Trump/Zelensky deal turns into Jerry Springer episode

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Russia GDP US$2 trillion
UK GDP US$3.5 trillion
France GDP US$3.1 trillion
Germany GDP US$4.5 trillion
Italy GDP US$2.3 trillion
U.S. GDP US$28 trillion
As you can see the US has more than double that of UK, France, Germany and Italy combined. It has funded a majority of the war effort. Zelenksy must realize that. If the US walks away he cannot rely on Europe solely.

The GDP of EU is 20T. 10 times that of Russia.
I think EU can very well support Ukraine and hold its own against Russia.

 

[mandrill]

Regardless of one's sentiment here, the Ukraine is going to be very costly to the West for years to come.

Not as costly as the Baltics, Scandinavia, Romania and Poland would be if they did nothing.

 

[Anbarandy]

If you want Ukraine's rare earth minerals, you'd have to at the very least be able to guarantee their safety for the foreseeable future.
It is not like the US does not have any experience with that sort of thing.
Do you think Zelensky will just sign away his country's natural resources in return for nothing?

No, no, no ..... you got it all wrong.

What Trump was/is saying is:

"You can trust me and Putin to have your back."

 

[Anbarandy]

When was the last time we saw any Western leader act like this? No idea.

US politics I think has hit a new historic low. The Democratic Party has effectively collapsed as nothing more than controlled opposition and the GOP has no solid policy, or direction. It's literally a day to day, what the hell will happen next shitshow.

My prediction it will get worse before it gets better is coming true. The hubris of the Oligarchs is coming to the fore. Especially the Tech ones. Amazing how only a few years ago they were woke Democrats and now they see a clear opening and are taking it.

I'm really glad right now I reordered things in my life to secure things up. Rough times are clearly coming. Europe has a very tough choice to make. We shall see whether they will step up now. Because barring a complete capitulation by Zelensky(unless this is a ploy to try to get the Ukrainian parliament to remove him for some reason) Ukraine will not survive.

Howz your basement, video gamer anarchist club shaping up?

U guyz doing field training in Muskoka yet?

 

[shack]

I think that's what I said.

I hadn't reached that yet.

I was about an hour behind real time posting when I got on and it was about 8 pages behind. The posts are coming fast and furious. I'm finally caught up and exhausted.

 

[mandrill]

The Soviet Russia called it "liberation" that's why I put quotes around it. I believe they propped up local communist militias and absorbed these former regions of Russia into the Soviet Union.

They actually conquered all of those regions with a large army.

 

[mandrill]

As far as I can see defending Ukraine is not the primary
objective of the proxy war. The proxy war is more about
weakening Russia. By now Putin and Russia has been considerably
weakened. Not likely they could wage another all-out war
after Ukraine which will be saved from conquest by Russia
by Trump's crafty peace-by-extortion scheme if things work out.

What drugs are you on today?

 

[WyattEarp]

Pretty much. I've put quite confrontative comments beneath.......

You? No?

 

[shack]

No, no, no ..... you got it all wrong.

What Trump was/is saying is:

"You can trust me and Putin to have your back."

I don't see what can go wrong with that.

 

[mitchell76]

why do you think Putin attack Ukraine?

Due to the fact, that Biden was such a weak president!!

 

[oil&gas]

No, no, no ..... you got it all wrong.

What Trump was/is saying is:

"You can trust me and Putin to have your back."

Zelensky can trust Trump is not going to split profits
with Putin earned from the mines stolen from Ukraine.
That should assure him of the security guarantee he
wants.

 

[WyattEarp]

Zelenskyy bending the knee here...Well sort of.

I'll give it to him...He goes right on Fox News right after the blow up today.

Trump is really going to grind him now though.

Good interview by Brett..Didn't talk over him and let him answer all his questions.

Thanks. Some video clips of (or from) direct participants are always helpful.
Twitterati with no dog in the fight not so much.

 

[mandrill]

Much if this seems to be acrimony harbored towards Russia that has carried over from the 2016 Hillary fiasco.

Phil, you're probably like me. You note with bemusement that they didn't care when Putin was chewing off pieces of Ukraine in Obama's second term.

You should try and think outside the "I don't like the Dems" box and try to understand international politics and how they develop.

In 2014, I supported Ukraine and broke with a number of Russian internet friends on the issue. But I thought Ukraine was dumb to end the lease on Sevastopol and Russia's seizure was predictable and not unreasonable. Crimea is not ethnically Ukrainian. I had a buddy who was a Russophone from Donbass who passionately supported Putin and couldn't handle Maidan at all. I thought that the 2016 borders were not bad, although I thought my Donbass buddy and his friends made a dumb, bad choice in terms of rejecting the west. and the promise of a better future.

In 2022, Putin was invading core ethnic Ukrainian territory and the Ukes were clearly determined to fight him off. So I perceive it as a struggle against a tyrannous invader, rather than a conflict over where to re draw the borders of the 2 countries post Maidan.

That help you understand things a little better? Like I said: Reading about the actual conflict and talking to people helps you not to look like a 2 dimensional idiot.

 

[Anbarandy]

This why exactly why I don't trust today's media. They spin the narrative one way or another.

So... I decided to watch the ENTIRE conference which is about 50 minutes long. It was pretty friendly for about 40 minutes, until Zelensky escalated things.

Watch the entire conference for yourself, THEN make up your mind.

Thanks for the video of the entire conference which I just finished watching.

I made up my mind too, just like you did, and the the result is:

"You were watching something else, not the video that you posted."

 

[mitchell76]

It is stage managed for him to wear those clothes as a leader of a nation that is at war.

Tom's Place offered to give Zelensky free suits.......LMAO

 

[WyattEarp]

Rubio gives a great interview here...

Rubio gives great talking head. Sincerely.

 

[Vinson]

 

[Bucktee]

The GDP of EU is 20T. 10 times that of Russia.
I think EU can very well support Ukraine and hold its own against Russia.

In theory, you're right.

But the EU doesn't like to spend money. They expect daddy USA to do all the heavy lifting.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

In theory, you're right.

But the EU doesn't like to spend money. They expect daddy USA to do all the heavy lifting.

Because the US benefits the most from this.
But if the US wants to undermine itself then EU is capable of stepping up.

 

[mitchell76]

What evidence do you have that supports your claims?

And please don't revert to your usual endless barrage of video clips and links to obscure news sources.