Just to follow up since as the community notes points out, that tweet is misleading, this is what was actually agreed to.
Israel at war
- Thread starter Butler1000
- Start date
Oh yeah…things are going well for the New South Africa
Great news. A victory for the cause of universal human rights. Full transparency
Like I said earlier, how you view this may vary depending on what you think the point of the protests were.
Transparency on investments and an agreement to publish a report on what can or can't be done to change those investments in winter 2025 may not be seen by some as a victory.
Ok, you have declared Palestinians are allowed full human rights.
The right to self determination
The right to self defence
The right of return
Now you need to explain why you back
The right to self defence doesn't include any rights to attack civilians, but it does include the right to attack IDF. So your Oct 7 count has to remove all IDF killed on that day as within Palestinian rights. That brings the total down to about 600 civilians and we still don't know how many were killed by Israel's Hannibal Doctrine, likely about half.
Israel has no right to occupy Palestine.
Israel has no right to rule through apartheid.
Israel has no right to colonize Palestine through 'settlements'.
All of those are war crimes.
Israel is also legally bound to be responsible for the welfare of all those they occupy, including Hamas and all Palestinians in Gaza.
But it sounds like you are suggesting they negotiate for permanent misery instead of perpetual.
In 2007 Israeli PM Olmert issued this warning:
In an interview with the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz, Ehud Olmert said Israel was "finished" if it forced the Palestinians into a struggle for equal rights.If the two-state solution collapsed, he said, Israel would "face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights, and as soon as that happens, the state of Israel is finished". Israel's supporters abroad would quickly turn against such a state, he said."The Jewish organisations, which were our power base in America, will be the first to come out against us because they will say they cannot support a state that does not support democracy and equal voting rights for all its residents," he said.
Those reports have come out and Israel has worked incredibly hard to keep them out of the mainstream. Add in charges at the ICJ and ICC and Israel becomes a pariah state. Already they've lost about half their support of US Jews and the support of most Americans and Canadians. Governments can't continue to be backing an apartheid state in trial for genocide.
For Palestinians this means not fighting for slightly better bantustans it means fighting for the end of zionism and its rule in Israel.
That is now coming.
The devil is in the details. For example, no normal person would agree that self-defense means murdering 1,200 innocent civilians in a surprise terrorist attack.
Or that self-determination means voting in the elections of a country of which you are not a citizen.
Why do you back terrorism.
Why do you back denying your citizens free and fair elections.
Why do you back using human shields.
Why do you back executing people because of their sexual preferences.
Why do you back taking infants as hostages and then you back defying UN, ICC, ICJ orders to return those hostages immediately and unconditionally.
That is the complaint I see some people levelling.
Ditto on all of this.
I’ll add that the process started on Oct 7 is still unfolding and not a single development has been favorable to the McCountry.
From the travesty of the appalling performance of the IDF, the genocide of Palestinians, the exposed incessant lying of Israel, the awakening of the ICC and IJC, the loss of stature globally, the growing cost supporters are beginning to endure, the attack by Iran on Israel, the growing conflict with Hezbollah, the widening divisions within the Jewish community, the willingness of people around the world to express their revulsion with Israel’s action, the complete rejection of the manipulative use of the charge of antisemitism and the global student uprising…..Israel is a waning player.
Agreed, murdering 1,200 civilians, or in this case 300-600 civilians is not self defence.
Murdering 35,000 civilians, including 25,000 women and children is therefore also not self defence.
Yes, self determination means having a say in the country you live, including the rights of citizenship and citizens.
I don't back any of those things.
Why do you back an illegal occupation?
Why do you back colonialism?
Why do you back apartheid?
Why do you back genocide?
I disagree.
Take the ICC and ICJ. For countries like Canada and the EU, they won't be able to justify supporting a government or leaders charged with genocide. JT has already said he'll abide by ICC rulings. That means sanctions and that means more pressure towards the US, who largely stands alone already in their support of Israel.
Even going by your plan there is zero chance of Palestinians ever agreeing to that form for a two state solution. None. And why would they? They would gain nothing but to make the walls around the bantustans permanent and their opportunities to work behind Israeli lines disappear.
A couple of years ago the reports detailing Israeli apartheid came out, the last round of violence in 2021 was the start of Palestinian supporting being labelled as PLM and tied to BLM. This time the ground support is massive. Biden will lose the election over support of Israel, AIPAC is publicly hated and support for Israel limited to those over 65, with everyone under 30 understanding Israel to be apartheid and committing genocide.
How does zionism survive being associated with genocide now?
Already we have the Greens and NDP calling out for Palestinian rights.
The liberals are pro Israeli but feeling the pressure, cue JT's statement about the ICC.
With American students setting up tents on campuses? I thought that it started this way.
Internal resistance to apartheid - Wikipedia
Call me what you wish, but I am talking the truth to you.
It was Geno's comment that was inaccurate.
Then why are Hamas using their own people as human shields as their method of self defense. Hamas intentionally triggered an enormous increase in Israeli aggression on Oct.7 after having built their military infrastructure directly alongside civilian populations, hospitals and schools.
Self-determination does not mean being automatically granted citizenship, the vote, healthcare etc.. Just like Kautilya said he did for Canada, certain rules, standards, conditions, tests etc. must be met. Every sovereign nation on the globe has the right to impose whatever standards they wish for someone to attain those benefits.
I asked:
Why do you back terrorism.
Why do you back denying your citizens free and fair elections.
Why do you back using human shields.
Why do you back executing people because of their sexual preferences.
Why do you back taking infants as hostages and then you back defying UN, ICC, ICJ orders to return those hostages immediately and unconditionally.
The fact that you do not condemn Hamas for any of these actions means that you most certainly do support them.
You've accused everyone who disagrees with a word you say, of which there are dozens and dozens, of backing all those things to the point that your accusations are considered nothing more than bombast. Maybe you shouldn't have cried wolf so often.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_resistance_to_apartheid
Good point, Mandela and the ANC used violence against apartheid South Africa.
They were listed as terrorists by the US until 2008.
But if you look further down that page you'll see entries for international students amongst others.
You are less truthful than Netanyahu.
Why are you ok with Israel murdering 25,000 women and children, hammy?
You said you're against killing civilians.
So you don't back equal rights.
As we knew.
And I told you, I don't support any of those.
Its you that supports an illegal occupation, illegal blockade, apartheid, terrorism and genocide.
I keep calling for it all to end and for charges to both sides.
I'm repeating reports by the UN and human rights organizations, hammy.
Its you that's in denial.
Gaza war: UN rights expert accuses Israel of acts of genocide
Francesca Albanese says Israel seeks to destroy Palestinians, in a report Israel calls "outrageous".
www.bbc.com
