How exactly is Trump going to make it worse than it already is? Israel has no restraints.
You think this is Israel with no restraints?
Dear god.
And where did you figure that I thought that the US has no power to affect the Israel situation?
Because you just said that "Degree of support, etc are either inconsequential and minor, or are purely rhetoric and talking points that do not result in changes to the status quo that is very much needed."
In other words, there is nothing that can be done.
My criticism is exactly that. That while the US is in the unique position to influence how things unfold in Israel/Palestine, and perhaps is the only country that can influence how things unfold in Israel/Palestine, they are doing absolutely nothing substantial to help the Palestinian cause.
Then you should be EXTREMELY interested in every shift in degree of support, since it has such an important impact.
The differences between Trump and Biden, are either in rhetoric or in something as minor as humanitarian aid or stopping delivery of some bombs under a very narrow criteria, while vetoing everything in the UN and providing support and protection for Israel. These look like differences but are merely talking points. They have absolutely no tangible impact. Heck even a ceasefire is not able to be achieved.
Humanitarian aid is minor now?
Nothing has tangible impact?
Interesting how the people on the ground there seem to disagree with you so completely.
Be it Trump or Biden, the following 2 statements will be true:
a) Israel will receive and continue to receive BILLIONS in military aid.
b) The US will always protect Israel at the UN and the international stage, thereby enabling their brutalization of the Palestinians.
So therefore no one should be voting between Biden or Trump based on Gaza.
Got it.
To me, it is a difference, if Biden would vote AGAINST Israel at the UN. Or had Biden not abstained from recognizing Palestinian statehood. Or had Biden not vetoed full membership for Palestine. Would Trump have done anything different?
On those two specific votes?
No.
Which, if you think those the only two things that have any impact on Gaza, means you shouldn't let Gaza influence your vote between Trump or Biden in any way.
You are flouting some inconsequential, lip service and gestures as "differences in policy". It means nothing!
I get it!
You think there is no reason to use the Gaza situation to choose between Trump and Biden!
Anyone doing so is a fool!
You've made your point.
No it wouldn't. A voter votes per their conscience.
Idiot voters vote their conscience in a plurality system.
That's one of those politically naive myths told to voters so that they don't exercise power efficiently.
It's one of the worst things you can do since it is more likely to actively hurt your cause than help it.
They do not vote, to elect a guy, that is the lesser of two evils, when that guy is going to do nothing for the issue that you hold as most important.
What an amazingly self-defeating way to think about elections.
Now others, for whom this is not such a big issue may take the approach you are suggesting, but again, they are still voting their conscience. Everybody is always voting their conscience.
Oh.
You mean "voting their conscience" to mean "voting to get the best result they can"!
Then you agree with me about voting and we are back to "nothing I do will change this outcome I find important, so I should vote on other criteria".
Again, a strong argument that no one should vote on the Israel/Palestine issue at all.
Yes. And the effect is that BOTH Trump and Biden, LOST a vote. I don't know why you have a problem admitting that.
Because as long as you fail to understand math, I have to point out what is actually going on.
This is your characterization. Not the objective truth.
It is true, sorry.
If the statement "I am so anti-Biden, that I am OK with Trump winning" is true of a 3rd party vote, then so is the statement "I am so anti-Trump that I am OK with Biden winning", because that is what is objectively happening. Both Trump and Biden are losing a vote helping the other.
Yes, you've established you don't understand how the system works.
You don't need to dig your hole deeper.
Biden is not entitled a vote by this voter who voted third party.
Of course not.
Because a third party vote, needs to be seen objectively, because there IS a candidate expressing political opinions and not as a spiteful fallback option exercised by the voter.
Wait, you think a vote is "an expression of your opinions"?
Oh dear.
I mean if you could make the argument that the voter would have voted for Biden, if not for the Israel Palestine issue, then you could make the same argument that a Biden voter would have voted for Trump if not for Trump's positions on race, immigration or what have you. You could pretty much make that argument about any candidate. The truth is that political positions of the candidate, sway votes. You could agree to varying degrees with different candidates, but there are certain issues that will always sway the voter more than the others, one way or another.
Of course the position of candidates sways votes and things sway the voter more than others.
That's the whole point of what we are discussing.
This is like saying my vote for Mitzie Hunter in the mayor election, is anti-Chow, but pro-Saunders. No, it is anti-Chow, anti-Saunders, anti-anybodyelsethatran, but pro-Hunter.
Oh, you REALLY don't understand how the plurality system works at all!
Which between Chow and Bailão did you prefer?
Man, I
am going to have to do this "voting systems education series", aren't I?
sigh
