Israel at war

Hunter96

Well-known member
Jul 16, 2023
420
287
63
It really doesn't matter any more what the Palestinian want that the reality …. They Palestinians can simply assist in getting any hostages still held by Hamas freed, and end the Gaza War, or they can die at about a 1000 to 1 rate. That is the reality no matter what anyone thinks about it. The world, including the Arab world, has shown that they are not going to step in and stop it. Release the maybe 140 or so, or die at a rate of 1000+ .


FYI , The ratio of hostage free to Hamas killed to innocent people killed, something like 1 to 1 to 1000?
Well there would not be any stoping and they actually “don’t” wany this to end.
If I really get into numbers aka statistics. I would be banned. I don’t want to do that.
Why civilian population is not supporting ops against terrorists? Why women and kids are being used as shield? But nah!
All this teeter pics and arguments are “against” survival. I remember in my school days, it always matters who slapped first. Once you slapped and than apologies or bring buddies to say “ hey it was a childish thing, pls ignore” and the person, who got slapped, was like. Thinking like what the duck ? I like proactive things.
 

Hunter96

Well-known member
Jul 16, 2023
420
287
63
Bruh, you been here just over a year and already have over 9000 post? 🤷‍♂️
It’s an echo chamber of left aka me right, me saying truth, me knows everything on earth and me knows everything but myself. But I will counter anything what you say coz you don’t thing they way I think. If tomorrow you say I breath oxygen, left will say yeah coz you have noseyrills what you gonna do about that? Hah?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
88,810
21,062
113
Not in the way you mean, though.
No.
Unless you are talking about overthrowing the system and violently replacing democracy or the government, this is just you misunderstanding voting.
No.
My view is democracy is important and should be nurtured.
It is also that if you want to fix the deeply imperfect voting system, then you need to understand what it does.
How is voting for someone aiding genocide 'fixing the system' or 'nurturing democracy'?
The system is clearly fucked if your choice is between a rapist and convicted felon who attempted a coup and someone aiding genocide.

Even if that were true, it would be entirely irrelevant to the argument I'm making about what the voting system does and how it works.
No.
If this were an election between Biden and some more traditional republican you wouldn't be repeatedly arguing that not voting for rump will bring about the end of democracy and even more genocide.

I have never said this.
In fact, I am in favor of the protests and think that kind of pressure is exactly what is needed to change his mind.
Same way the protests and losing the election changed the dems after Vietnam.
Is "this is a Humphrey moment" the new talking point!?
People are doubling down on that?
Have you at least moved on from saying that votes are owed to Biden and refusing to vote for him is 'punishing' him just for aiding genocide?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kautilya and Klatuu

Klatuu

Well-known member
Dec 31, 2022
5,011
2,911
113
It really doesn't matter any more what the Palestinian want that the reality …. They Palestinians can simply assist in getting any hostages still held by Hamas freed, and end the Gaza War, or they can die at about a 1000 to 1 rate. That is the reality no matter what anyone thinks about it. The world, including the Arab world, has shown that they are not going to step in and stop it. Release the maybe 140 or so, or die at a rate of 1000+ .


FYI , The ratio of hostage free to Hamas killed to innocent people killed, something like 1 to 1 to 1000?
Racist, Poor education, Wife beater strategy
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
31,834
2,836
113
Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com
So a propagandist who works for "Palestine chronicle" a pro Hamas propaganda outlet (one this is often cited by a terbite here who openly supports terrorists and terrorism against Jews and israelis) was allegedly involved in holding hostages

 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
88,810
21,062
113
  • Like
Reactions: Klatuu

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
74,638
81,239
113

"They've taken everything from me!"

Gazan woman tells heartbreaking account of how Israeli forces raided her house and stole her family's last remaining hostages.

GPlnnq2XEAA5jmy.jpeg
 
  • Haha
Reactions: whynot888

Klatuu

Well-known member
Dec 31, 2022
5,011
2,911
113
Israel could have had all the hostages returned 8 months ago but even today they choose to kill more instead.
They used aid trucks, which is like the accusation that Hamas was using hospitals.
They used US and UK help, which actively includes them in genocide.
And they deliberately killed civilians.

Israel wants to turn the entire world into a police state to defend their genocide now.

And most of the hostages would have returned without massacring Palestinian civilians if it hadn’t vetoed its own peace plan last week. POS Nation is nothing more than a homicidal and racist shamble.
.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
31,866
58,251
113
That is what you are doing, you are making the voter choose only between 2 choices, when in fact they have more than one, because only one of those 2 choices are likely to get elected.
Voting is about influencing who gets in power.
When there are only two results possible, everything you do is a choice about which of those outcomes you prefer.
That it might also provide some additional information is an add on effect. (And, again, one that is handled badly by plurality voting.)
There are LOTS of reasons I harp on about better voting systems and one is that I want people to have more meaningful choices.

