The Porn Dude

Blue Jays 2009

Are we better this year ?

  • yes

    Votes: 64 45.1%
  • no

    Votes: 49 34.5%
  • who cares the Yankees are going to win

    Votes: 15 10.6%
  • who cares the Red Sox are going to win

    Votes: 14 9.9%

  • Total voters
    142

spankingman

Well-known member
Dec 7, 2008
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I don't think they are a fluke this year.Since Cito took over they are a MUCH improved hitting team. First place so far in the AL East. The REAL test will come against the BRS the next couple of weeks.

They are FUN to watch and are getting bigger crowds again.Took my son until the 4 inning to get inside on Sunday. GO JAYS GO!!!!!!!!
 

Kilgore Trout

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Oct 18, 2008
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For the road trip coming up I thing they'll go something like 5W-4L.
1W-2L Boston
2W-1L Atlanta
2W-1L Baltimore

Right now the Jays are right where they want to be to position themselves for a run at a playoff position.
Re. Stats, here are sortable team stats for
AL Hitting: (Jays #1)
http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable_t...09&groupByTeam=true&Submit=Submit&timeFrame=1

AL Pitching: (Jays #2)
http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable_t...09&groupByTeam=true&Submit=Submit&timeFrame=1

Starting pitching depth is really good.
Right now the #6,#7,#8 guys in Janssen, Romero, and Castro are better than most teams #2,#3,#4 guys.
I get the feeling Brett Cecil is going to be really good for a lot of years in Toronto.

BTW, if Yanks win tonight then cumulatively the Central Div would have gone 0-8 against East Div. in the White Sox/Jays, Twins/Yankees series.
So it's like just to be competive in AL East you have to totally destroy the AL Central.
 
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salsamarc

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Jul 15, 2004
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Goomer said:
If there's two guys on this team that I'm not pleased with, it's Vernon Wells (the most overpriced cleanup hitter in the game) and Jesse Carlson! And the fact that Carlson gets the win after blowing the 8th, and Richmond gets nothing after pitching a gem of a game, is simply not fair! That totally blows for Scott Richmond!
don't be too hard on the man (I am sure he did not do it on purpose) and in case you guys have forgotten, consider this:

against the Texas Rangers at the Rogers Centre on April 16, 2008 Carlson came on in the 11th inning with the bases loaded and no one out. In an amazing and very rare feat, he struck out the side on 12 pitches, marking the first time since 1960 that a reliever came into a game in extra innings with the opponent's team loading the bases with no outs and striking out the side. Carlson also became the first and possibly the only pitcher in MLB history to achieve the feat on only his third game played.

At the end of the 2008 season, he held a 7–2 record, becoming the winningest reliever for the club since Paul Quantrill had 11 wins in the 2001 season.
 
Jan 19, 2004
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I know not getting the win for Richmond blows, in terms of stats.

Cito knows what's going on, don't worry about that. That's what counts. It looks like Richmond took a spoonful of "Hentgen 93" syrup.

Let it do its work.
 
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salsamarc

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Jul 15, 2004
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a few things worth mentioning that definately saved or perhaps won the game for the Jays today

1- Bautista stole third with one out, racing in without a throw as Dotel looked in for the sign while third baseman Josh Fields played well behind the bag.

2- 3B Scott Rolen made a diving stop and then threw from one knee to retire Fields in the third. Fields gave Rolen a tip of the cap as he headed back to the dugout. (great play by Rolen and Fields was certainly impressed by it specially with him being athird baseman)
 

Kilgore Trout

Active member
Oct 18, 2008
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Re Fenway Series:

Boston is a very dominating team at Fenway. 13 W - 4 L this year for .765; so, it's extremely difficult for any team to go into Fenway and not get their asses kicked six ways to China and back. Jays are doing okay if they go 1W-2L. It would take a minor miracle to take 2 of 3 at Fenway. Toronto just has to play it one out at a time and after 3 games see what happened.

I get the feeling Yanks are going to be in the post season this year; so, if the Red Sox make it in also they'll have done it by beating the crap out of Toronto this year. I've checked some Boston Red Sox message boards and most of their fans don't take Jays very seriously, - expecting Toronto to collapse and drop dead as season progresses. So, Toronto has advantage in being underestimated and lightly regarded.
In any case key for both teams making playoffs is how they do in head to head competition this year.

Jays this year on road are 11 -8 for .578 percentage. But, Jays don't tend to do as well in outdoor stadiums that have grass for some reason.
 
