.

Well, to a degree it can be used as an excuse. The only other time Varitek was out for a significant period - 2001, the Sox tanked. Though he's very important to their pitching staff, you can't blame the entire collapse on his absence. They'd have been better, but it was a total collapse. The Sox were in first using smoke & mirrors, they weren't that good last year and I don't think there was a single day during the season they had the 25 guys they would have liked. Even healthy they weren't good enough. Now the Yankees, there was a team with injuries.

 

[Ranger68]

I agree that they overachieved much of last year.
On the other hand, you could make an argument that the combined loss of Gonzalez and Varitek so weakened the battery and defense that the pitching self-destructed.
You *could*, but I don't think it would reflect reality.
I think the Sox' pitching was thin going into the year, and August was the one month it jumped up and bit them.

 

[jockeee]

holy shit. you do know everything.

 

[Perry Mason]

Yes....

But on the whole, the scene is obscene!

Imagine paying a man 5 to 25 MILLION dollars a year to play a game!

Do you know how many desperately needed social workers in deprived neighbourhoods, how many doctors and health care professionals, how many decent teachers, how many aid workers in the Third World, etc., etc. could be supported on Arod's salary alone?

How about 600 to 700!!

Perry

 

[benn]

Yes....

But on the whole, the scene is obscene!

Imagine paying a man 5 to 25 MILLION dollars a year to play a game!

Do you know how many desperately needed social workers in deprived neighbourhoods, how many doctors and health care professionals, how many decent teachers, how many aid workers in the Third World, etc., etc. could be supported on Arod's salary alone?

How about 600 to 700!!

Perry

Why are you comparing sports and entertainment to doctors, teachers and aid workers? If you have to have a political discussion about it start a thread in the Politics section

 

[benn]

One thing for sure is that I think JP would have preferred to fill the catching position from something developed on the farm; but, there was nothing there.

Come to think of it in the 30 year history of the Jays, as far as I know, the farm system has never produced a star calibre catcher. The closest thing is Ernie Whit; but, he was never in the class of Johnny Bench or Gary Carter.

QUOTE]

actually the jays did develop an all star catcher and infact he'll be a hall of famer one day, jays tried moving him to left but it didn't work out so they settled playing him on first base to prolong his career and avoid injuries. But his entire minor league career he played catcher except his last stint

 

[bigdik]

actually the jays did develop an all star catcher and infact he'll be a hall of famer one day, jays tried moving him to left but it didn't work out so they settled playing him on first base to prolong his career and avoid injuries. But his entire minor league career he played catcher except his last stint

Delgado wouldn't have been an all star as a catcher, and he has a long way to the HOF.

 

[Ranger68]

Delgado's a likely Hall of Famer. But, he wouldn't be going in as a catcher. Still, he certainly would have been the best fucking catcher they ever had!

Well, at the plate, at least .................................

 

[Perry Mason]

Well, Kennedy isn't coming here... he's a Cardinal now!

And the BJ farm system has not been that bad over the years... lots of former BJ's have gone on to good careers with other teams or are playing for other teams now... can't judge a farm system on one season or at a particular point in time without taking it all into account.

Besides, a surprisingly large percentage of "top prospects" bomb out while a lot of so-called journeymen go on to great careers... it's one of those things about baseball that makes it so interesting.

And there are a number of good prospects in the farm system now... just look at the Syracuse roster...

Perry

 

[Ranger68]

Yup.

 

[shack]

Well, Kennedy isn't coming here... he's a Cardinal now!

Is anybody aware of a Plan B? Is Lugo still available?

 

[Ranger68]

Lugo's still available, although the Red Sox are reportedly very close to signing him. If not, the Mets and Dodgers are right behind.
Loretta? Durham?

Gil Meche was being courted at the Leafs game tonight by JP. This makes sense as he's stated that pitching is his next priority. Middle infield may be a patch-job - not much of an FA crop this year.

 

[the_big_E]

why the hell would the Mets want Lugo when they have Reyes? Unless of course one of them moves to 2B

I'd like to see them take a shot at Mulder, he can probably be had at the right price...

 

[the_big_E]

man, Randy Wolf got 7.5 million from the Dodgers? Have the Dodgers made one good signing the past few seasons aside from say Nomar?

Bottom line if Wolf got that much, how much would Mulder get, who has more pedigree??

 

[benn]

man, Randy Wolf got 7.5 million from the Dodgers? Have the Dodgers made one good signing the past few seasons aside from say Nomar?

Bottom line if Wolf got that much, how much would Mulder get, who has more pedigree??

mulder will actually get less and he is probably just looking for a one year or 2 year deal while he recovers from a rotator cuff surgery and his agent is Rod Barajas agent as well so chances of jays landing him now are pretty slim

 

[SneakyLB]

i just have this feeling Lilly will resign with the Jays. They need a left arm in the rotation badly.

 

[teassoc]

They have shown a lot of ambition in recent signings and I wouldn't be surprised if they get Lilly and Meche (or Mulder). If they do they'll probably not have much left for someone like Lugo. My guess is that's plan A.

Plan B might be Lilly or Meche (or Mulder) plus Lugo (or equivalent).

Not sure where a new contract for Wells comes into it. That might depend on the above.

 

[Ranger68]

why the hell would the Mets want Lugo when they have Reyes? Unless of course one of them moves to 2B

Lugo has publicly stated that he'd be willing to play second (where the Mets would play him) or center (where the Cubs would play him) - if the money's right, he's there.