2016 Camaro

[driv3r]

Just changed the driver side window regulator on my Infiniti coupe. the dealer wanted 750 and change. The oem motor on Ebay cost me $65 and two hours work. Which I luv doing !!

Right on! Nice work, dealer electrical diagnosis are ridiculous

Problem with these electronics while they seldomly fail, when they do, diagnosing is a pain-see VW, but that's for another day. With electric cars coming to the scene it looks like techs will be replaced by hackers to unlock their potential

 

[Hornylover]

Like it or not, don't turn this into a bash GM thread. The Mustang was redesigned for this year, now it's the Camaro turn. Of the big three muscle, I would go with the Dodge Hellcat, not for the looks, but sheer power.

The Hellcat will kill everything. Can't even order one because they can't make them fast enough..... Sheer power with a full size trunk.

 

[Promo]

In the 1971 Hemi Challenger vs 2014 Hellcat drag, the hemi Challenger only ran 13.86 seconds at 104 mph. The Hellcat fucking SMOKED him by THREE seconds at 10.86 @ 126 mph.

10.86!!! Off the Dealership lot. You gotta admit that takes muscle!

LOLOL, of course the 707HP car will out-accelerate a 425HP car all else being equal (weight, tires, gears, exhaust)! You are comparing apples-to-oranges and you should know better as a "hardcore gear head".

A more realistic comparison would be the 1971 HEMI Challenger to a 2015 Challenger R/T (375HP). In 71, HP rating were gross, today's net is ~15-20% lower. Therefore the 71 HEMI, which was under-rated at 425HP, but was closer to 475HP is the equivalent of today's 380HP. Google Car and Driver, you will note that the 2015 R/T runs the same quarter mile as the 1971 HEMI Challenger. Which makes absolute sense.

The Hellcat is a factory tuner car. It is supercharged, factory headers, full dual exhaust, has massive high quality rear tires, steep rear gear set and 8 forward gears to optimize operational RPM. The 71 Challenger ran on puny bias-ply tires, 4:11s gears or less, a 4 speed transmission, a restrictive exhaust, a "modest" street cam. If you want to compare apples-to-apples, perform the mods that every weekend quarter mile racer would including slicks, headers, hotter cam, mild head, intake and carb work. These mods would push the car into the 575-650HP range and it would run high 10-11s on high-octane leaded pump gas. If you bored and stroked, fully machined the heads and intake, set-up the chassis for traction, bumped-up compression and run appropriate fuel; sub 10s were the norm .

Just replacing the shitty factory tires with slicks and adding a few traction aids and headers would push the car into the mid/upper-12s.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/videos/a7095/mopar-drag-race-better-than-coffee/

 

[Titalian]

LOLOL, of course the 707HP car will out-accelerate a 425HP car all else being equal (weight, tires, gears, exhaust)! You are comparing apples-to-oranges and you should know better as a "hardcore gear head".

A more realistic comparison would be the 1971 HEMI Challenger to a 2015 Challenger R/T (375HP). In 71, HP rating were gross, today's net is ~15-20% lower. Therefore the 71 HEMI, which was under-rated at 425HP, but was closer to 475HP is the equivalent of today's 380HP. Google Car and Driver, you will note that the 2015 R/T runs the same quarter mile as the 1971 HEMI Challenger. Which makes absolute sense.

The Hellcat is a factory tuner car. It is supercharged, factory headers, full dual exhaust, has massive high quality rear tires, steep rear gear set and 8 forward gears to optimize operational RPM. The 71 Challenger ran on puny bias-ply tires, 4:11s gears or less, a 4 speed transmission, a restrictive exhaust, a "modest" street cam. If you want to compare apples-to-apples, perform the mods that every weekend quarter mile racer would including slicks, headers, hotter cam, mild head, intake and carb work. These mods would push the car into the 575-650HP range and it would run high 10-11s on high-octane leaded pump gas. If you bored and stroked, fully machined the heads and intake, set-up the chassis for traction, bumped-up compression and run appropriate fuel; sub 10s were the norm .

Just replacing the shitty factory tires with slicks and adding a few traction aids would push the car into the mid/upper-12s.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/videos/a7095/mopar-drag-race-better-than-coffee/

Good post and and spot on.

 

[Promo]

Except for the nostalgia factor they do not compare to the performance of current muscle cars.

I can't argue that. They accelerate faster, brake and handle better, start every time you crank them, are virtually immune to temperature and altitude and are shocking reliable and low maintenance for 100,000kM or more. Plus they are significantly safer and offer allot of creature comforts.

I'd still rather have a early 70s HEMI Challenger or Cuda. Charger or GTX would be a close second.

I think the modern Mustang is a beautiful car, but I'm not a Ford guy and my buds would beat on me. The Hellcat is one super-amazing car, but I find it looks heavy and thick. The 2015 Camaro Z/28 has won all the independent comparison reports between the 3. I provided links in a previous thread. The Camaro styling just doesn't do it for me.

