Ford passed the legislation for ripping up the bike lanes TODAY!!

[Frankfooter]

Santa Claus is more of a reality than anything you believe in.

There were studies backing up what I said.
For you?
Nothing.

Why is DoFo wasting $75 million to tear up bike lanes people use instead of fixing health care, education or homelessness.
All he wants to do is give away public services so donors can make bank, from the LCBO to healthcare.

 

[GameBoy27]

There were studies backing up what I said.
For you?
Nothing.

Why is DoFo wasting $75 million to tear up bike lanes people use instead of fixing health care, education or homelessness.
All he wants to do is give away public services so donors can make bank, from the LCBO to healthcare.

Like this article states, the city can't be trusted when it comes to the cost estimate to remove the bike lanes. The city says it's going to cost double the amount to remove then than it did to install. How is that possible? Especially when the cost to install them included the price of the flexi-posts themselves. Maybe the city should open up bidding to all contractors for the removal. I bet they would find the price is far less than they what they've estimated. But that wouldn't support their narrative.

https://torontosun.com/news/provinc...e-bike-lanes-shows-city-staff-cant-be-trusted

 

[Anbarandy]

You don't absorb what people point out to you.

You can't suddenly ban / discourage cars in TO. The city isn't built for transit and bicycles, once you get out of the downtown core. It's under serviced with transit and it's too extensive. No one can bicycle from Cabbagetown to Brampton or Newmarket. It's not do-able.

Unlike London where you can get from the outer burbs like Croydon or Finchley directly to downtown by subway or above ground rail efficiently in 20 minutes, Toronto doesn't have that kind of transit service.

You have been told this repeatedly. You don't even acknowledge the argument or respond to it.

You simply post your photos of the DVP and 401 gridlocking.

You're like all the other bikies. Nothing exists outside your own woke world where no one should ever drive a car, no one lives or works in the outer burbs and everyone bikes around downtown where they both live and work.

WTF is there to absorb except your delusions blaming a few bike lanes instead of the millions of motor vehicles overwhelming, congesting, gridlocking every square centimeter of precious paved road space?

No one is banning cars. It's in your and their deluded head, this war on the car culture war bullshit. It's not the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s anymore though you believe it to be. And no amount of removing bike lanes will ever make your backwards looking wishes and dreams come true let alone ease motor vehicle caused congestion and gridlock one frickin bit.

In your above post, you basically state that the downtown core which I am sure based upon your previous posts refers also to the inner core of Toronto WAS/IS built for transit and bicycles! BUILT FOR BIKES you say! And now in the areas where the city is built for bikes, early election, culture war Doug wants to get rid of 3 bike lanes routes in the downtown and inner core. In the areas of the city where bike usage is the highest. What a load of delusional shit!

Who TF is "going to bicycle from Cabbagetown to Brampton or Newmarket", you opine? What are u frickin that delusional? You've lost your marbles on this bud.

I will tell you what you see, since you can't stomach to see the photos, on your effed up, congestion, gridlocked motor vehicle commutes.

It's millions of single occupancy vehicles in front of, behind, to the left and to the right, for as far as your bulging eyes can see taking up every square centimeter of paved tar that is the cause of single occupancy motor vehicle-ing mayhem.

Nothing exists outside of your backwards thinking coffin comfort of you and your precious car.

 

[dirkd101]

Except that it would work but it would piss off DoFo's suburban base.
Ford won't allow it for that reason but its the solution.

Killing bike lanes will slow the city down, neither Yonge or Bloor have been 2 lanes of traffic for a long time. You just get pockets of two lanes then bottle necks repeatedly.
Its not a solution.

Mandrill has this fantasy that he thinks everyone downtown works in Milton, a single day's drive during rush hour on the highways would clear that misconception up.
The congestion is people outside the city driving into the city, not his single neighbour who works in Whitby.

I agree with you that Toronto has a large workforce that comes from outside of the city every day. That being said, they also have many events that are well attended by those from outside of the city limits. Here's where I disagree with you about the levies. There are already levies(taxes) on the things people come into the city for, whether they are collected by the city, the province or the feds. Toronto cries poor and one level of the government or another hands them some money. Just recently the city claimed how much Taylor Swift and her fan base would bring to the city. So the city made bank on this one event and this is just one, among many events that they host. There would be an outcry from all who come here, if they had to pay an additional levy, when they've paid one or more on whatever they came into the city for. You blame Ford here, about levies and him standing up for the suburbs. If it was that easy, then why didn't the liberals allow the city to do this under Wynne or McGuinty? My memory is fuzzy on this, but I believe they were approached over it, in one way or another, and denied the city this form of taxation.

