Trump/Zelensky deal turns into Jerry Springer episode
- Thread starter nottyboi
- Start date
It was a general comment about a lot of the rhetoric on here and on social media the last 24 hours. It wasn't pointed at you.
We all have friends who have no recollection that Russia was in Crimea and the Donbas in 2014.
A point I myself have made to little avail was that I said in early 2023 a settlement that many would find unsatisfactory would be the likely outcome to the war. I also said the Biden Administration should end the conflict. I was actually threatened on another sex site for saying this in 2023. (I believe the site moderators booted him for this and other trangressions.)
If one still thinks the Ukraine can drive the Russians out and/or get NATO guarantees, that's a valid opinion. In this case, no one should presume this was a guaranteed outcome under any U.S. leadership.
Thousands of tweets pouring in saying President Trump is too tough on Zelenskyy and why is he harder on Zelenskyy than Putin. Cry cry cry wah wah wah. I do not know why it is so hard for some of y’all to get this very simple concept so let me spell it out. The USA IS NOT FUNDING PUTIN’S WAR. We ARE bankrolling Zelenskyy. So yeah, Trump is gonna be tougher on the one that is TAKING OUR MONEY AND WEAPONS and DEMANDING it in perpetuity. If not for the generous US taxpayer, Putin would be tap dancing over the entire friggin country. So yeah, Zelenskyy is in NO position to be making demands and acting like an ungrateful jackass as he comes here to DEMAND more from you and I.
That's exactly my point I've been expressing. You can't shake hands with snakes. What good is a "peace deal" or "ceasefire" with a guy who has a history of attacking you?
Trump says he doesn't want to send anymore money or assist in the war. So you tell me?
These bush-league negotiation tactics don't work or hold any weight on this level.
Not guaranteed at all. Trump is doing exactly what America voted for
Yesterday, Susan Rice said of the Trump-Zelensky meeting, "There is no question this was a set up." She revealed full knowledge of the mineral agreement, complained that it didn't include "concrete" security agrees (meaning, apparently, commitment of US troops on the ground if conditions merit), and then mischaracterized Trump's behavior, counting on most Americans to not have watched what transpired over the entire hour in the Oval Office. You can look at this and dismiss it as typical Democrat talking points, but you could also view it as almost a confession, one that includes details about the current "Get Trump" effort. Yes, Trump won the popular vote against unbelievable odds, but if you think Team Obama is being any less involved in quiet insurrections than they were during the first Trump administration (Russia collusion, Ukraine impeachment, etc.), you're clueless. I'll remind you that Susan Rice was in the small Jan. 5, 2017 meeting in the WH with other key Russia collusion hoax perpetrators. Zelensky repeatedly declined opportunities to sign the deal in Kyiv and Munich, and requested the meeting at the White House. It later came out that Rice and Tony Blinken, Victoria Nuland, and Alexander Vindman may have been personally advising Zelensky to do this meeting in the way he did -- that they recommended him to be hostile and to try to goad Trump into blowing up. Even though he didn't, and even though Zelensky's actions horrified many normal Americans, the Obama team went on the airwaves to falsely characterize what happened. I think their goal was to have a wonderful performance by Zelensky, an angry Trump appearing to scuttle the deal, and the support of the neocon portion of the GOP to start applying pressure on Trump to have US Troop commitments as part of the "security guarantee." It was a set-up, in Susan Rice's interesting choice of words. Instead, Zelensky had one of the worst stage performances of his acting career, and Trump was statesmanlike (against all odds) throughout. Zelensky followed Team Obama's advice to be hostile to a tee, but it didn't land how they thought it would. Surprisingly, one of the most important aspects of it not working out might have been Lindsay Graham's reaction. Had he and other neocons thought Zelensky was being reasonable, Trump would be having to fight (even moreso) the neocon portion of the GOP in addition to Team Obama's dirty tricks. Even the "conservative" neocon pundits on TV last night were admitting Zelensky had royally messed up. As you can see from the hostility of the bureaucracy to any Republican oversight, no matter how reasonable or minor it may be, the entrenched bureaucracy and permanent DC apparatus is quite active. That goes quadruple for the deep state in the Intelligence Community. I'd expect more and more shenanigans and to be prepared so that you don't fall for the next information operation. The post-WWII architecture in Europe and the US needs this war to continue or be settled on "US troops on the ground" type guarantees, even though that's not what Americans want. Things will heat up here, and it's a very dangerous time.
Susan Rice - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
My comment has nothing to do with Trump.
The often repeated Hitler-Munich appeasement analogy does not apply to a situation where enormous amounts of blood was sacrificed to prevent a takeover of the Ukraine.
The U.S. and European support helped prevent that takeover.
WTF does that have to do with proving your claim that Putin is afraid of Trump??
All that does is reinforce my opinion of your simplemindedness which you have repeatedly and clearly demonstrated.
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I'm not saying Mitch is planning anything.
He's a parrot and a troll.
But since he just acts as a puke funnel, you can see what the actual orchestrated pitch is based on what he's parroting.
For every government worker he lays off, it will translate to probably 5 friends or family members not voting for him.
When the American people's pockets start to feel it, watch out.
What it shows is that Putin certainly wasn't afraid of Sleepy Joe....LMAO That's why Putin started the war when sleepy Joe was President!!
Putin wouldn't have dared to start the war if Trump was president in 2020!!
I totally agree that Zelensky was the problem today after watching the whole session. Don’t rely on media excerpts if you want to get to the truth.
@ZelenskyyUa
mishandled this. And I say this as someone who has supported
@Ukraine
from the beginning of the war.
@realDonaldTrump
was appropriately angry, but kept his composure. In a negotiation, you should never overplay your hand, particularly if it is a bad one, and the lives of your people are at stake. In order to be a mediator, you can’t be viewed by either side as favoring the other. Trump is carefully and patiently playing this role. It is not helpful for Zelensky to be disrespectful. That said, I expect Trump to continue to be the honest broker between Russia and Ukraine, but he will now likely increase what he wants for the U.S. unless Zelensky quickly apologizes and offers something to Trump. A very unfortunate day for Ukraine.
Not naive, nottyboi (and Vance and Trump) are just big fans of the Melian Dialogue.
Always amazing how people who supposedly support Trump make him the villain in these things.
The EU is sitting on 200-300 billion Euros in seized Russian assets.
There is a lot of talk now on freeing that up and sending it to Ukraine.
EU eyes €200B secret weapon as Trump dominates Ukraine peace talks
Europe has significant leverage after being left out of key talks on ending the war in Ukraine, but will it use it?
www.politico.eu
The shifting alliances are the big deal now, the EU is clearly standing with Ukraine. The US now totally untrustworthy as an ally.