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teassoc

New member
Mar 29, 2005
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teassoc said:
Tallett had a good game as did Rios.

Jesse Carlson however is proving a bit of a liability. Two losses already this season is not good. I would expect him to be one of those sent down when others return.

Wells is also very disappointing. They are stuck with him though.
Jesse Carlson gets a BS and a totally undeserved Win in this afternoon's game. He's proving to be a bit like last year's Jason Frasor. Thankfully Frasor is now a much improved pitcher.
 

teassoc

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Mar 29, 2005
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Kilgore Trout said:
For the road trip coming up I thing they'll go something like 5W-4L.
1W-2L Boston
2W-1L Atlanta
2W-1L Baltimore
I'm going to go out on a limb here are suggest 6 - 3 for the Jays. That would be 2 - 1 in each series, or 1 - 2, 2 - 1 and 3 - 0. :)
 

Rockslinger

Banned
Apr 24, 2005
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salsamarc said:
2- 3B Scott Rolen made a diving stop and then threw from one knee to retire Fields in the third.
Scott Rolen is starting to make me forget Brooks Robinson but Brooks still made the best play I ever saw from a 3B man. The ball was a rocket groundball that crossed 3B and went deep into foul territory. Brooks backhanded the ball and spun and in mid-air threw a bullet to 1B to retire the batter.
 

Kilgore Trout

Active member
Oct 18, 2008
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Ken Rosenthal on Ricciardi drafting record:
Quote:
------
"When it comes to the draft, Blue Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi is perhaps best known for taking left-hander Ricky Romero over shortstop Troy Tulowitzki with the sixth overall selection in 2005.

No more.

The Jays, the season's biggest early surprise, boast a surplus of starting pitching due in large part to the organization's success in drafting and developing college pitchers such as Romero.

Rarely are the Jays hailed for their prowess in scouting and player development; Baseball America ranked their farm system 19th at the start of the season. But suddenly, the team is producing pitching in waves.

When the Jays promoted left-hander Brett Cecil and righty Robert Ray on May 1, Ricciardi acknowledged, "they're probably not ready to be here." Since then, Cecil and Ray have gone a combined 3-1 with a 2.70 ERA in six starts, delaying the returns of Romero and righty Casey Janssen from injuries.

Lefty David Purcey, a former No. 1 pick who was demoted after a poor April, is regrouping at Class AAA. Three homegrown righties — Shaun Marcum, Dustin McGowan and Jesse Litsch — could return from injuries after the All-Star break.

As Ricciardi says, "It might be a year where you have to ride the hot hands while they're hot."

Cecil and Ray will face perhaps their biggest tests this week when they pitch in Fenway Park in the Jays' first meeting of the season against the Red Sox. But considering that Cecil had an awful spring and Ray missed three weeks with an oblique strain, their contributions already must be considered a bonus.

The Jays led the American League in ERA last season despite losing Janssen, Marcum and McGowan to injuries. They currently rank second despite losing right-hander A.J. Burnett as a free agent.

Obviously, they're doing something right.

Seven of the nine starting pitchers used by the Jays this season were homegrown. Six of those were collegians. And the farm system also helped land lefty Brian Tallet, who arrived in a trade for a prospect.

Ace right-hander Roy Halladay, the Jays' first-round pick in 1995, preceded Ricciardi, who has been the team's GM since Nov. 2001. McGowan also was a product of the previous regime. But the others arrived under Ricciardi's watch.

Ricciardi deflects credit, citing the contributions of assistant GM Tony LaCava, farm director Dick Scott, scouting director Jon Lalonde and roving pitching instructor Dane Johnson, among others.

Still, the Jays clearly have benefited from their philosophy of drafting college pitchers rather than high-ceiling high school arms who take longer to develop — and there are other former collegians, such as lefties Brad Mills and Marc Rzepczynski, still to come.

Ricciardi recalls standing in the draft room in '05 and ending the internal debate between Romero and Tulowitzki, proclaiming that the team would take Romero. His reasoning: The Jays could not convince free-agent pitchers to come to Toronto. They would need to develop their own arms.

The team eventually signed Burnett and closer B.J. Ryan as free agents, but those were exceptions. The more common Jays stories are of pitchers such as Ray, a former seventh-round pick who had made one start for Class A Dunedin and one for Class AAA Las Vegas when Ricciardi contacted Scott, his farm director, in need of rotation help.

"Your call," Ricciardi recalls telling Scott.

"Give me 10 minutes," Scott replied.