 

[Promo]

Nostalgia is a powerful influence on our thinking.

Funny you mention a 63 Split Window Coupe. I had one about 20years ago. It seems cool to have one but it really was not a nice car to drive. Same with all of the five 1963-1970 muscle cars I owned. The only one I really liked to drive around in was a 1970 440 'Cuda convertible.

I had a 66 327 Vette and a 67 427 Vette. They both handled poorly, braked poorly and were very rough riding. However, the sound from the factory off-road exhaust ....... OMG. The 427 could snap your neck. I loved the styling.

The best part about old muscle cars is the way it brought gear-heads together. Because people actually worked on them, it was a great way of bringing friends together to shoot the shit and turn wrenches. There is still dozens of weekly muscle-car get togethers in southern Ontario: https://www.lant-ins.ca/cruise-nights-events/cruise-nights/ and http://classiccarcruisenights.com/ You can't really work on modern muscle cars the same way and I find owners are more competitive and stand-offish. They seem less willing to suggest tips and tricks and where to get a deal on a part.

I don't like the styling of current Corvettes anyways. But I can't argue with the fact they outperform almost every sub-$300k car on the road today... excluding a Tesla!

A 2016 Z06 can lay the Tesla (and Hellcat) to waste in every performance measure including 0-60 and quarter mile. The base Stingray is on-par with the Tesla and costs less. ZR1 comes out in 2017. I agree, the styling is not really my thing either.

 

[Promo]

Just changed the driver side window regulator on my Infiniti coupe. the dealer wanted 750 and change. The oem motor on Ebay cost me $65 and two hours work. Which I luv doing !!

I applaud your efforts! Working on a modern car doors is such a hassle. The space is thin, I always cut my knuckles to hell and no matter how careful I am, I break several of the door panel plastic connectors.

Still ....... easier than trying to find the engine which is usually well hidden under a bunch of plastic and hiring harnesses.

 

[TeasePlease]

A 2016 Z06 can lay the Tesla ... to waste in every performance measure including 0-60...

I had to look it up 2.95 seconds vs. 3.2 seconds. Damn.

 

[ZenSouljah]

While old muscle cars looked pretty sweet and had loads of hp, they could really only go in a straight line. I still wouldn't buy any of the new redo's from any of the companies, my gti run's the 1/4 just a tad over a second slower then the Hellcat and would beat it around a track.

 

[onthebottom]

I had to look it up 2.95 seconds vs. 3.2 seconds. Damn.

Where the C7 vettes really shine is when you turn and brake... Did a 3 day performance driving course last week at Spring Mountain - was amazed at what the car could do in the corners. Z06 is a beast on the straights....

 

[TeasePlease]

While old muscle cars looked pretty sweet and had loads of hp, they could really only go in a straight line. I still wouldn't buy any of the new redo's from any of the companies, my gti run's the 1/4 just a tad over a second slower then the Hellcat and would beat it around a track.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. Modern Detroit metal drive pretty well. But, I would say from my own subjective experience that they are still missing the finesse or soul of other exotics. Or maybe I'm just a brand whore. lol.

 

[Promo]

Okay, I'm going to have some fun, please don't take it personal.

I still wouldn't buy any of the new redo's from any of the companies, my gti run's the 1/4 just a tad over a second slower then the Hellcat and would beat it around a track.

As in Volkswagen? Here we go ...... the kids with grocery getters are starting to chime in.

I can't begin to remember the number of civics, WRXs and GTIs that set-up beside me and tried to look like big boys with their neon flashing lights, plastic seats and rear wings. One or two did beat me, but those cars were 100% set-up for the track and all were pushed onto a trailer at the end of the racing day. My 440 drove off the track and onto the street and would idle all day in bumper-to-bumper (okay, that part I'm bulllshitting about).

The Hellcat is mainly set-up for acceleration, so it's a foolish comparison. Why don't you try your disco car against a Z51, Z06 or 2015 Z/28. I'm sure the owners would be willing to give you a head start, but you are definitely gonna want your mommy when the race is done. Leave your girlfriend at home, or she'll be leaving with the other guy.

While old muscle cars looked pretty sweet and had loads of hp, they could really only go in a straight line.

If I had a dime for every "expert" that said that. In my experience, most drivers have almost no real skill at getting a car around a turn. I've taken a few track courses and it's amazing how much everyone improves in the first few hours with the instructor. The bottom line is 90% of street drivers have no idea how to drive a car fast. 90% of GTA's streets are straight. 90% of impromptu street races are between traffic lights. Not smart to race on a windy GTA street.

 

[ZenSouljah]

Promo, my car is a daily driver...clean, no wings etc, not even tinted windows or loud exhaust. Only mods aside from the engine are lowering, boser hood with angel eye headlights. Pushing almost 40 I am no kid and find it quite funny when the young guys in their riced out rides (which look terrible) try to go. I don't street race anymore, not worth the risk, I only go to the track. It is true what you say though about most drivers not having a clue about how to drive properly

 

[SchlongConery]

LOLOL, of course the 707HP car will out-accelerate a 425HP car all else being equal (weight, tires, gears, exhaust)! You are comparing apples-to-oranges and you should know better as a "hardcore gear head".

