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TRUMP WINS

Shaquille Oatmeal

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Jun 2, 2023
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That's just a twist of words. Citizenship is and should be more than just legality.

There are North Americans who hold citizenship in three or more countries. Yeah, your view that it's nothing more than a piece of paper would be correct for these "citizens".
No it is not a twist of words.
You are conflating both.
And no it shouldn't.
No one can be a naturalized citizen if that was the case.
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
16,999
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Its just a piece of paper in the end?
This is just flippant bullshit.

I don't view those of us who were born and raised in our respective countries as just paper-holders.
I don't view those of us who served in our respective militaries as just paper-holders.
I don't view those of us who give back to our communities and serve communities as just paper-holders.

I view citizenship as a whole lot more than just a piece of paper in the end.
well said
citizenship is also respect for the country's laws and the countries boarders
illegal immigrants by definition do not respect the laws or boarders of the country as they by definition believe the laws of the country do not apply to them

today is remembrance day
it would be prudent for all to pause and think carefully about the lives lost to protect the value of the "citizenship as a whole lot more than just a piece of paper '
 
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JohnLarue

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Jan 19, 2005
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The national party works with the state parties to control much of corporate capitalism. As long as the states and executives don't threaten the party and its interests, they stay in the good graces of the CCP.
and if you do not stay in the good graces of the CCP , you disappear
Capitalism is so much easier when you can eliminate the domestic competition

how anyone can deem this a success is bewildering
 

WyattEarp

Well-known member
May 17, 2017
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No it is not a twist of words.
You are conflating both.
And no it shouldn't.
No one can be a naturalized citizen if that was the case.
I never said citizenship should be excluded to a birth right. I stated "I view citizenship as a whole lot more than just a piece of paper in the end." Common definitions discuss rights and responsibilities. Without getting all law and order about it, responsibilities would include following the processes set forth by the country you want to make your new home.

In the end, naturalization should involve more than crossing a border and being automatically cued up for a piece a paper as you describe it. I know a little about how naturalization works in the U.S. when the rules are followed. I don't know how Canada does it, but Canada doesn't have a border problem either.
 

JohnLarue

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Jan 19, 2005
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I never said citizenship should be excluded to a birth right. I stated "I view citizenship as a whole lot more than just a piece of paper in the end." Common definitions discuss rights and responsibilities. Without getting all law and order about it, responsibilities would include following the processes set forth by the country you want to make your new home.

In the end, naturalization should involve more than crossing a border and being automatically cued up for a piece a paper as you describe it. I know a little about how naturalization works in the U.S. when the rules are followed. I don't know how Canada does it, but Canada doesn't have a border problem either.
I am assuming you are not a Canadian
Canada does have a boarder problem
Justin Trudeau declared Canada as ''welcoming'' and illegal immigrants have been walking into our country at an alarming rate ever since
Many claim to be refugees and are put up in hotels, and given $ for food / clothing all at the tax payers expense
Trumps victory will drive a huge wave of illegal immigrants to cross into Canada

FYI : Most Canadians are generally compassionate and charitable, but this has become abusive of the immigration system.
Immigration (legal / illegal) has accelerate the population growth rate so quickly that housing prices skyrocketed to silly unaffordable levels and strained our tax payer funded health care system

Justin Trudeau is irresponsible, an ideologue and just plain stupid
Ready, shoot, aim has been his policy development procedure
He has cemented his legacy as Canadas worst Prime Minister and that is now a non-partisan view.
If a bookie offered me 100 to 1 odds on his re-election, i would not risk the one dollar
 
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WyattEarp

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May 17, 2017
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and if you do not stay in the good graces of the CCP , you disappear
Capitalism is so much easier when you can eliminate the domestic competition

how anyone can deem this a success is bewildering
There are a few members (very few) who are sympathetic of (or let's say charitable to) China. Some will disappointingly deny Hong Kong citizens (and perhaps even Taiwan) agency. This all goes through some progressive ideological mish-mash where the United States represents the Right and a lot of what is bad in the world. Countervailing forces are too be regarded and not judged.

In this morality play in their minds, China was a victim and is now emerging to challenge American and Western hegemony around the world. The reality is China is still a developing country that has achieved a mid-level standard of living for its populace. It's sheer size allows it to project power on the world stage and intimidate its neighbors.