Of course that is what you do. You vote per your conscience. If your conscience suggests that you do not want Trump to win, and if that is the priority for you, then you vote for whoever you think has the best chance of beating Trump. If your conscience suggests that you vote for Cornell West because the Israel Palestine issue is big for you, you vote for him, whether or not he wins.
This is an incredibly bad way to look at voting in a system where doing so results in worse outcomes.
Voting is a method to determine government, not a plebiscite about the sentiment of the people.
That people still believe that voting is supposed to be about your personal feelings about your vote is a pernicious myth and the quicker people can be disabused of this notion the better.

By that definition my choice to vote for say Cornell West or another independent, hurts Trump too. So your accusation that it helps Trump falls flat right there.
Not at all.
It hurts whoever of the two you would vote for if forced to choose.
Now, if what you are saying is that in a normal situation between Trump and Biden, you would choose Trump then yes, your choice to vote for West hurts Trump.

But the real issue isn't "who does it hurt". It is "which outcome do you prefer"?
If your preferred outcome is Trump over Biden, then voting for West hurts Trump. If your preferred outcome is Biden over Trump, then voting for West hurts Biden.
The important part is that voting for West hurts you because it makes your preferred outcome less likely.

Both choices - Trump and Biden are detrimental for this particular issue of Palestine. Say I was a voter, I may choose Cornell West or some other to ensure my vote does not go to either of the two that I dont like. If Cornell West or other independent candidates did not exist as a choice, I may choose to not vote at all. It just means you voted per your beliefs.
And produce an outcome.
Now, if you truly believe there is absolutely no difference between Trump and Biden on Palestine, then your vote is rational.
If, however, you believe there is (even if both are bad), then you have made the situation worse because instead of putting the person in who gives you a result you prefer, you deprived them of your vote.

And that is, of course, an assumption that you have no preferences in any other way between the two people who might win.
If you have any other preferences between the two, then you have the same dilemma, even if you think they are exactly equal in all ways on the issue of Palestine.

You are being presumptuous about what is good for the voter. The voter is an individual and they will make their choices that they find beneficial for them.
EXACTLY!
As I said above. "Voting your conscience" is detrimental for you.
This is key to why plurality voting is so reviled.

The only benefit it gives is you being able to say "I voted my conscience" while it actively contributes to making the situation you had a conscience about worse.
(Now yes, there is an argument that it is a long-term strategy. Making the situation worse will cause enough people to suffer that eventually someone will do the right thing about it. I don't think that's a good argument, but it is at least one that doesn't pretend the system is something other than it is.)

That includes not voting for Biden or Trump, or even anyone at all. Or voting for an independent. What exact benefit would a pro-Palestinian person have in voting in Biden? None. Trump? None. So what do they do? They either choose to not vote at all, or vote for someone who speaks their mind. Its fair enough. So no, you are still wrong about this.
See above.
This is entirely the wrong way to think about voting, especially in a plurality winner system.

He literally said those sentences. Those were his words. He uttered those 3 sentences. Case closed.

I am interpreting nothing. I am repeating translation of 3 sentences that literally came out of his mouth, word for word.
That isn't case closed at all and you know it.
You are absolutely interpreting things.


He said "We will eliminate everything". What is in Gaza? People, infrastructure, animals. Everything is an all encompassing term. It proves genocidal intent without a shred of doubt. I am not even quoting his other pronouncements of Palestinians as "human animals", or Israel's president saying "there are no non-combatants in Gaza" etc., Just going off of his words alone is enough to show genocidal intent. As I said, if all they wanted was to take out Hamas, they could have just said so. Its not difficult. Hamas attacked them. They could have said "We will eliminate Hamas". But he did not. He chose to say "We will eliminate everything".

You are the one grasping at straws on this one. I am simply pointing out what Gallant very clearly said.

No, I'm not.
Look.
This is easy to settle.

Show the whole clip.

I think it is very likely he said something every bit as genocidal as you say.
But no one should take an edited clip on the internet without skepticism.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
31,866
58,251
113
If the majority of Americans choose to vote for Trump, why should we not find it amusing? They dont think they are suffering if they elect him so why should we care?.
Trump is likely to be elected without the majority of Americans voting for him, just like last time.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
31,866
58,251
113
Poor Val. He is watching in real time the actual reasons why Biden could very well lose the election to Trump, which is essentially why Hillary did.

And he is going to continue to gaslight with his elitist "I know better than you what's good so line up and vote what I say" because it's all he knows. He can't fathom another opinion.
Oh Butler.
You aren't silly enough to think this is how I would try to persuade voters do you?

This is TERB where none of you vote.

This is what happens when you piss people off enough. They will vote their conscious and will accept eorse results to hope for later better options. Val essentially wants people to stay in a bad abusive relationship because he thinks it's worse leaving.
LOL!
That's a new version of the "We just need to beat them until they accept my point of view" approach you prefer.
Nice.
 
Toronto Escorts