Trump/Zelensky deal turns into Jerry Springer episode

[WyattEarp]

Well, as I mentioned, he took a slap at Trumputin and Putin and went on to cover many aspects of the war. What didn't you understand? You stated he was articulate, yet you struggled to understand what he was stating?

Now, I am here to help you Wyatt.

listen to the 10 sec to the 50 sec mark. He goes through the numbers and states Europe will have to do more now since they've lost a reliable friend to the axis of evil. Yes, this is me taking out the man's diplomacy and stating what he wishes he could clearly say. Also note, he is stating Europe will need skin in the game.

Let me ask you, what did you get out of Vance and Trumputin's tirade on Zelenskyy? Do you think that looked good for your cult leader on the world stage, besides Russia, China and N. Korea and a few other evil states?

My point was that any Euro leader can say what he said, but there was no hard action or decision. I am sorry I didn't get a lot from the clip other than an articulate lecture. It would have far more weight coming from the Germans or the French followed up with more "skin in the game".

Anyway, I thought Zelensky was out of line. Vance should have just shut up.
I didn't like the use of word diplomacy in that context, but it didn't need to be debated in the media.

The problem with your haranguing about our "cult leader" and the Ukrainian war is that half our country wants a quick end without trying to win back territory. Democracy means tolerating and coming to terms with sentiment that we might disagree with. We all have to live in societies with a myriad of opinions.

As one might have expected, there was much more American public support in 2022-2023. It's likely this support will continue to decline if the war continues without a Ukrainian breakthrough. I believe Canadians are also now divided on the matter.

 

[Frankfooter]

And one of the conditions was that Ukraine would give up nukes and Russia wouldn't attack.
Looks like only one party kept their promises and that party isn't Russia.

Its either build the bomb or join NATO for Ukraine at this point.

The war really is a war of drones now.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1895878440802533703

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Ukraine had been slowly warming up to becoming a part of NATO since 1990s and 2000s. This is part of the reason why Putin invaded Ukraine. There's absolutely no way Russia is going to allow Ukraine to become part of NATO

Read: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine–NATO_relations#:~:text=Ukraine applied for NATO membership,had annexed the country's southeast.&text=Polls held before 2014 found low support among Ukrainians for NATO membership.

Well if it is not NATO it could be a different military arrangement.
Something that guarantees that Russia will face military consequences that they are guaranteed to lose.
And can you blame Ukraine after Putin occupied Crimea in 2014?
Putin invaded Ukraine for many reasons.
The chief one being that he does not see Ukraine as an independent sovereign nation, but as a part of Russia.
He sees Belarus the same way.
But Belarus is a vassal state and Ukraine was too until they moved away from that after Maidan.
This is why Putin attacked despite what he may say.
He does not see Ukraine as a separate country, so how dare they pursue an independent foreign policy.
The free and civilized nations of the world should therefore stand with Ukraine and not with Russia.
But civilized behaviour and Trump do not belong in the same sentence. So here we are.

 

[Frankfooter]

I think it is excellent news. Putin has since 2015 repeatedly requested an integrated security pact between USA, Europe and Russia.
It appears that finally, after 1,000,000 totally unnecessary deaths, at least USA is prepared to talk to Russia.about that.
Europe does not on its own present a threat to anybody, so they are pretty much irrelevant. They want USA to fight WWIII for them.

Wait, Europe isn't a threat but you think NATO is a threat?
Is that with or without the US as a member/partner?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

I wonder if this brings a tear to both Trumputin and Vance's eyes this morning. They should be very proud of themselves and all their supporters should be cheering for their cult leader's success.

Trump will be very proud.
He loves despots and dictators and receiving approval from them.

 

[Robert Mugabe]

There's this......

 

[TauCeti]

He loves despots and dictators and receiving approval from them.

Amazing how everyone on Terb knows absolutely everything personal about everybody in the world. Truly amazing.

 

[Frankfooter]

Amazing how everyone on Terb knows absolutely everything personal about everybody in the world. Truly amazing.

Its amazing that MAGA really didn't notice trump preferring Putin, Kim Jong Un, Bolsonaro and other despots in his first term.
Ukraine gets nothing while Israel just got another $3 billion for their genocide.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Amazing how everyone on Terb knows absolutely everything personal about everybody in the world. Truly amazing.