China resembles the Soviet Union more than many would want to admit. China's ability to graft market capitalism with a heavy government hand on to its autocratic governance has allowed it to go from being poor to an industrialized nation in one generation. This development path is actually not unique to China. What makes China different is its sheer size.

The next question is can China and its shaky economy persevere through the next step commonly called the middle income trap. Demographic headwinds caused by the CCP's one child policy will make the challenge greater. The easiest growth is now behind China.

 
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SchlongConery

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Jan 28, 2013
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I think its because the USA is the worlds most powerful country and our neighbor to the south. The dont care about canada because we are perceived as a weak country

I doubt it. I think it is more of a vicarious symbolic representation of their political views. Or in the case of Trump... just plain Cult Worshippers.
 
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Shaquille Oatmeal

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Jun 2, 2023
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I never said citizenship should be excluded to a birth right. I stated "I view citizenship as a whole lot more than just a piece of paper in the end." Common definitions discuss rights and responsibilities. Without getting all law and order about it, responsibilities would include following the processes set forth by the country you want to make your new home.

In the end, naturalization should involve more than crossing a border and being automatically cued up for a piece a paper as you describe it. I know a little about how naturalization works in the U.S. when the rules are followed. I don't know how Canada does it, but Canada doesn't have a border problem either.
Naturalization should only involve fulfilment of legal requirements which is the bucket all of what you said falls in.
Which is why I recommended a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants who have been here for many years with ties to the land.
As far as the immigrant is concerned citizenship is indeed a passport.
Which is a piece of paper.
 

WyattEarp

Well-known member
May 17, 2017
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I doubt it. I think it is more of a vicarious symbolic representation of their political views. Or in the case of Trump... just plain Cult Worshippers.
You might be making more of it than is really there. I remember Reagan was a popular with many Canadians. Then of course there were liberal Canadians that cursed him.

Canada's interest in U.S. politics would seem to have a lot to do with 90% of Canadians living near the U.S. border. Of course, the inverse isn't even close to being true. I don't know how Canadian television is structured, but I was under the impression most Canadians can watch American news. Other than on-line sources, I have no access to Canadian news.
 
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WyattEarp

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May 17, 2017
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Naturalization should only involve fulfilment of legal requirements which is the bucket all of what you said falls in.
As far as the immigrant is concerned citizenship is indeed a passport.
Which is a piece of paper.
Yes, you are correct a passport is a piece of paper. It's laminated of course. My driver's license which I also use for identification is a plastic card.

I'm glad we could clarify the materials used to produce various forms of identification.
 

drewstar

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Dec 22, 2009
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There are a few members (very few) who are sympathetic (or let's say charitable) of China. Some will disappointingly deny Hong Kong citizens (and perhaps even Taiwan) agency. This all goes through some progressive ideological mish-mash where the United States represents the Right and a lot of what is bad in the world. Countervailing forces are too be regarded and not judged.

In this morality play in their minds, China was a victim and is now emerging to challenge American and Western hegemony around the world. The reality is China is still a developing country that has achieved a mid-level standard of living for its populace. It's sheer size allows it to project power on the world stage and intimidate its neighbors.

China resembles the Soviet Union more than many would want to admit. China's ability to graft market capitalism with a heavy government hand on to its autocratic governance has allowed it to go from being poor to an industrialized nation in one generation. This development path is actually not unique to China. What makes China different is its sheer size.

The next question is can China and its shaky economy persevere through the next step commonly called the middle income trap. Demographic headwinds caused by the CCP's one child policy will make the challenge greater. The easiest growth is now behind China.

Theres a lot of misconception with China in the west.

As a native Hong Konger, China is most certainly not a developing nation. The infrastructure there absolutely crushes what we have in North America and Europe. The one child policy is also no longer enforced, most in the west are unaware of this.

While it is true that you cannot criticize the govt in China and they have the power to enforce policies as they see fit that even I would disagree with such as their Covid response, there are many social constructs there that I would argue are far superior to western countries. It is natural for America to feel threatened by China hence why they back Taiwan for example. The Americans know what they are doing.

US increased their interest rates in an attempt to screw over China this year, even at the expense of their own ppl. For lack of a better term, US needs China needs more than China needs them with trading as an example. This is why the anti-China narratives are shown time and time again. Look at the olympics - the doping allegations are peak hypocrisy when the stats debunk their narrative and many infamous Americans like Lance Armstrong and Marion Jones were guilty for doping among others.
 
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