Sure, blame Bieber for this.
Its as good as any other story you've pushed here.
SCREAMS BEFORE SILENCE
- Thread starter latinboy
- Start date
Its as good as any other story you've pushed here.
What a pathetic attempt to invert reality. i don't speak for anyone but myself but unlike you, I do respect Palestinians enough to listen to what they have to say.
How do you justify claiming to support Palestinian self determination while demanding they become Israelis even though only 5% of them want that? Don't bother answering; it's clear that you think them beneath you and only use them as a tool to promote your obsessive hatred.
Are you pretending that our entire system isn't based on the colonial system forced on our indigenous people or that they aren't still oppressed and still being dispossessed? Of course you are because you aren't willing to examine the systemic oppression you are a part of, no different than your attempts to whitewash Modi's use of nationalism and your idolization of a Nazi SS commander.
So why did you claim they did?
I know you don't care about Palestinians but does it occur to you that either a One or Two State peace requires Palestinians to agree to it? Sadly 75% of Palestinians only want a Palestinian state without Jews according to the polling I posted.
Right. Their leaders rejected any kind of peaceful compromise and most of them still do.
Systemic oppression exists everywhere. It is not unique to colonial entities. What is important is to examine which of these colonial entities is genociding indigeneous people. Only one is. That is Israel.
And I have not whitewashed Modi's use of nationalism because I was talking to some idiot pushing Hindutva in the Israel thread just the other day and telling him that Hindu Nationalism is backward bullshit. The same way I consider Zionism to be backward bullshit.
And I idolize a Nazi SS commander? Nice try. I think you are referring to Bose. Bose operated on the principle that an enemy of an enemy is a friend and hence he formed the Indian Legion. However, those guys never even got to fight or pick up arms. Bose himself was a strong supporter of Jewish people and a national hero. So nice try again to justify genocide and racism by Zionists by trying to rely on false equivalency.
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The misunderstood Netaji: Subhas Chandra Bose hated Nazis, but he loved India’s Independence more
The standard Western and elitist Indian take on Subhas Chandra Bose’s outreach to Nazi Germany doesn’t take the idea of ‘national interest first’ into consideration
www.firstpost.com
On a personal level, Bose was as humane as any other Cambridge alumni like him. Between 1933 and 1939, for example, he had friends like Kitty and Alex, a Jewish couple in Berlin. After being advised by Bose, the couple went to the US, and from her Massachusetts home in 1965 Kitty Kurti wrote her tribute for Bose in a book titled Subhas Chandra Bose as I Knew Him. She wrote that Bose did not attempt to hide from her his deep contempt for the Nazis. In the same vein, he cited India’s exploitation by British imperialism and explained why he had to do business with the Nazis. “It is dreadful but it must be done. India must gain her independence, cost what it may.”
Because they do. They want a one state solution and EQUAL rights. But not as part of Israel the JEWISH state. But as part of a secular, democratic state that happens to be called "Israel".
75% of Palestinians dont agree to it, because a two state solution proposed by Israel demands that they accept the status quo. There is no accepting the status quo for a 2 state solution. 1967 borders or none. If it is a one state solution as I mentioned it has to be in a secular, democratic Israel. Not a "JEWISH" Israel. Why would they want to become 2nd class citizens? So on both counts they are right to reject.
For them to accept a 2 state solution - Israel needs to give up its settlements and go back to the 1967 borders. For them to accept a 1 state solution, they need to give up their Jewish identity. THEN the Palestinians will accept it. They wont accept any solution that demands they either be 2nd class citizens or surrender lands that belong to them to Israel.
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So you back BDS, a ceasefire, the end of the occupation and the end of apartheid?
Palestinians rejected the Brits giving half of Palestine to a foreign colonial movement that was intent on taking all of Palestine, true.
Why would you be surprised about that and why would you think they should have been happy?
Sorry pal but your stated belief was the "colonial" nature of Israel means it is illegitimate and that Jews being there is illegitimate. At the same time, you are a settler in Canada like most of us here and refuse to accept that \Indigenous groups are STILL having land taken from them and STILL being subjected to far below standard living conditions.