As for the bike lanes, I maintain that they help cause gridlock. A highway study from many years ago showed that closing down one lane of a three lane highway, reduced the highway by 50%. I can't quote figures about a two lane roadway, but I'm sure it has to be over a 50% reduction in traffic flow. There are secondary routes, where this impact will not be felt.

As well, this city has always been anti-car, thinking that their "world class" transit system was the answer to everything (that's a whole other story). Fast forward to today, where they embrace the buzz words of the day and say that they are going "green" for the people of Toronto and they are going to save the environment, and small special interest group, like cyclists, who seem to get their way here, get the bike lanes that they have always wanted. Here's the problem with how they go about doing it. They don't use any common sense. Plain and simple. They want them on the main roads for exposure, showing their commitment to the "green" movement. Better planning could have save the city a lot of headaches and it could serve everyone, not just one group. If you are indeed a "world class" city, then you need to address your issue with common sense and real answers to what is needed. I'm not saying no to any bike lanes, I'm just saying that there are better alternatives to the way that they've done it.

 

[Frankfooter]

Like this article states, the city can't be trusted when it comes to the cost estimate to remove the bike lanes. The city says it's going to cost double the amount to remove then than it did to install. How is that possible? Especially when the cost to install them included the price of the flexi-posts themselves. Maybe the city should open up bidding to all contractors for the removal. I bet they would find the price is far less than they what they've estimated. But that wouldn't support their narrative.

https://torontosun.com/news/provinc...e-bike-lanes-shows-city-staff-cant-be-trusted

You think DoFo can be trusted with numbers?

Here's a question, if you're crossing east-west in this city, is Dundas faster than College/Carlton?
One of those has bike lanes, one doesn't.

If the DoFo argument is true there should be a massive difference.

 

[Anbarandy]

Like this article states, the city can't be trusted when it comes to the cost estimate to remove the bike lanes. The city says it's going to cost double the amount to remove then than it did to install. How is that possible? Especially when the cost to install them included the price of the flexi-posts themselves. Maybe the city should open up bidding to all contractors for the removal. I bet they would find the price is far less than they what they've estimated. But that wouldn't support their narrative.

https://torontosun.com/news/provinc...e-bike-lanes-shows-city-staff-cant-be-trusted

Bro, you have no credibility anymore regarding this topic.

Citing an opinion piece by Brian Lilley of the "credible" Toronto Sun just reinforces your lack of credibility.

You got Denzie Minnan-Wrong citing a 2011 paint job to cover up the Jarvis St. bike lane and perpetually campaigning for mayor, sore loser Brad Bradford opining about costs as smoking gun witnesses to the cost of removal.

Bro, how low can you go?

 

[Frankfooter]

I agree with you that Toronto has a large workforce that comes from outside of the city every day. That being said, they also have many events that are well attended by those from outside of the city limits. Here's where I disagree with you about the levies. There are already levies(taxes) on the things people come into the city for, whether they are collected by the city, the province or the feds. Toronto cries poor and one level of the government or another hands them some money. Just recently the city claimed how much Taylor Swift and her fan base would bring to the city. So the city made bank on this one event and this is just one, among many events that they host. There would be an outcry from all who come here, if they had to pay an additional levy, when they've paid one or more on whatever they came into the city for. You blame Ford here, about levies and him standing up for the suburbs. If it was that easy, then why didn't the liberals allow the city to do this under Wynne or McGuinty? My memory is fuzzy on this, but I believe they were approached over it, in one way or another, and denied the city this form of taxation.

As for the bike lanes, I maintain that they help cause gridlock. A highway study from many years ago showed that closing down one lane of a three lane highway, reduced the highway by 50%. I can't quote figures about a two lane roadway, but I'm sure it has to be over a 50% reduction in traffic flow. There are secondary routes, where this impact will not be felt.

As well, this city has always been anti-car, thinking that their "world class" transit system was the answer to everything (that's a whole other story). Fast forward to today, where they embrace the buzz words of the day and say that they are going "green" for the people of Toronto and they are going to save the environment, and small special interest group, like cyclists, who seem to get their way here, get the bike lanes that they have always wanted. Here's the problem with how they go about doing it. They don't use any common sense. Plain and simple. They want them on the main roads for exposure, showing their commitment to the "green" movement. Better planning could have save the city a lot of headaches and it could serve everyone, not just one group. If you are indeed a "world class" city, then you need to address your issue with common sense and real answers to what is needed. I'm not saying no to any bike lanes, I'm just saying that there are better alternatives to the way that they've done it.

If you want less traffic you need to encourage alternates to driving.
Biking and transit are the two best options, they take up way less road space than cars per person.

