Ford passed the legislation for ripping up the bike lanes TODAY!!

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
53,935
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Sure, but about half of Toronto doesn't own cars or need them downtown.
The population of Toronto is 3M. Half is 1.5M. GTA is 7M. And even if people don't own a car, they get to places by car via car pools or ride shares or taxis.

Do you think that serving 1M people at the expense of 6M car owners makes sense or will even have much of an impact?

The problem from day 1 has been the idiocy of all of our previous councils/mayors in not focussing on giving us a proper subway system. What we have is Mickey Mouse. Let's study this, let's table that etc. etc. then a new mayor comes in and they start all over again. City of Montreal is 1.7M and metro Montreal is 4.5M and I wouldn't be surprised if they had double or even triple the miles of track than we do. Who wants to stand outside in the snow, rain, heat, cold waiting for so-called rapid transit when underground is so much more comfortable. Comfort and convenience which approximates that of a car will get them to change their habits.

Too bad it's kinda late for that now for Toronto. No proposal will work unless it's comfortable and convenient. Bikes provide neither and cater to probably less than 5% of GTA population.

Toronto and Ontario and even the Feds need to suck it up and do some ma$$ive digging to free up our roadways. We are Canada's economic hub.
 

Anbarandy

Bitter House****
Apr 27, 2006
11,262
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The population of Toronto is 3M. Half is 1.5M. GTA is 7M. And even if people don't own a car, they get to places by car via car pools or ride shares or taxis.

Do you think that serving 1M people at the expense of 6M car owners makes sense or will even have much of an impact?

The problem from day 1 has been the idiocy of all of our previous councils/mayors in not focussing on giving us a proper subway system. What we have is Mickey Mouse. Let's study this, let's table that etc. etc. then a new mayor comes in and they start all over again. City of Montreal is 1.7M and metro Montreal is 4.5M and I wouldn't be surprised if they had double or even triple the miles of track than we do. Who wants to stand outside in the snow, rain, heat, cold waiting for so-called rapid transit when underground is so much more comfortable. Comfort and convenience which approximates that of a car will get them to change their habits.

Too bad it's kinda late for that now for Toronto. No proposal will work unless it's comfortable and convenient. Bikes provide neither and cater to probably less than 5% of GTA population.

Toronto and Ontario and even the Feds need to suck it up and do some ma$$ive digging to free up our roadways. We are Canada's economic hub.
What does any of the above have to do with the Fraud proposing to remove bike lanes on Bloor, Yonge and University other than employing it as a cynical culture war tactic in his soon to be upcoming unlegislated, unneeded, unwanted, unwarranted and utterly wasteful $3.4billion early election?

Zero fuck all.

As if removing a bike lane or two will alleviate in any way, shape and form what you described in your post.
 
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roddermac

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2023
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The less cars on the road, the better for you, Dirk, Mandrill and all other road users and residents of the GTA.

Traffic evaporation:

Seoul, South Korea. 80% of motor vehicle traffic disappeared after the Cheonggyecheon Expressway was demolished,

Other cities report between 20 - 25% drop in motor vehicle traffic after road lanes are removed.
Have you ever been to those countries. See how well they are developed and their public transportation system. Plus the auto industry is part of our economy and employs many people.
 

roddermac

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2023
1,918
1,585
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The population of Toronto is 3M. Half is 1.5M. GTA is 7M. And even if people don't own a car, they get to places by car via car pools or ride shares or taxis.

Do you think that serving 1M people at the expense of 6M car owners makes sense or will even have much of an impact?

The problem from day 1 has been the idiocy of all of our previous councils/mayors in not focussing on giving us a proper subway system. What we have is Mickey Mouse. Let's study this, let's table that etc. etc. then a new mayor comes in and they start all over again. City of Montreal is 1.7M and metro Montreal is 4.5M and I wouldn't be surprised if they had double or even triple the miles of track than we do. Who wants to stand outside in the snow, rain, heat, cold waiting for so-called rapid transit when underground is so much more comfortable. Comfort and convenience which approximates that of a car will get them to change their habits.

Too bad it's kinda late for that now for Toronto. No proposal will work unless it's comfortable and convenient. Bikes provide neither and cater to probably less than 5% of GTA population.