All you are doing is showing an complete inability to admit the issues your own presence here causes.
So why have you repeatedly tried to justify it? It must be embarrassing that you have freely called anyone who supports a Sikh state as terrorists but have a completely opposite view when it comes to people wanting a Palestinian state.
And Bose was a commander in the Waffen SS and his troops swore loyalty to Hitler.
Um, you're being stupid. Do you think they need you to tell them what they want?
5% want a "One-State Solution for Two Peoples".
There is no ambiguity.
I back a ceasefire. Hamas doesn't and neither do you.
And I respect people enough to listen to what they say. Unlike you and K, I don't pretend to speak for them and I'm not afraid to agree or criticize them when appropriate.
A million Ottoman Jews and several hundred thousand Jewish immigrants.
Palestinian leaders chose war.
p.s. Seems the Brits did far worse here but you don't give a shit.
So you back the Canadian solution?
Giving the indigenous full human rights, including the vote?
Zionism is done.
Maybe its just time to give Palestine back to Palestinians.
Hamas backs a ceasefire, its Israel that refuses to send the UN a letter saying they will support the US resolution.
If you really respected Palestinians and listened to them you would have argued for the end of the occupation decades ago.
Instead you claimed 'the settlements aren't the problem'.
Zionists are the problem and they've always been the problem.
No. I said Israel, Canada and the US are all settler colonial states but only Israel was formed illegitimately. Canada and the US were formed long after people settled there and people did not settle there with the intent of forming a state.
Israel on the other hand was settled with the intent of taking land that was someone else's to violently form a state. Hence why it is illegitimate. Infact if the Arabs had welcomed Jews with open arms and told them that they could form a state, it would have STILL resulted in violence and ethnic cleansing.
Remember the goal is to not just to form Israel, but form Israel as a JEWISH state. Therefore even welcoming Arabs would have been incompatible as equal citizens within a Zionist entity. This is what makes Israel's formation illegitimate.
And I am not a settler. I am an immigrant. I used immigration laws to immigrate here. The Jews that settled before 1948, simply settled there.
And in no way is Canada's treatment of its indigeneous people, comparable in any way to how Israel treats its indigeneous people. Canada has long established a "one state" solution and given citizenship to indigeneous people and even acknowledges and apologizes and takes remedial steps (however ineffective it may be), to right past wrongs. Israel on the other hand, genocides its indigeneous people and subjects them to apartheid.
Quote me where I justified Hindu Nationalism. I challenge you. Yes someone, especially foreign citizens, who do not have citizenship in India, and who engage in separatism against India, while living a foreign state, is a foreign state actor, and it is a hostile act directed against India and therefore is a terrorist especially when they belong to groups that have actually KILLED 300 Canadians. I wouldn't even say this if the majority of Sikhs support this movement. But the majority of Sikhs OPPOSE Khalistan. So Sikhs themselves will call Khalistanis terrorists.
And as I mentioned in my prior post, I will quote Bose again - “It is dreadful but it must be done. India must gain her independence, cost what it may.”
No, they don't need YOU selectively cherry picking and misinterpreting their preferences while conveniently trying to ignore the WHY behind their choices. You aren't as glib as you think you are.
So now you think Israel is like Canada was 200 years ago and that's your argument?
What next, you gonna argue that since the US used slavery then its ok if zionists enact slavery too?
That's just so messed up.
You need to bring your morals and values into this century.
You should try thinking instead of just spamming tweets.
Under the Ottomans, Jerusalem and Hebron had significant indigenous Jewish communities.
And when the Ottoman Empire broke up, each ethnic group (except the Kurds) got a piece of it. Why do you think the million Ottoman Jews should be excluded?
And that is proof of your stupid double standard.
Canada and the US exist as they do because the Brits (and French and Spanish) decided they wanted the land. There was no European presence in the Americas and no history other than a few Norse expeditions. The entirety of the US and Canadian systems are the result of Europeans imposing their will by force and our 'legitimacy" is based solely on the fact we were strong enough to hold it and the modern system is still directly descended from the British form of government they imposed.