Check this photo, you think traffic would be better with those people in 8 cars?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1847393779474379048

 

[dirkd101]

What a frickin joke!

What did you expect would happen?

Fuckers from the suburbs and inner suburbs still stuck in a time and age that no long exists.

But of course, it couldn't have been:

- the sheer amount of idiot motor vehicle drivers overwhelming the roads
- construction, Ontario Line closures, Gardiner rehab road closures
- necessary stoplights
- motor vehicle gridlock
- motor vehicle blocking the the box
- motor vehicle illegal stopping/parking taking up a lane and blocking traffic

Yeah, it's shocking that I didn't take the GO train, which would have taken just as long, and then hopped on transit, which adds more time and which was stuck in the same gridlock, of construction projects that shut down many routes at the same time. That's called poor planning on the cities part for allowing such stupidity and this very same thing was pointed out. But I digress...

You're right, I remember a time when one could drive into the city for an event and it wasn't so bad. Hell, even rush hour wasn't horrible. That doesn't mean I'm stuck in the past and good for you, living downtown and you embrace that lifestyle. I guess you're looking for recognition of such, as I see your sneer, as you look down on us suburbanites. As a city dweller, I guess you feel superior to us rubes from the burbs. and how dare we come to "your" city in our vehicles...

I come into the city for a special event, with suitcase and nice clothes in hand, I'm driving.

Toronto, and many who live there, looks upon itself with rose coloured glasses and is stuck in a a dimension that does not exist. You're proof of that. Utopia is a dream and Toronto isn't it.

 

[roddermac]

There were studies backing up what I said.
For you?
Nothing.

Why is DoFo wasting $75 million to tear up bike lanes people use instead of fixing health care, education or homelessness.
All he wants to do is give away public services so donors can make bank, from the LCBO to healthcare.

Oh now it's $75 million. Last week it was $46 million. Wow the price keeps going up to fix liberal minded screw ups. Putting the bike lanes in was money wasted.

 

[dirkd101]

If you want less traffic you need to encourage alternates to driving.
Biking and transit are the two best options, they take up way less road space than cars per person.

Check this photo, you think traffic would be better with those people in 8 cars?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1847393779474379048

I can't argue that fact. You can fit more bikes than cars in a single space. That's a given.

But let's face facts, Toronto has a large workforce from outside the city. They also host many events in the core. They need to address their issues with regards to traffic in a more thoughtful way. Transit works wonders, if they had more subways. Shutting down King for streetcars wasn't the best idea. Raising the St Clair streetcar tracks, to make it exclusive for streetcars only, ruined the flow of traffic and the feel that that great part of town had.

Again, I'm not against bike lanes, just how the city has approached this issue with where they chose to put them.

 

[roddermac]

I can't argue that fact. You can fit more bikes than cars in a single space. That's a given.

But let's face facts, Toronto has a large workforce from outside the city. They also host many events in the core. They need to address their issues with regards to traffic in a more thoughtful way. Transit works wonders, if they had more subways. Shutting down King for streetcars wasn't the best idea. Raising the St Clair streetcar tracks, to make it exclusive for streetcars only, ruined the flow of traffic and the feel that that great part of town had.

Again, I'm not against bike lanes, just how the city has approached this issue with where they chose to put them.

Double F doesn't realize that many people have jobs that require proper work attire that you normally wouldn't ride a bike while wearing. He doesn't have a job so he just doesn't understand.

 

[dirkd101]

Double F doesn't realize that many people have jobs that require proper work attire that you normally wouldn't ride a bike while wearing. He doesn't have a job so he just doesn't understand.

That's the holier than thou attitude of someone who thinks that they are more than they really are. Espousing their ideals, which don't conform to any sense of reality, as the majority see it.

 

[Frankfooter]

I can't argue that fact. You can fit more bikes than cars in a single space. That's a given.

But let's face facts, Toronto has a large workforce from outside the city. They also host many events in the core. They need to address their issues with regards to traffic in a more thoughtful way. Transit works wonders, if they had more subways. Shutting down King for streetcars wasn't the best idea. Raising the St Clair streetcar tracks, to make it exclusive for streetcars only, ruined the flow of traffic and the feel that that great part of town had.

Again, I'm not against bike lanes, just how the city has approached this issue with where they chose to put them.

Sure, but about half of Toronto doesn't own cars or need them downtown.
Now you want to make life harder for them in order for you, who doesn't live here, to be able to drive here easier because its the easiest way for you.

I live here and use bike lanes constantly, if the bike lanes are cut I'll either have to take a full lane on my bike or drive.
Why do you think that will help traffic?