Scott checked with his staff and called back with a unanimous recommendation for Ray.
"It was hard to believe this guy would be ready to pitch in the big leagues," Ricciardi says.
Well, here's Ray. Here are the Jays.

Somebody is doing something right."
-----


Boston Herald predicts 3 game sweep for Red Sox:
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1173270

Tony Masseroti of Boston Globe on Jays:
http://multimedia.boston.com/tn/16/red_sox.htm?bctid=23636632001
 
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blueline

Active member
Sep 21, 2001
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Lineups for tonight............

Just as most people figured, Ortiz back in the 3-hole. Great. :rolleyes:

Millar as DH, most likely because he has seen Wakefield quite a bit, especially while with the Orioles. Black hole at the bottom of the Sox order. Wakefield has one of his famous nuclear innings, Jays win easy.


Blue Jays
1. Marco Scutaro, SS
2. Aaron Hill, 2B
3. Alex Rios, RF
4. Vernon Wells, CF
5. Adam Lind, LF
6. Scott Rolen, 3B
7. Lyle Overbay, 1B
8. Kevin Millar, DH
9. Rod Barajas, C
-- Brian Tallet, LHP

Red Sox
1. Jacoby Ellsbury, CF
2. Dustin Pedroia, 2B
3. David Ortiz, DH
4. Jason Bay, LF
5. Mike Lowell, 3B
6. J.D. Drew, RF
7. Julio Lugo, SS
8. Jeff Bailey, 1B
9. George Kottaras, C
-- Tim Wakefield, RHP
 

teassoc

New member
Mar 29, 2005
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blueline said:
Just as most people figured, Ortiz back in the 3-hole. Great. :rolleyes:

Millar as DH, most likely because he has seen Wakefield quite a bit, especially while with the Orioles. Black hole at the bottom of the Sox order. Wakefield has one of his famous nuclear innings, Jays win easy.


Blue Jays
1. Marco Scutaro, SS
2. Aaron Hill, 2B
3. Alex Rios, RF
4. Vernon Wells, CF
5. Adam Lind, LF
6. Scott Rolen, 3B
7. Lyle Overbay, 1B
8. Kevin Millar, DH
9. Rod Barajas, C
-- Brian Tallet, LHP

Red Sox
1. Jacoby Ellsbury, CF
2. Dustin Pedroia, 2B
3. David Ortiz, DH
4. Jason Bay, LF
5. Mike Lowell, 3B
6. J.D. Drew, RF
7. Julio Lugo, SS
8. Jeff Bailey, 1B
9. George Kottaras, C
-- Tim Wakefield, RHP
You can be much more hopeful than that. Jays haven't done well against Wakefield in the past but this is a stronger side offensively so who knows.

Jays have better chances IMHO Wednesday and Thursday.
 

salsamarc

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Jul 15, 2004
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teassoc said:
Jays haven't done well against Wakefield in the past but this is a stronger side offensively so who knows.

Jays have better chances IMHO Wednesday and Thursday.

agreed there is nothing a hitter can do to prepare against Wakefield and as previously noted he has been tough against the Jays
 

Kilgore Trout

Active member
Oct 18, 2008
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Well, if the Blue Jays keep playing like this against the Red Sox/Yankees they are certified dead meat this year no matter what they do against the rest of MLB. Because the only way you can make the playoffs out of the East is if you can compete against those 2 teams.
Hitting in all 4 games so far against these teams has been pathetic and dismal. The Blue Jays just flat out can't hit against good pitchers.

I think they should send Snider back to the minors for 60 days or so, so he can work on his game because he's clearly overmatched against major league pitchers right now and I think he's losing his confidence. He has been hitting very poorly since he had 2 homers against Minnesota to win a game in Mid April or so and I think he's being rushed or hurried or pressured to make it at the MLB level faster than he is able to.
Mainly because the Jays desperately need a decent slugger from the outfield. Doesn't look like it's going to happen this year. His fielding is very good though.
 

salsamarc

Semi-Retired Shill Hunter
Jul 15, 2004
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wow Kilgore, dead meat you said after 1 series against the Yanks and one game against the Sox (ever heard the expression Pitcher's duel?) (I liked your post at the top of this page, I think that is more realistic)

fielding is very good though....... do you know where the Jays stand in the AL in:

Batting average ?
runs scored?
runs per game?
runs batted in with 2 outs?
home runs ?
runs batted in ?

the problem is not the batting, the "problem" is that they have faced the best the Yanks have (and Pettitte and CC where on their game) and tonight Wakefield was throwing the knuckleball the way he has always done against the Jays......there is no way all 3 of these pitchers are going to get the best of the Jays all season long, IF (big if here) Wells start batting (he has 4 hits in his past 34 at bats) Snider is a rookie so is to be expected for him to go through a slump but the idiot who was managing last season also thought it was a good idea to send Lind down to the minors because he was not ready..... well Lind is the BEST DH in the AL right now Cito is a great coach and Snider will learn a lot from him

I would not complain about the loss tonight since they are in first place without getting any offense from Wells and/or Rios to speak of.
 

