Deficit and Debt Deadbeat Drowns Province in Red Ink

[Skoob]

Thank you for admitting you made a mistake.

There's a first for everything.

In 2007, which Provincial Government was in charge? Are you even reading what was posted before commenting? It states that it was an agreement with the Government following the lawsuit.



There were some concessions later when I was using the 407ETR. Again why do you give the Ford Govt. a pass for its dozen or so lawsuits? I know that for the umpteenth time you wont answer this question!!

Liberals were in charge in 2007 but the legal case they were pursuing against the 407 ETR started before then. They initiated that. Lawsuits against the government are not controlled by the government.
So in the context of this topic, the DoFo government did not want to pursue legal action that it could not win anyway. That's the point.


TORONTO, (Aug. 17, 2005) — The Ontario Liberals refuse to throw in the towel in what is seemingly a losing battle with the owners of the private 407 ETR highway.
In yet another decision against the government, an independent panel of arbitrators has ruled that the contract conditions allow the highway owners to raise tolls as long as traffic doesn’t fall below 2002 levels.
https://www.trucknews.com/transportation/libs-mulling-over-latest-loss-in-407-dispute/1003112859/

If you want to bring up other unrelated lawsuits that's fine, but start another thread.
In the meantime, to answer your question...from the info I have seen about lawsuits many are just from unions (yawn), others are from special interest groups that don't like the fact that he's doing what he campaigned on. They would rather sue than wait for the next election (yawn) like normal democracies do when they don't like policies invoked by a party in power.
Greenpeace sues everyone all over the world.

fyi Liberals faced many lawsuits during their 15 year reign. You may also want to include those in your thread if your goal is to highlight how often governments are sued.

 

[Skoob]

Thank you for admitting you made a mistake.

Ok, so back to the topic.
You said the government should pursue legal action against the 407 ETR.
I said they wouldn't win and it would be a waste of money.

Do you agree?

 

[Frankfooter]

Ok, so back to the topic.
You said the government should pursue legal action against the 407 ETR.
I said they wouldn't win and it would be a waste of money.

Do you agree?

Where did I say they should pursue legal action?

There's a first for everything.

Liberals were in charge in 2007 but the legal case they were pursuing against the 407 ETR started before then. They initiated that. Lawsuits against the government are not controlled by the government.
So in the context of this topic, the DoFo government did not want to pursue legal action that it could not win anyway. That's the point.


fyi Liberals faced many lawsuits during their 15 year reign. You may also want to include those in your thread if your goal is to highlight how often governments are sued.

The liberals tried to do something about the stupid lease the cons signed with the 407 consortium.
They couldn't and now we are stuck with it.

Why do you back doing the same idiocy at Ontario Place?

 

[Anbarandy]

Are you back to the fact that was almost 40 years ago. Lots of time for a lefty that claims to be a champions of this and that. However that’s just lip service. Not unlike LTCs

However all you do is cry for more money for you and go near broke. Over and over and over..

.if you can find one quote of you or your teammates that claim oh so much. Arguing and putting pressure on a policitician to do something about it, or about poverty at the end of your nose, and your neighbor in steam of bike lanes, transit for you, carbon taxes etc, instead of yourself.

proove it

Oh, wait. You have no clue « where you are »

You exist in a make believe world:

 

[Not getting younger]

You exist in a make believe world:

View attachment 310528

Team lefty loser pep rally cartoons

 

[Skoob]

Where did I say they should pursue legal action?



The liberals tried to do something about the stupid lease the cons signed with the 407 consortium.
They couldn't and now we are stuck with it.

Why do you back doing the same idiocy at Ontario Place?

Post #12.

The Liberals tried knowing they couldn't succeed but wasted money fighting in court for a year anyway. i.e. phony publicity stunt.

Do you want DoFO to do the same thing?

I haven't seen the details of the Ontario Place lease. The city of Toronto has a few similar long term leases in place so this is not uncommon. The private company is investing $millions and my assumption is that they need reassurance that their investment is worthwhile.
So I'll reserve judgement until more info is available.

 

[Frankfooter]

Post #12.

The Liberals tried knowing they couldn't succeed but wasted money fighting in court for a year anyway. i.e. phony publicity stunt.

Do you want DoFO to do the same thing?

I haven't seen the details of the Ontario Place lease. The city of Toronto has a few similar long term leases in place so this is not uncommon. The private company is investing $millions and my assumption is that they need reassurance that their investment is worthwhile.
So I'll reserve judgement until more info is available.