 

[dirkd101]

Sure, but about half of Toronto doesn't own cars or need them downtown.
Now you want to make life harder for them in order for you, who doesn't live here, to be able to drive here easier because its the easiest way for you.

I live here and use bike lanes constantly, if the bike lanes are cut I'll either have to take a full lane on my bike or drive.
Why do you think that will help traffic?

Correct, I don't live downtown, but I do work in the city and frequent it for many events.

It's not just myself that has issue with the traffic in the core, and we all make choices as to where we live and how we get around.

Toronto has had traffic issues for years. Even before the bike lanes. The bike lanes have added to their woes.


Are you afraid of being on a secondary route? As I'm sure it would add to your ride. Why does the thought of being relegated to a secondary route cause you so much anguish? The better the flow, the better for the city. Right? It's all about what's better, in my books, which has never been the cities plan. That's the real shame here.

If I were in charge, I would have shut down King years ago. Move the street car tracks to the cub lanes and make an east/west bike route down the middle. Hell, Yonge is no longer what it used to be, so shut the down, add the same for the streetcars in the curb lanes and a north/south bike lane down the middle. Now add in your secondary routes for bike lanes, for getting around. Is this a recipe for success? One can't say, but it does raise questions of better sustainability, rather than throwing bike lanes on every major route in the core.

I've pointed out European cities, which are built on ancient cities, so they have had to deal with more than Toronto's cities planners ever have, with regards to archeological sites and such. Many subway lines. Lanes dedicated to taxis and buses. Multi lanes for vehicular traffic. Bike lanes and wide boulevards for pedestrian traffic. Even very old American cities, on the eastern seaboard, have better subways and traffic flow than Toronto. For all the studies they have conducted, all the European and American cities they've visited, for both transit and traffic studies on the public dime. You'd think they would have come away with something. Sadly though, it shows that they haven't, other than a nice, tax funded holiday, while all those studies sit and collect dust.

Toronto considers itself to be a world class city, then act like it and figure your shit out. Just because one lives in the city, doesn't mean you're insulated from the outside and all others must conform to you're lifestyle and how you get around. Toronto hosts some very large events. As a city dweller, you have to live with that, just as those of us from the burbs live with the traffic we face when we come for those very same events. We plan on this fact and the traffic, which has worsened in recent times.

 

[Frankfooter]

Correct, I don't live downtown, but I do work in the city and frequent it for many events.

It's not just myself that has issue with the traffic in the core, and we all make choices as to where we live and how we get around.

Toronto has had traffic issues for years. Even before the bike lanes. The bike lanes have added to their woes.


Are you afraid of being on a secondary route? As I'm sure it would add to your ride. Why does the thought of being relegated to a secondary route cause you so much anguish? The better the flow, the better for the city. Right? It's all about what's better, in my books, which has never been the cities plan. That's the real shame here.

If I were in charge, I would have shut down King years ago. Move the street car tracks to the cub lanes and make an east/west bike route down the middle. Hell, Yonge is no longer what it used to be, so shut the down, add the same for the streetcars in the curb lanes and a north/south bike lane down the middle. Now add in your secondary routes for bike lanes, for getting around. Is this a recipe for success? One can't say, but it does raise questions of better sustainability, rather than throwing bike lanes on every major route in the core.

I've pointed out European cities, which are built on ancient cities, so they have had to deal with more than Toronto's cities planners ever have, with regards to archeological sites and such. Many subway lines. Lanes dedicated to taxis and buses. Multi lanes for vehicular traffic. Bike lanes and wide boulevards for pedestrian traffic. Even very old American cities, on the eastern seaboard, have better subways and traffic flow than Toronto. For all the studies they have conducted, all the European and American cities they've visited, for both transit and traffic studies on the public dime. You'd think they would have come away with something. Sadly though, it shows that they haven't, other than a nice, tax funded holiday, while all those studies sit and collect dust.

Toronto considers itself to be a world class city, then act like it and figure your shit out. Just because one lives in the city, doesn't mean you're insulated from the outside and all others must conform to you're lifestyle and how you get around. Toronto hosts some very large events. As a city dweller, you have to live with that, just as those of us from the burbs live with the traffic we face when we come for those very same events. We plan on this fact and the traffic, which has worsened in recent times.

Please post a map with the secondary routes you suggest.

 

[dirkd101]

Please post a map with the secondary routes you suggest.

They are there, FF, and you can figure that out for yourself, but that's why uncle Dougie stepped in, because those that live in the city can't seem to figure things out for themselves.