He has expressed his admiration for Putin, Kim Jong Un etc.,
Called them strong leaders, smart etc.,

 

[Valcazar]

I am not in principal as I believe they are meaningless. But the more security guarantees given by NATO nations only means continuation of the war. IMHO Russia has no desire to stop until Ukraine has no Black Sea coast. If you have any sense of history you would also understand why Odessa belongs with Russia. Maybe also Kiev. Ukraine is really Livov minus the Polish and Hungarian lands. That's the REAL Ukraine.(BTW I have have a few drinks at this point so I may disagree with myself tomorrow)

Got it.
You're just making up shit to side with Russia and have no actual opposition to the concept of security guarantees.
Fair enough.
Carry on.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

If you have any sense of history you would also understand why Odessa belongs with Russia. Maybe also Kiev. Ukraine is really Livov minus the Polish and Hungarian lands. That's the REAL Ukraine.(BTW I have have a few drinks at this point so I may disagree with myself tomorrow)

That is a load of made up bullshit history straight from Putin's personal journals lol.
From ChatGPT:
That statement is historically inaccurate and highly politically charged. Here’s why:

1. Odessa’s History – While Odessa was founded by the Russian Empire in 1794 and has a significant Russian-speaking population, it has been part of Ukraine since 1991. Historically, the region was inhabited by various peoples, including Tatars, Moldovans, and Ukrainians, before Russian colonization. Saying it "belongs with Russia" ignores Ukraine’s sovereignty and the historical complexities of national identity.
2. Kyiv (Kiev) and Ukrainian Identity – Kyiv is one of the most historically significant cities in Slavic history. It was the center of Kyivan Rus', the medieval state from which Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia trace their origins. The idea that Kyiv "belongs with Russia" dismisses Ukraine’s long history as a distinct nation.
3. Ukraine’s Borders and Identity – The claim that "Ukraine is really Lviv minus Polish and Hungarian lands" is misleading. Ukraine’s modern borders were shaped over centuries, including periods under the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and the Russian Empire. However, Ukrainian identity and language developed independently, and Ukraine today consists of much more than just Lviv.

This statement reflects an imperial Russian perspective that disregards Ukrainian self-determination. While historical ties exist between Ukraine and Russia, Ukraine is an independent nation with its own history, language, and political identity.

 

[Valcazar]

A key part of the Trump-Zelensky many overlooked: Ukrainian bio labs have been sabotaged.

Oh wow.
Are there still people pushing the "biolabs" thing?

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Well if it is not NATO it could be a different military arrangement.
Something that guarantees that Russia will face military consequences that they are guaranteed to lose.
And can you blame Ukraine after Putin occupied Crimea in 2014?
Putin invaded Ukraine for many reasons.
The chief one being that he does not see Ukraine as an independent sovereign nation, but as a part of Russia.
He sees Belarus the same way

He also sees it as NATO becoming too close to his borders.
Look at all the former USSR countries who are now part of NATO
(Lithuania, Poland, Latvia, Estonia and now almost Belarus and Ukraine)

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Look at all the former USSR countries who are now part of NATO

Now, do you wonder why?
I used to play an online game and one of my team mates was from Estonia.
They absolutely HATED the Russians.
I presume this is the case with every former USSR state. It is very telling.

 

[oil&gas]

...............................
The free and civilized nations of the world should therefore stand with Ukraine and not with Russia.

Thanks to the support of a fraction of the free and civilized nations
of the world through free money and weapons donation it is doubtful if
Ukraine as it was before the war will still exist in a few years.

But civilized behaviour and Trump do not belong in the same sentence. So here we are.

Trump is a mega jerk and has many many flaws. But so be it if
it takes a jerk to end the war.

 

[SchlongConery]

View attachment 413208

And to realize we have so many of the 4% here!

Makes me feel dirtier than staying with an escortalligator bait and switch old chinese mamasan offering BB if I stay!

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Now, do you wonder why?

If Canada, Mexico, and all the Caribbean islands joined a Russian military alliance, do you think the US would allow it and do nothing??

 

[Valcazar]

Well if it is not NATO it could be a different military arrangement.

There are lots of counterfactuals you can pursue for how a different security alignment could have happened post 1991.

And the same now.
Some kind of defensive alliance against Russia is still going to exist, no matter what the US does to NATO.

 

[mellowjello]

There's this......

All of this has been public record except for maybe the phone call.
People don't give a shit, they love the narrative that Putin is doing this for empire.
In the face of U.S./Ukraine turning down a deal for neutrality.

 

[SchlongConery]

There are mature human beings on Terb that believe this is a real photo? Oh my Lord please help us!

I feel the same about someone being so clueless and superior that they anyone would think that pic is anything but an AI generated fake for purposes of political satire… Thanks for your contribution Captain Obvious!