Toronto and Ontario and even the Feds need to suck it up and do some ma$$ive digging to free up our roadways. We are Canada's economic hub.
The only infrastructure we have in the GTA is skyscrapers built right to the edge of the sidewalk.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
53,935
11,813
113
Toronto
What does any of the above have to do with the Fraud proposing to remove bike lanes on Bloor, Yonge and University other than employing it as a cynical culture war tactic in his soon to be upcoming unlegislated, unneeded, unwanted, unwarranted and $3.4billion early election?
We're talking about bike lanes in particular as it relates to traffic in Toronto. I'm talking about traffic in Toronto as a whole and I addressed bike lanes by saying they will not help the problem because Torontonians will only accept, en mass, a solution that is comfortable and convenient, and bikes are neither.

Chill out dude. Take a valium.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
98,842
26,528
113
The population of Toronto is 3M. Half is 1.5M. GTA is 7M. And even if people don't own a car, they get to places by car via car pools or ride shares or taxis.

Do you think that serving 1M people at the expense of 6M car owners makes sense or will even have much of an impact?

The problem from day 1 has been the idiocy of all of our previous councils/mayors in not focussing on giving us a proper subway system. What we have is Mickey Mouse. Let's study this, let's table that etc. etc. then a new mayor comes in and they start all over again. City of Montreal is 1.7M and metro Montreal is 4.5M and I wouldn't be surprised if they had double or even triple the miles of track than we do. Who wants to stand outside in the snow, rain, heat, cold waiting for so-called rapid transit when underground is so much more comfortable. Comfort and convenience which approximates that of a car will get them to change their habits.

Too bad it's kinda late for that now for Toronto. No proposal will work unless it's comfortable and convenient. Bikes provide neither and cater to probably less than 5% of GTA population.

Toronto and Ontario and even the Feds need to suck it up and do some ma$$ive digging to free up our roadways. We are Canada's economic hub.
So your answer to the problem of not enough transit is to block another alternate that takes less space on the roads than cars?
A reminder that this is about DoFo trying to cut bike lanes on Yonge and Bloor, both of which are heavily used and both of which have never had 2 lanes of traffic continually.

 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
13,061
3,107
113
You think DoFo can be trusted with numbers?

Here's a question, if you're crossing east-west in this city, is Dundas faster than College/Carlton?
One of those has bike lanes, one doesn't.

If the DoFo argument is true there should be a massive difference.
I guess we'll have to wait and see who's right when the cost of taking the bike lanes out is tallied up.

Which east/west route is faster by what, car or bike? You didn't specify.
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
13,061
3,107
113
Bro, you have no credibility anymore regarding this topic.

Citing an opinion piece by Brian Lilley of the "credible" Toronto Sun just reinforces your lack of credibility.

You got Denzie Minnan-Wrong citing a 2011 paint job to cover up the Jarvis St. bike lane and perpetually campaigning for mayor, sore loser Brad Bradford opining about costs as smoking gun witnesses to the cost of removal.

Bro, how low can you go?
Like I said to Frankie, I guess we'll see who was right as to the cost once the bike lanes are removed.
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
13,061
3,107
113
I was out running errands throughout the downtown core both yesterday and today. I drove my car, as cycling wasn't practical and many of the roads I took had bike lanes. Since this thread has been on my mind, I was paying attention to the number of cyclists riding around. It was cool, above freezing and also dry both days.

What I noticed was just how few people were out cycling. On top of that, the vast majority of them were food delivery bikes. I would imagine the number of cyclists will continue to decline over the winter months, until things start to warm back up in the spring.

The good news is, just about every bikeshare station was completely full. Which confirms my observation, of just how few were cycling the past couple days.
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
53,935
11,813
113
Toronto
So your answer to the problem of not enough transit is to block another alternate that takes less space on the roads than cars?
I stated my answer in the earlier post. Go back and read it.

BTW, you said that you don't like when people speak on your behalf. You should stop being a hypocrite who incessantly does that very thing to other people.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
98,842
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I stated my answer in the earlier post. Go back and read it.

BTW, you said that you don't like when people speak on your behalf. You should stop being a hypocrite who incessantly does that very thing to other people.
I read your post, you argued that lack of transit is the problem.
I responded to that argument.
The problem from day 1 has been the idiocy of all of our previous councils/mayors in not focussing on giving us a proper subway system.
 

Leimonis

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2020
10,357
10,375
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I was out running errands throughout the downtown core both yesterday and today. I drove my car, as cycling wasn't practical and many of the roads I took had bike lanes. Since this thread has been on my mind, I was paying attention to the number of cyclists riding around. It was cool, above freezing and also dry both days.