No, I didn't say what you claimed and your quote proves it.

Nobody has seen the Ontario Place contract, that's the issue. Same as with the 407 except this time its way worse.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1666812368670851078

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1733880222645153883

 

[Skoob]

No, I didn't say what you claimed and your quote proves it.

Nobody has seen the Ontario Place contract, that's the issue. Same as with the 407 except this time its way worse.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1666812368670851078

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1733880222645153883

In post #12 in this thread you said: " He didn't collect $1 billion on fines for the 407 "

So? Are you lying?

 

[Frankfooter]

In post #12 in this thread you said: " He didn't collect $1 billion on fines for the 407 "

So? Are you lying?

Different issue, skoob.
DoFo refused to collect a $1 billion fine owed by the 407 consortium.
That didn't require legal action, just collecting the fine owed.

 

[Not getting younger]

Different issue, skoob.
DoFo refused to collect a $1 billion fine owed by the 407 consortium.
That didn't require legal action, just collecting the fine owed.

FFS at work again. In post 12 you said
“He didn’t collect fines”.
Fines plural is what the public pays. Nor can a person renew plates if they owe the 407 money. But you don’t drive, so how would you know that.

You didn’t say Ford waived a contractual penalty for not meeting revenue due to Covid lockdowns when few were on the road. 407 or 401..aka why take the 407, when the 401 isn’t a parking lot.

regarding the 407 and Harris you gripe so much about. A 99 year lease that brings in 48 million a year in revenue plus what they paid up front. Good deal or bad deal???????. Do the math. Oops you don’t even know what revenue streams are, what a deficit is, or what fwd is.

Regarding healthcare spending. Doesn’t matter how many you say it, doesn’t make it true. He’s putting more $$ into healthcare than Wynne did. What the FAO found is that he’s not allocating enough to meet demand from an exploding population and boomers

I wonder why he doesn’t have the money dimwit. If they have to restrain wages for 13 years, what makes you think they have the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for a few hundred thousand new hires. So in terms heads/capita they are essentially treading water. Or robbing others places to tread water in the gta

.plus everything else you want and want…I’ve told you many many many times, people are understaffed , have been for years and paying the price thanks to you. And they have nothing good to say about you. See also OPSEUs head saying they sold their souls to the devil…

All you do is want want want want want aka the pressure Drummond talks about. See 40 years of history and facts….Nor do you listen to people you think you know better than. Nor are you the only ones that matter. You just think you are

Ford government health care plans fail to meet capacity, staffing needs, FAO finds | Globalnews.ca

An analysis of the Ford government's health-care spending plans has found the province will need tens of thousands of new staff, while hospital demand will still outstrip capacity.

globalnews.ca

 

[Frankfooter]

FFS at work again. In post 12 you said
“He didn’t collect fines”.
Fines plural is what the public pays. Nor can a person renew plates if they owe the 407 money. But you don’t drive, so how would you know that.

There was $1 billion in penalties that DoFo chose not to collect.

Documents reveal Ford government opted not to pursue $1-billion penalty from 407 Express Toll Route

The Star has learned the 407 ETR was facing penalties “in the order of $1 billion” in 2020 due to pandemic-triggered lockdowns, but the province told the toll road owner it didn’t have to pay.

www.thestar.com

Auditor General will investigate Ford’s $1-billion write-off to Hwy 407 company: NDP

Letter from the Auditor General to Andrea Horwath attached

www.ontariondp.ca

 

[Skoob]

Different issue, skoob.
DoFo refused to collect a $1 billion fine owed by the 407 consortium.
That didn't require legal action, just collecting the fine owed.

Didn't require legal action?
How do you think that would have played out exactly?

Government: "Hey 407 ETR we want the $1 billion."
407 ETR: "Hey government, due to pandemic (force majeure) you are not entitled to it."
Government: "Then we'll take you to court"
407 ETR: "Go ahead...you'll lose"
Public: Government pursued case it couldn't win and blew a ton of money like the Liberals did before.

Besides, suing the 407 ETR would be suing CPP as they own 50% no?

 

[Anbarandy]

I haven't seen the details of the Ontario Place lease. The city of Toronto has a few similar long term leases in place so this is not uncommon.

Okay, then please list similar near 100-year City of Toronto leases in place of this magnitude for City property with private corporations:

1)

2)

3)

 

[Frankfooter]

Didn't require legal action?
How do you think that would have played out exactly?

