Affirmative Action

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Darts

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"The ruling is the latest bad news for Harvard related to the Supreme Court case, as the conservative majority appeared ready to strike down its admissions system, which critics argue discriminates against Asian students." Let's hope the Asian students win and then proceed to sue Harvard in civil court for damages.

The current system discriminates against Asian students.
The previous system discriminated against Blacks, Irish Catholics, Jews, etc.
Both systems are/were seriously flawed.

What we need is a new system that is race blind based strictly on merit.

Harvard loses $15 million lawsuit over affirmative action legal fees | The College Fix
 
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toguy5252

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Darts said:
Amazing! Affirmative Action students graduate at the top of their class. Was the fix in? Where are the stats?

I said this before and I'll say it again. Don't allow race to be a factor in who gets admitted to university.
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I am not sure what you do but I was a lawyer for many years and over that time hired many lawyers and other staff. The idea that you simply look at a transcript and hire the person with best marks is silly. In the course if interview candidates you look at many factors and marks are just one. Most employers look at what is sometimes called "fit". This often results in people choosing people who are more like them. Race/religion/gender/sexual orientation etc. It is much much better now and the discrimination may be more subtle but it is there.

So talks about ending AA are really based upon creating and fostering lies and misconceptions.
 
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Darts

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toguy5252 said:
I am not sure what you do but I was a lawyer for many years and over that time hired many lawyers and other staff. The idea that you simply look at a transcript and hire the person with best marks is silly. In the course if interview candidates you look at many factors and marks are just one.
Depends on the job. Marks are very important in STEM and medical jobs. Marks are less important or not important in bullshit jobs like politics, union boss, flogging real estate and to some degree defense lawyers.

Most employers look at what is sometimes called "fit". This often results in people choosing people who are more like them. Race/religion/gender/sexual orientation etc. It is much much better now and the discrimination may be more subtle but it is there.
Yes, I've seen enough businesses where "fit" actually means "you are one of us" or "you are not one of us". This happens much more in small and medium size businesses where management and maybe also the staff is dominated by one ethnic/racial group.

So talks about ending AA are really based upon creating and fostering lies and misconceptions.
The rationale behind AA is preferential treatment for a particular group or groups.
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toguy5252

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There may be a moral or equity argument about AA but the argument almost always devolves into "would you want an AA doctor operating on you."

The fact is that what you argue against preferential treatment is exactly what has Ben the norm for 100 years and AA is intended to redress that.
 
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Darts

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toguy5252 said:
There may be a moral or equity argument about AA but the argument almost always devolves into "would you want an AA doctor operating on you."
The doctor is only one example. Do you want an AA engineer/architect to design your house or an AA defense lawyer to defend you from a rape accusation.

The fact is that what you argue against preferential treatment is exactly what has Ben the norm for 100 years and AA is intended to redress that.
What happened in the past was wrong. It was wrong! Many groups (including Jews) faced discrimination. What is happening now with AA is also wrong. Two wrongs don't fix anything.

What we need now is a race blind university admission policy.
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toguy5252

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Your talking in circles. And the point us that in the absence of AA the process is not now nor has it never been race neutral. That is a myth promoted by anti AA people which is based on a fiction.

And yes I would have no problem with anyone who graduated from a good school a an engineer etc. No problem whatsoever.
 
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Darts

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toguy5252 said:
And the point us that in the absence of AA the process is not now nor has it ever been race neutral. That is a myth promoted by anti AA people which is based on a fiction.
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AA is not race neutral either. It's intent is to favour one or two ethnic/racial groups over all others.
 
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Darts

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Time to summarize.

Discrimination is wrong. It was wrong in the past and it is wrong now (AA).
 
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basketcase

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Darts said:
Of course it's possible. But, where is the data?
...
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Funny that after making all your claims about affirmative action doctors being incompetent, you now want data.

And not sure what high school data in Canada has to do with Universities using affirmative action in the US.
 
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niniveh

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Frankfooter said:
Brought to you by the people banning abortion.
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The NeoCon majority on the USSC (or is it now trumpcon?) will find a myriad precedents and constitutional challenges to tie up Harvard and U of NC in legal knots.

Of course the law ought to be colour blind.
But closing your eyes and holding your breath won't make the systemic racism that permeates our societies simply go away.
There is no simple answer to this challenge unless and until we purge our minds of prejudice and delusions of superiority.
 
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Darts

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"University admissions policies have most directly harmed Asian American students. They have been subjected to the most penalizing practices despite outperforming White applicants on nearly every metric of academic achievement, including grades and SAT scores.

At Harvard, such discrimination takes the form of an amorphous "personal rating" that denigrates Asian students. They are assigned the lowest such rating among all races in a process that casts judgment – typically from reviewers who have never met the applicants – in such categories as "leadership," "self-confidence," "likeability" and "kindness." This practice is eerily reminiscent of the abhorrent method by which the university excluded Jewish applicants a century ago."
Harvard affirmative action case: Supreme Court must defend color-blind Constitution | Fox News
 
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toguy5252

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Darts said:
"University admissions policies have most directly harmed Asian American students. They have been subjected to the most penalizing practices despite outperforming White applicants on nearly every metric of academic achievement, including grades and SAT scores.

At Harvard, such discrimination takes the form of an amorphous "personal rating" that denigrates Asian students. They are assigned the lowest such rating among all races in a process that casts judgment – typically from reviewers who have never met the applicants – in such categories as "leadership," "self-confidence," "likeability" and "kindness." This practice is eerily reminiscent of the abhorrent method by which the university excluded Jewish applicants a century ago."
Harvard affirmative action case: Supreme Court must defend color-blind Constitution | Fox News
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You are not really making an argument agents AA but rather than criteria should be adjusted from time to time. There was a bias against Jewish students at one time and then in what might be seen as a predecessor of AA (at least in Canada) changed and Jewish admissions skyrocketed. I was the beneficiary of the change. It served it purposes and now universities and professions have lots of Jews and therefore young Jews can apply to schools with confidence. That is not the case now for blacks and it has never been.
 
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