What I noticed was just how few people were out cycling. On top of that, the vast majority of them were food delivery bikes. I would imagine the number of cyclists will continue to decline over the winter months, until things start to warm back up in the spring.

The good news is, just about every bikeshare station was completely full. Which confirms my observation, of just how few were cycling the past couple days.
Well, activists have been cycling
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
53,935
11,813
113
Toronto
I read your post, you argued that lack of transit is the problem.
I responded to that argument.
I was not that vague. I said that our Mickey Mouse subway system, in particular, is the problem. We need more subways to get as much stuff as possible (in whatever form, including bikes) off the streets.

Any major alternative to what we have now has to be comfortable and convenient to be effective, otherwise not enough people will buy in. Bicycles do not fit the bill.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
98,842
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I was not that vague. I said that our Mickey Mouse subway system, in particular, is the problem. We need more subways to get as much stuff as possible (in whatever form, including bikes) off the streets.

Any major alternative to what we have now has to be comfortable and convenient to be effective, otherwise not enough people will buy in. Bicycles do not fit the bill.
Just because you're old and need a walker doesn't mean that biking isn't comfortable and convenient for others.
Its not for everyone, just people who can still use their bodies.
Otherwise its way more convenient than driving downtown, door to door, parking is easier, traffic is less of a pain, no waiting and you get in shape.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
53,935
11,813
113
Toronto
Just because you're old and need a walker doesn't mean that biking isn't comfortable and convenient for others.
Its not for everyone, just people who can still use their bodies.
Otherwise its way more convenient than driving downtown, door to door, parking is easier, traffic is less of a pain, no waiting and you get in shape.
You are out of touch with reality.

Have you noticed that in Toronto from November to March people do not want to be exposed to the elements? Unlike you, some people have to look respectable for work. Who wants to be dressed in a suit that they've sweated through after a 4 km. commute. Of course, who gives a shit about a mother dealing with an infant or toddler. Who is going to carry 4 bags of groceries (one week's worth for a family of 3, possibly) while biking, people who commute and on and on and on. Bike lanes benefit maybe 2% of the population of the GTA.

As well, you did not address the effectiveness of massively expanding our subway system. It is indisputable that removing as much detritus (in terms of traffic) from the surface roads to underground is the best solution. Costs should be a non-issue as the gridlock in the economic hub of the entire country ends out costing Canada, as a whole, way more than subways would in the long run. Hamas has done a better job of digging than Toronto has.

And thanks for showing that you have no respect for older people. You are an ageist. FYI, that's not an admirable quality. Do you have any?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
98,842
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You are out of touch with reality.

Have you noticed that in Toronto from November to March people do not want to be exposed to the elements? Unlike you, some people have to look respectable for work. Who wants to be dressed in a suit that they've sweated through after a 4 km. commute. Of course, who gives a shit about a mother dealing with an infant or toddler. Who is going to carry 4 bags of groceries (one week's worth for a family of 3, possibly) while biking, people who commute and on and on and on. Bike lanes benefit maybe 2% of the population of the GTA.

As well, you did not address the effectiveness of massively expanding our subway system. It is indisputable that removing as much detritus (in terms of traffic) from the surface roads to underground is the best solution. Costs should be a non-issue as the gridlock in the economic hub of the entire country ends out costing Canada, as a whole, way more than subways would in the long run. Hamas has done a better job of digging than Toronto has.

And thanks for showing that you have no respect for older people. You are an ageist. FYI, that's not an admirable quality. Do you have any?
Lots of people take a change of clothes in paniers, its no big deal and you see them everywhere. Or you would if you went outside.
Same with bike seats, trailers, baskets, ebikes and other options for groceries. No big deal.

This isn't about forcing mothers with toddlers to bike, though lots do, this is about giving people a safe option to choose to bike.
Why do you want to force people to stop biking and start driving?

Its nothing new and its going on all over the world.

 

roddermac

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2023
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Good one.

But I said that we need to dig and skyscrapers go in the opposite direction. They're "upfastructure".
My point was the only projects you see getting built now are condos. And they build them as close to the sidewalk as possible leaving no room to expand the roadways to add a bike path or should they build a LRT then the car lanes would have to be removed. They don't plan ahead.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
98,842
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My point was the only projects you see getting built now are condos. And they build them as close to the sidewalk as possible leaving no room to expand the roadways to add a bike path or should they build a LRT then the car lanes would have to be removed. They don't plan ahead.
Not only that but the city is allowing construction projects to bloat into the street and take over lanes and sidewalks, making traffic much worse.
 
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