QUOTE]Originally posted by Ranger68
Your implication (outright statement?) that everyone who voted for Bush - that's 51% of the population of the United States - is irrational is quite amusing.
And illustrates why Bush won - because the Democrats have lost touch with the majority of the population - and then like to blame it on idiocy and radicalism. The latter is ironic. [/QUOTE]
Ranger,
I am a Political Science graduate as well an observer of the Amercian political scene for over 30 years. My observations are not quite as simple as you make them out to be, as I realize the inherent compexities involved in any electoral system. I do not view 51 percent of the electorate as idiots or irrational people, many of them are my close friends, relatives and neighbors.
What I do point out is the predominance of simplistic arguments in politics nowadays. 20 years ago, I could have a good political discussion, and hear people on all sides of the spectrum presenting good arguments. I could debate into the wee hours of the morning with friends on a variety of issues, and feel satisfied that we had an intelligent discussion.
However, times have changed. The honest argument has been replaced by statements that are demonstratably false (i.e. saying Kerry has said he wants to ban hunting) and statements about the candidates (Bush is religious, etc.) that do not address the candidates' positions on the issues.
What used to be mere distortion has become outright lie on the part of politicans, and Bush is the best example. For example, Bush opposed the creation of the 9/11 commission, saying it wasn't in the interest of national security to dig into such sensitive matters in a time of war. When it became too embarassing for him to continue the opposition, he reversed himself, and supported it. A few months afterward, he DENIED ever having opposed the creation of the commission. The lie was repeated so many times by Bush and his media cronies, most notably in Fox news, that people eventually believed the lie.
When I was a kid, my elders would vote the way they did because of what a political party had done 40 years before that! But now, people don't even remember what a candidate or party did 6 months ago. It's a sad state of affairs.
You may be right, Ranger, perhaps the Dems have lost touch with the majority, and yes, I do blame it on radicalism to a degree. As far as the American people being idiots, that's not what I said, but again I will point out that there is a reliance on simple, irrelevant arguments.
You never addressed my main question, regarding the 10 examples I gave. What do you think about those examples, are they intelligent arguments to you? And if you don't think they are, how is it possible to have a discussion when people rely on cliches and slogans so much? If you asked me why I think you should vote for Kerry, and I said because he is a good man, would you think that I really answered your question? How come the Republicans get a free pass in this area? Still looking for answers................