Israel has a Jewish history going back thousands of years and has always been the location of Judaism's holiest sites. More importantly, there have always been Jews there. The numbers have varied over time as invaders and colonizers like the Romans, Islamic Empires, and Crusader states imposed exiles, repression, or periods of pluralism. It's also worth noting that each of those groups and the Ottomans were just as imperial and colonizers as Industrial era Europeans.
Pre-zionism, Ottoman censuses show Jews being either the largest or one of the largest ethnicities in Jerusalem and showed hundreds of thousands of Jews elsewhere in their empire. When the Ottoman Empire collapsed, various ethnic groups ended up with their own states, often involving population transfers as ethnicities collected together. Examples include Greece, Bosnia, Egypt, Libya, Armenia, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen, and Iraq.
And Israel was formed by the UN; there is nothing else that gives a state such legitimacy in the modern world. And sorry but the fact that Israel did openly and freely give citizenship to every Arab who chose to stay inside Israel proves your claims wrong.
As for status, you are just as much as a settler as the rest of us. None of us were alive when the Brits/French took Canada but we do benefit from the theft and genocide that occurred and we do sit by as people like Doug Ford continue to try and take land from them. And laughable that you claim being an immigrant (without permission of the indigenous) makes you exempt from the ongoing persecution of Canada's indigenous while at the same time, condemning immigrants to Israel as illegitimate based solely on your idiotic perception Israel (but not Canada) being illegitimate.
Wow you're being disingenuous. I can show you many, many polls conducted BY Palestinians and there is not a single one that says the majority want an egalitarian One State peace where Jews and Palestinians have equal rights. Depending on time and polling agency, the support for a One State peace in the past decade has been between single digits and 30% with support for a Two State peace between 35 and 55% (Gazans in March had 62% support).
Your claims of "cherry picking" are simply your desperate attempt to justify your belief that Palestinians need to do what you want.
You can present a 100 studies but you'd still be cherry picking and misinterpreting their preferences while conveniently trying to ignore the WHY behind their choices. If Palestinians are refusing both a 1 state or a 2 state solution, they are doing so because they dont trust their genociders. Can you blame them? No. But you do. You genocide them and then hold THEM responsible for refusing to trust you. That is like blaming Jews for not trusting the Nazis. No. Israel is solely to be blamed for this. If you want Palestinians to accept anything, it will first involve, Israel GIVING UP something. And that something has to be either land, or their JEWISH identity.
Although Canada and the US are settler colonial states much like Israel, they weren't formed based on claims of people from Europe being entitled to the land. They were formed as a natural consequence of colonialism and initially they were oppressive states indeed. However, with time, this has changed. The only place where it has not changed is in Israel.
Israel's Jewish history is irrelevant because Israel is the birthplace of all 3 semitic religions. All 3 religions therefore can claim Israel to be their ancestral lands. All of this is moot anyway as regardless of Judaism's history in the land, no European Jewish person, or even an Arab Jewish person, apart from the minority who lived there in the 20th century, have any claim to the land. They were not there for 1000s of years. They lost the claim to the land.
And Israel was not formed by the UN. The UN does not have the authority to form countries or enforce borders. The UN recommended a partition by adopting a resolution at the UNGA. The Israeli settler colonialists then just took over the land and declared independence. Israel did not freely give citizenship to Arabs. They first ethnically cleansed them as much as possible and gave citizenship to the remaining minority. As I said, even if Arabs had welcomed them with open arms, Zionisms goals of establishing a JEWISH state, is incompatible with peace. It would have still resulted in violence.
And no, it is moronic to call me a settler. Settlers settle in a land without immigration laws, much like the European Jews did before 1948. Immigrants like me, apply for immigration in an established state, via legal processes.
Canada is not persecuting indigeneous people currently. Systemic racism exists. But that is not state sponsored apartheid, terrorism, and genocide, like Israel visits upon the Palestinians. Its idiotic to even compare a country like Canada that takes truth and reconciliation seriously with Israel that is extremely vociferous and hateful about the way they talk about Palestinians and call for their genocide.
Check out Palestine before zionists took over, if you're interested in the history.
It was a diverse and safe.
