Leafs 2023-2024 Thread
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He is being singled out for the providing the worst effort on the team. Tavares got the big bucks because he was an established league superstar and a true leader who was worthy of wearing the C. He is/was never nowhere near the most talented player on the ice. But he works his ass off, sacrifices his body and leads by example. Clearly he is on the downside of his career and TBH, it was probably to be expected at his age but nobody ever criticizes his commitment.
Marner is in the absolute prime of his career and has no excuses for floating, especially in overtime of a game 7, no less. Tavares gets demoted to the 3rd line during the season, keeps his head down and mouth shut and continues to work as hard as he possibly can. Marner hears a negative comment on the bench, throws a hissy fit and throws his gloves as his supposed outrage and then still floats in overtime. He even got criticized (by Hrudey?) in the intermission for dipsie doodling around the net instead of taking the puck and driving to the net. In a way, Hrudey perfectly foretold the final outcome of the game. They usually ask who'll score the game winner but Hrudey picked the game loser instead.
Marner deserves every single bit of criticism he gets no matter how much more it may be than anyone else.
1) - “ Tavares got the big bucks because he was an established league superstar and a true leader who was worthy of wearing the C.”
One can use the same argument on why Marner got that big contract. I’d just like to ask, other than individual stats, exactly what has Taraves accomplished as far as team playoff success goes ? my answer is “ just as much as Marner has so both are below expectation in that regard; The Isles with him as captain had not had much playoff success.
2) - “Marner is in the absolute prime of his career and has no excuses for floating, especially in overtime of a game 7, no less”
On that ot goal Marner was indeed caught looking at puck carrier rather than where his check was, but id say it’s a stretch to say “ he was floating “; On a dump in your d man Rielly should not have been beaten by the forward so you can make the same accusation that he was “floating “ ; and as Hrudy pointed out, Samsonov had a great chance to break up that play by playing the puck, so he was also “floating “.
‘Yet you singled out “Marner” as “floating “;
3) “Tavares gets demoted to the 3rd line during the season, keeps his head down and mouth shut and continues to work as hard as he possibly can.”
There’s a main reason why a 11 million captain got demoted to the 3rd line and that is because he can no longer be counted on as a top line centre. He did what was expected of him and continued to play hard and I give him credit for that; but when you’re the captain and one of the highest paid player, giving 100% effort is not good enough and when the team fails, he deserves just as much criticism as anyone on the team.
Again I’m not here to defend Marner. He deserves his share of blames, but it’s unfair to make him the only reason to blame for the team‘s failure.
Playoff success is contingent on a team effort. Nobody works harder than Tavares. All he can do is lead by example.
Do you think that Marner worked as hard as Tavares?
The comment was made by others that it was Marner that was receiving too much blame and that Tavares deserves it as well. As such, I limited my comments to those two players. But we all know that hockey is one the ultimate team games.
Do you think that Marner worked as hard as Rielly?
So what can Tavares do other than give 100% effort. That is all that can be asked of any player regardless of their talent level. Tavares did and Marner didn't.
It is a given that with every single very long term contract the team will be greatly overpaying for the final number of years of those contracts. It always happens. (Ohtani won't be worth the money when he's in his late 30's.) Again, it's a team game and everybody makes mistakes, soft goals by Samsonov, dumb penalties by Domi and Bertuzzi, poor decisions by Keefe etc. Nobody is saying that it is ALL on Marner but, as it turns out, Marner made this particular mistake at the absolute worst time possible, when the absolute greatest commitment to effort was a demand and it was under the greatest spotlight, so it stands out more. And this was also after he was called out by Matthews earlier in the series in the glove throwing incident. He obviously did not get the message.
The others made errors of commission while giving their max effort while Marner's was an error of omission. He couldn't be bothered to max out his effort. In this case, IMO, his error was more egregious and more so because it was an error he was guilty of over and over (as pointed out by Kelly Hrudey). He was a poor teammate by not caring enough.
Toronto got $11M of effort out of Tavares but that was not the case with Marner and his $11M.
Im disappointed that you still do not acknowledge that Marner was not the ONLY player caught napping on that goal, Rielly and to a much larger degree Samsonov were also to blame. You emphasized that it was a “team game” when defending Tavares but you singled out Marner for that ot goal. How fair is that ? If you have doubt, I’d suggest you watch the replay of that ot goal again.
On the Bruins’ tying goal, Rielly was also on the ice and he made no effort to block that shot. I remember the year they lost a game 7 to Tampa, the Tampa’s defence was blocking shots from all over the defensive zone. How’s that forgiving 100% effort on Reilly’s part ?
My point is that there are always subjective views and it’s easy to accuse a lack of effort when a player underperforms and the team loses. Combined with our favouritism of certain players, it’s understandable that you would deflect and defend Tavares who I now get that is your favourite Leaf. Bottom line, both Marner and Tavares performed below expectations and the team lost. There should rightly be fingers pointing everywhere, but no one player should bear all the blames.
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Leafs had 13 players in plus territory and 6 players in the negative. Even Reaves was +1.
As per stats from tsn.ca
Even strength play was not where they lost the series.
They scored 1 PP goal. Many if not all the teams that advanced pumped in plenty of PP goals.
Going into the series it was crucial that Leafs be good on PP considering their PK was already known to be dreadful.
Domi by the way is not 5 mill. He is 3 mill cap hit and Klingberg is 4.15
As per stats from tsn.ca
Even strength play was not where they lost the series.
They scored 1 PP goal. Many if not all the teams that advanced pumped in plenty of PP goals.
Going into the series it was crucial that Leafs be good on PP considering their PK was already known to be dreadful.
Domi by the way is not 5 mill. He is 3 mill cap hit and Klingberg is 4.15
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I always said the Leafs aren't going to win the series unless they get PP going. In game 7 they got 1 PP, I screamed at the TV that have to score here or else they aren't going to win game 7.
The problem is that Marner has underperformed in every playoff series that the Leafs have participated in, in the last 7 years!!
I wouldn't say he has underperformed in every playoff series.
Look at his stats. He had 9 pts in 7 games in his 2nd year. On his entry level contract. That is great value.
He also had lots of points when Leafs beat TB and the year prior he had 8 pts in 7 games.
Again this is a subjective view and the stats would indicate otherwise .
Marner 57 games 50 points
matthews 55. 48
Nylander. 54. 43
Tavares. 38. 24
At least he’s not the worse AMOUNG the core 4.
For those who once thought Nylander was not a playoff performer and perhaps still do let's have a look at his playoff stats. His first 3 seasons were on an entry level contract. His last 5 playoffs on his 6.962 mill cap hit stands at 17 goals, 32 pts in 34 games. That is a 41 goal pace. Clearly great value for an under 7 mill cap hit.
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And John Klingberg has the same stat line. Wonder why?
Shanny's hiring was Ken Dryden all over again. How he's lasted thing long is beyond anyone's mental capabilities.