A more realistic comparison would be the 1971 HEMI Challenger to a 2015 Challenger R/T (375HP).

You can slice the baloney however you like but the fact remains that the Hemi 'Cuda/Challenger was the hottest (Mopar) muscle car you could drive off a dealer's lot. Goodyear redlines and all!

The Hellcat is the hottest car you can drive off the Mopar dealer's lot today.

I am WELL aware of all the mods you could do to the E body cars and the 383, 440 and 426 Hemi engines. I did them.

But I am simply disputing that "today's cars don't compare to the cars of <insert my generation>"

Not to say that the muscle cars of the 60's weren't cool cars etc but today's cars are significantly improved and more well rounded performance -wise which is a natural, normal progression of improving technology.

 

[Promo]

Where the C7 vettes really shine is when you turn and brake... Did a 3 day performance driving course last week at Spring Mountain - was amazed at what the car could do in the corners. Z06 is a beast on the straights....

Especially with the Z51 suspension. I was surprised to learn how few C7 owners ordered the Z51 option with it's superior suspension, brakes, limited slip diff and improved cooling. Weekend warriors I guess, but sure their plastic was immaculately waxed though.

 

[ZenSouljah]

P.S. I have raced all the above cars you mentioned minus the hell cat and beat them all at the track, both 1/4 mile and on a road course. When you have over 400hp at the wheels in a 2 door gti it goes along way Also puts a huge dent in the wallet to build it and keep it in perfect running condition, but it's a labour of love.

 

[Promo]

Hey, I'm just trying to keep you honest. Nostalgia often results in exaggeration. I'm guilty too when I'm with my buds. I think I once claimed my 440 broke 10. (I lied) ;-)

You can slice the baloney however you like but the fact remains that the Hemi 'Cuda/Challenger was the hottest (Mopar) muscle car you could drive off a dealer's lot. Goodyear redlines and all!

Actually ..... they weren't. The GTX was faster as well as the 68 Barracuda. The factory also delivered quite a few race-ready HEMIs with one of the fastest being a HEMI Dart. The Dart was conservatively rated at 535HP and would run 9s/low 10s which made it the fastest ever factory sort-of production street car. There was also a slew of factory tuner cars with several aftermarket manufacturers (as in the Hurst Dart) and select dealerships (who were supposed to sell to race teams only, but many cars made it to the street).

To this day, a HEMI still powers every single Funny Car and Top Fuel engine regardless of the body being badged by other manufacturers.

But I am simply disputing that "today's cars don't compare to the cars of <insert my generation>"
Not to say that the muscle cars of the 60's weren't cool cars etc but today's cars are significantly improved and more well rounded performance -wise which is a natural, normal progression of improving technology.

We agree on this point. I'd still rather have the 70s Cuda or Challenger.

 

[onthebottom]

Especially with the Z51 suspension. I was surprised to learn how few C7 owners ordered the Z51 option with it's superior suspension, brakes, limited slip diff and improved cooling. Weekend warriors I guess, but sure their plastic was immaculately waxed though.

And it is such a cheap option, I did that and the Mag Shocks - makes a huge difference in ride between modes..... Probably same guys why bought an automatic (ugh)

 

[ZenSouljah]

Didn't auto Vettes make up about 80% of sales at some point? Thought I heard that somewhere....what a waste.

 

[Promo]

P.S. I have raced all the above cars you mentioned minus the hell cat and beat them all at the track, both 1/4 mile and on a road course. When you have over 400hp at the wheels in a 2 door gti it goes along way Also puts a huge dent in the wallet to build it and keep it in perfect running condition, but it's a labour of love.

As I mentioned above, I'm just having fun with you!! Please feel free to shoot it back at me. Do you own a Ford by any chance??

You gotta admit 400HP out of a factory block GTI and claiming it's a day-to-day driver is going to result in allot of suspicion. I have friends who turbocharged GTIs, did chip swaps, intercooled, had expensively machined aftermarket heads and the best achieved a dyno verified 375HP. All of them had continuous problems with the engine, drivetrain and heat. None could be reliability driven on the street in Toronto's hot summers or cold winters. All required octane boost which is expensive and getting hard to find. The GTI drivetrain and suspension was never designed to support that much power.

In general not too many high horsepower front-wheel drive cars doing that well at Cayuga or Mosport course that I've seen. I know there are classes for these cars, but you don't typically see them running with the big boys.

Not sure I can believe a 400HP front wheel drive shorter wheelbase chassis could take on a stock 650HP Z06 or 505HP Z/28, especially if those cars are race prepped for the track.

Anyway, I do believe what you say is possible. Must be a hell of a ride.