Kilgore Trout

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Oct 18, 2008
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Hey Salsamarc, save the sanctimonious, judgemental drivel.
I'm in the reality business and I say what my eyes see. If my opinions are clueless and uninformed; then, I assert my fundamental fan rights to hold, clueless, meathead, uninformed opinions. La de dah. I've been wrong many times about all kinds of different things.

Anyway, I stand by what I said. If they can't hit against really good Yankee/Red Sox pitching they are dead meat because the road to the playoffs unfortunately runs through Boston/New York.
You act like excellent pitching is an aberation and a freak of nature, something seldom seen.
But, to me once the Yankees/Red Sox get their main guns on line it is a reality and a constant baseline challenge in front of them.

If people want to wear rose coloured glasses and pretend it doesn't exist, - that's their choice.
A Yankee rotation of Sabathia, Pettitte, Wang, Burnett, Chamberlain is like a machine gun that can annihilate everything in front of it. (Wang is due back in a week or two.)
Dice K is due back from injury this weekend and a rotation of Beckett, Dice K, and Wakefield has a history of being consistently excellent. Plus Boston collectively has the best relievers in the AL.
My position is Blue Jays have to have no illusions about what is in front of them.
 

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
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Kilgore Trout said:
Well, if the Blue Jays keep playing like this against the Red Sox/Yankees they are certified dead meat this year no matter what they do against the rest of MLB. Because the only way you can make the playoffs out of the East is if you can compete against those 2 teams.
Ok, so they lose a blow out when Richmond loses his nerve against the Yanks and 2 very close pitchers' duels against Wakefield and Sabathia. So what?!

What did you think? They were going to go 80-10 against the AL East and win 120 games this year??!!

They're doing fine so far. Competitive and far better than anyone thought possible. And yes, Snider should go to AAA.... and Overbay and Wells can go with him too.
 

huntingale

Member
Jan 21, 2004
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"Ship Is Sinking"

Kilgore Trout said:
Well, if the Blue Jays keep playing like this against the Red Sox/Yankees they are certified dead meat this year no matter what they do against the rest of MLB. Because the only way you can make the playoffs out of the East is if you can compete against those 2 teams.
Hitting in all 4 games so far against these teams has been pathetic and dismal. The Blue Jays just flat out can't hit against good pitchers.

I think they should send Snider back to the minors for 60 days or so, so he can work on his game because he's clearly overmatched against major league pitchers right now and I think he's losing his confidence. He has been hitting very poorly since he had 2 homers against Minnesota to win a game in Mid April or so and I think he's being rushed or hurried or pressured to make it at the MLB level faster than he is able to.
Mainly because the Jays desperately need a decent slugger from the outfield. Doesn't look like it's going to happen this year. His fielding is very good though.
Yes,i totally agree !
I watched tonight ball game via NESN,the commentator call Blue Jays was a pop up team.They had 25 pop outs in this game,what a shame !
Luckily they didn't get the shut out !
I wish the Jays could win 1 game in Boston,1 game in Atlanta,and 1 game in Baltimore for this road trip !
 

teassoc

New member
Mar 29, 2005
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oagre said:
Ok, so they lose a blow out when Richmond loses his nerve against the Yanks and 2 very close pitchers' duels against Wakefield and Sabathia. So what?!

What did you think? They were going to go 80-10 against the AL East and win 120 games this year??!!

They're doing fine so far. Competitive and far better than anyone thought possible. And yes, Snider should go to AAA.... and Overbay and Wells can go with him too.
Agreed. Also with salsamark.

The Jays have been slightly unlucky with that New York pitching line-up and I think Wakefield was always going to cause the Jays trouble. Losing 2 - 1 was quite respectable under the circumstances. Boston are really tough to beat at home.

If theJays get swept then that will be time to worry.
 

mandrill

monkey
Aug 23, 2001
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Official BJ press release: Snider possibly headed for AAA, to work on hitting.

What did I tell you, guys??!!
 
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