Israel at war

[GerryB]

See above. This article and its writer have no credibility. Its one guy maintaining a website with a few articles. None of the contributors are credentialed. Credentials are important.

The KGB's Middle East Files: Palestinians in the service of Mother Russia

Secret KGB documents reveal just how deeply involved the Soviet Union was in the spilling of Israeli blood. The Russian spy agency provided Palestinian terror organizations with funds, training and arms, running agents like 'Krotov' - aka Mahmoud Abbas, 'Aref' - or Yasser Arafat, and...

www.ynetnews.com

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Involvement of KGB in the Middle East and with all possible liberation movements as a tool to work against the West is a known fact.

Does not take away from the fact that the Palestinians want it. You could similarly discredit Israeli identity by saying it all started only in the 20th century as a European project. Does not take away from the fact that Israelis want it. These types of reasonings dont reflect the reality of today.

 

[mitchell76]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1843358338798825519

WATCH: Speaking at a rally to honor the victims of October 7th today,
@JDVance
said, “There are literal pro-Hamas protesters across the country calling for a ceasefire... I have a different message: The only way this war is going to end is when Hamas gives up its arms, stops fighting, and lets the hostages come home."

 

[GerryB]

If you don't want Palestinians to resist the illegal occupation, end the occupation.

Indeed, there are no hostages in Lebanon. Why would Israel attack Lebanon ? Quite a puzzling dilemma

 

[Leimonis]

Does not take away from the fact that the Palestinians want it. You could similarly discredit Israeli identity by saying it all started only in the 20th century as a European project. Does not take away from the fact that Israelis want it. These types of reasonings dont reflect the reality of today.

The reality is that Jews want to stay and Palis want them gone from the river to the sea. Hasn’t changed since before 1947 except back then Palis were called Arabs.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

The reality is that Jews want to stay and Palis want them gone. Hasn’t changed since before 1947 except then Palis were called Arabs.

Debatable. Israelis ethnically cleansed Israel of Palestinians during the war in 48'. So one party is actually guilty and the other guilty of a thought crime, if true. These speculations will not bring peace.

 

[Leimonis]

This is a conspiracy theory.

Nope it’s a fact. Even if it’s inconvenient to you.

in 1969, Yasser Arafat became a chairman of the PLO. Consequently, diplomatic connections with sufficient political reach were instituted. After that, it became clear in the West that Arafat accounted for an essential undercover operative for the KGBfor years to come.[6][7]

By the 1970s, with the loss of Soviet influence in Egypt, the Soviet Union sought better relations with Palestinian militants, and Soviet arms and training were provided to militant groups.

The KGB was responsible for arming and training most of the militant groups. The KGBdecided which groups should receive the money and weapons. By 1972, the Soviets had declared the Palestinian movement the vanguard of the Arab liberation movement.[8] In the summer of 1974, a PLO embassy was opened in Moscow.[9] During this time Yasser Arafat had addressed the United Nations and soon the PLO was granted observer status at the UN in 1974.

 

[Leimonis]

Debatable. Israelis ethnically cleansed Israel of Palestinians during the war in 48'. So one party is actually guilty and the other guilty of a thought crime, if true. These speculations will not bring peace.

Was October 7 a thought crime?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Nope it’s a fact. Even if it’s inconvenient to you.

in 1969, Yasser Arafat became a chairman of the PLO. Consequently, diplomatic connections with sufficient political reach were instituted. After that, it became clear in the West that Arafat accounted for an essential undercover operative for the KGBfor years to come.[6][7]

By the 1970s, with the loss of Soviet influence in Egypt, the Soviet Union sought better relations with Palestinian militants, and Soviet arms and training were provided to militant groups.

The KGB was responsible for arming and training most of the militant groups. The KGBdecided which groups should receive the money and weapons. By 1972, the Soviets had declared the Palestinian movement the vanguard of the Arab liberation movement.[8] In the summer of 1974, a PLO embassy was opened in Moscow.[9] During this time Yasser Arafat had addressed the United Nations and soon the PLO was granted observer status at the UN in 1974.

So the KGB gave money and trained these militant groups? They dont seem to have been responsible for the creation of the Palestinian identity as someone else alluded. The identity has existed for a while.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Was October 7 a thought crime?

It was not an ethnic cleansing which is what I thought you alluded to when you said the Palis want the Jews gone.

 

[Leimonis]

It was not an ethnic cleansing which is what I thought you alluded to when you said the Palis want the Jews gone.

So how would you qualify it? A friendly neighborly prank?

 

[Klatuu]

Was October 7 a thought crime?

Poorly educated

 

[Leimonis]

So the KGB gave money and trained these militant groups? They dont seem to have been responsible for the creation of the Palestinian identity as someone else alluded. The identity has existed for a while.

When has that identity begun? In Soviet UN speeches around 1947 two parties are called Jews and arabs. Palestinians would have meant both of those.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

So how would you qualify it? A friendly neighborly prank?

A terrorist attack.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

When has that identity begun? In Soviet UN speeches around 1947 two parties are called Jews and arabs. Palestinians would have meant both of those.

Atleast as early as 1920 when the entire region was called Mandatory Palestine.

Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The first written records referring to Palestine emerged in the 12th-century BCE Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt, which used the term Peleset for a neighboring people or land.

Palestine (region) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Leimonis]

Atleast as early as 1920 when the entire region was called Mandatory Palestine.

Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The first written records referring to Palestine emerged in the 12th-century BCE Twentieth Dynasty of Egypt, which used the term Peleset for a neighboring people or land.

Palestine (region) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That’s meaningless because it includes Jews and arabs and christians who lived in Levant.
The issue is when Palestinian arabs become different from other arabs?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

The issue is when Palestinian arabs become different from other arabs?

Maybe we can agree on 1964 when the PLO was formed? Which makes for atleast 3 generations of Palestinians. We can also agree that it exists today in a very real sense?

 

[Leimonis]

Maybe we can agree on 1964 when the PLO was formed? Which makes for atleast 3 generations of Palestinians. We can also agree that it exists today in a very real sense?

That sounds about right

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

That sounds about right

A point to note, which you said in your prior post as well is that the Palestinian tag is for Jews, Christians and Muslims who lived in the region. But not for the Jewish immigrants from Europe. So if you were to accept a new Israeli identity, or apply the Palestinian identity to all Jews in present day Israel, then the issue with Palestinian identity being new does not arise.

 

[Leimonis]

A point to note, which you said in your prior post as well is that the Palestinian tag is for Jews, Christians and Muslims who lived in the region. But not for the Jewish immigrants from Europe. So if you were to accept a new Israeli identity, or apply the Palestinian identity to all Jews in present day Israel, then the issue with Palestinian identity being new does not arise.

I think on the grand scheme of things it don’t really matter at this point who is more indigenous and whose temples are more ancient.

Once again, you simply have millions of jews who don’t want to leave and millions of Palestinians and other various arabs who want them to be gone from the river to the sea.

All the talk about who came from Poland or who doesn’t have their own language or fairytales or culture is, if not hate speech, at least not helping bringing peace.