I just pointed out two main routes to get around the city, with the combined use of transit and bike lanes. There is obviously a reluctance on the part of cyclist to take a more circuitous route. Let's face it, you're riding around in the core, for the most part. You're not going from there to the outskirts of what you still consider the burbs, in Etobicoke, North York and Scarborough. Only Philistines live there, right?

As a cyclist and city dweller, you should be a part of the solution.

 

[Frankfooter]

They are there, FF, and you can figure that out for yourself, but that's why uncle Dougie stepped in, because those that live in the city can't seem to figure things out for themselves.

I just pointed out two main routes to get around the city, with the combined use of transit and bike lanes. There is obviously a reluctance on the part of cyclist to take a more circuitous route. Let's face it, you're riding around in the core, for the most part. You're not going from there to the outskirts of what you still consider the burbs, in Etobicoke, North York and Scarborough. Only Philistines live there, right?

As a cyclist and city dweller, you should be a part of the solution.

Ok, since you can't post secondary routes lets move on.

Lets go back to this question.
Which street is faster, Dundas or College, if you're taking east/west routes through downtown?

One has a bike lane and one doesn't.
This should be the best proof of whether bike lanes impact driving speeds.

 

[dirkd101]

Ok, since you can't post secondary routes lets move on.

Lets go back to this question.
Which street is faster, Dundas or College, if you're taking east/west routes through downtown?

One has a bike lane and one doesn't.
This should be the best proof of whether bike lanes impact driving speeds.

And you are reluctant to name any...

Or, even consider the thought...

I could look at a map, knowing the city as I do, and pick out a few alternatives. Sure, there won't be a Bloor street utilized, but you'll still be able to get around easily and safely.

And which street is faster is moot point. All roads have their intricacies, with regards to things like business, on street parking, how transit impacts them, and the number of traffic lights/control/calming devices present, coupled with their traffic patterns.

Seeing that College ends at Dundas, makes it a likely secondary route to me, as all traffic then ends up on Dundas.

I won't guess, as to which is faster though, as one ends and the other is longer and crosses the city further than College/Carlton.

Why the reluctance to think differently? I'm willing to concede roads to transit/bicycle use, coupled with some secondary routes, to aid in a different traffic plan. Get the city moving!! If it's not, then transit is at a standstill, as are those in vehicles. Deliveries are late, the price of business goes up, when these deliveries are stuck idling, doing nothing.

 

[mandrill]

Double F doesn't realize that many people have jobs that require proper work attire that you normally wouldn't ride a bike while wearing. He doesn't have a job so he just doesn't understand.

Also briefcases. Also shopping bags. Also kids. Also old people can't ride bikes. Disabled people can't ride bikes.

The bike lanes actually discriminate against the old and the disabled and advantage young people.

 

[mandrill]

WTF is there to absorb except your delusions blaming a few bike lanes instead of the millions of motor vehicles overwhelming, congesting, gridlocking every square centimeter of precious paved road space?

No one is banning cars. It's in your and their deluded head, this war on the car culture war bullshit. It's not the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s anymore though you believe it to be. And no amount of removing bike lanes will ever make your backwards looking wishes and dreams come true let alone ease motor vehicle caused congestion and gridlock one frickin bit.

In your above post, you basically state that the downtown core which I am sure based upon your previous posts refers also to the inner core of Toronto WAS/IS built for transit and bicycles! BUILT FOR BIKES you say! And now in the areas where the city is built for bikes, early election, culture war Doug wants to get rid of 3 bike lanes routes in the downtown and inner core. In the areas of the city where bike usage is the highest. What a load of delusional shit!

Who TF is "going to bicycle from Cabbagetown to Brampton or Newmarket", you opine? What are u frickin that delusional? You've lost your marbles on this bud.

I will tell you what you see, since you can't stomach to see the photos, on your effed up, congestion, gridlocked motor vehicle commutes.

It's millions of single occupancy vehicles in front of, behind, to the left and to the right, for as far as your bulging eyes can see taking up every square centimeter of paved tar that is the cause of single occupancy motor vehicle-ing mayhem.

Nothing exists outside of your backwards thinking coffin comfort of you and your precious car.

You never understand my argument, even though I've explained it a dozen times to you.

No one drives around downtown. I go from Little Portugal to the courts downtown by TTC or - most of the time - I just walk because the TTC is so infrequent.

People drive to get in and out of downtown to go to jobs or errands in the burbs. That's why the cars are still needed. I drive to go to courts in Brampton or Newmarket. Or to run errands for my mom. Or to go to the mall because shopping's heavy to walk around with.

You just automatically write your "I hate all cars" nonsense, regardless of whatever I post. You just can't do the dialogue because your brain simply doesn't work that well.