Government: "Hey 407 ETR we want the $1 billion."
407 ETR: "Hey government, due to pandemic (force majeure) you are not entitled to it."
Government: "Then we'll take you to court"
407 ETR: "Go ahead...you'll lose"
Public: Government pursued case it couldn't win and blew a ton of money like the Liberals did before.

Besides, suing the 407 ETR would be suing CPP as they own 50% no?

Why do you think they would lose?

 

[bver_hunter]

Clearly, you have memory loss issues. Why might manufacturing losses be Important when discussing Harper and his not bad, not good, certainly not a disaster record. And you had to be reminded of those. Just as you did 2008 ( and don’t forget 2012).

. Or the present day.

Like I said, education is important.

No, you are so confused with this "Manufacturing" BS. Why are you linking me with it? You are really going at a tangent and all you do is resort to some wild allegations.
Just take your medications!!

 

[bver_hunter]

Lol, says the guy that call people dumb truckers and far more/worse….And all he does is the same with others here. Can dish and then whines about it

You guys go on with your abuses at the PM. I do not give a crap about that. But when you start directing your childish abuses at me personally, or Frankfooter, or Squeezer, then that is what I'm referring to. Now the FreeDumb convoy is directed at a particular group of truckers who occupied Ottawa that disrupted the daily lives and livelihood of the citizens for over a month. They then hindered the flow of goods and trade between Canada and USA at the border causing millions of dollars in losses, especially as essential goods were also held up. Worse than dumb!!

 

[bver_hunter]

There's a first for everything.

Liberals were in charge in 2007 but the legal case they were pursuing against the 407 ETR started before then. They initiated that. Lawsuits against the government are not controlled by the government.
So in the context of this topic, the DoFo government did not want to pursue legal action that it could not win anyway. That's the point.


TORONTO, (Aug. 17, 2005) — The Ontario Liberals refuse to throw in the towel in what is seemingly a losing battle with the owners of the private 407 ETR highway.
In yet another decision against the government, an independent panel of arbitrators has ruled that the contract conditions allow the highway owners to raise tolls as long as traffic doesn’t fall below 2002 levels.
https://www.trucknews.com/transportation/libs-mulling-over-latest-loss-in-407-dispute/1003112859/

If you want to bring up other unrelated lawsuits that's fine, but start another thread.
In the meantime, to answer your question...from the info I have seen about lawsuits many are just from unions (yawn), others are from special interest groups that don't like the fact that he's doing what he campaigned on. They would rather sue than wait for the next election (yawn) like normal democracies do when they don't like policies invoked by a party in power.
Greenpeace sues everyone all over the world.

fyi Liberals faced many lawsuits during their 15 year reign. You may also want to include those in your thread if your goal is to highlight how often governments are sued.

Ohh dear. Let me explain that the Liberals did bring that lawsuit against The 407 ETR. They then came to a agreement with the ETR in 2007. I already posted what that agreement included, although they lost the case. At least we got some benefits from it as a result of that agreement. In that case what is the relevance of The Ford Government and suing the 407ETR, as no one has mentioned that they did, as the case was done and dusted in Court.

But why are you so partisan when stating that the Liberal Govt. lost taxpayers money with suing the 407 ETR, but then giving the Ford Government a pass on his over a dozen lawsuits that he lost? You seem to have lost the plot, by then calling it a deflection as it is a direct comparison to the Ford Govt. "wasting taxpayers money" based on your arguments against The Liberal Govt and The 407ETR lawsuits. Especially when The Ford Govt. itself brought lawsuits against Legislations that it lost. One example was the Carbon Pricing that he challenged and lost. This is not about the lawsuits brought by Unions or other organizations that he also lost:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-government-court-cases-lost-doug-ford-1.6168318

Maybe you now get it!!

 

[Not getting younger]

No, you are so confused with this "Manufacturing" BS. Why are you linking me with it? You are really going at a tangent and all you do is resort to some wild allegations.
Just take your medications!!

Interesting. Economist and experts hardly call those losses BS. Far far from it.

And clearly you don’t remember Skoob having to remind you, that Harper had to deal with those losses ( plus 2008, plus 2012) when you were arguing Harper was a disaster and comparing his record to JTs

 

[Not getting younger]

You guys go on with your abuses at the PM. I do not give a crap about that. But when you start directing your childish abuses at me personally, or Frankfooter, or Squeezer, then that is what I'm referring to. Now the FreeDumb convoy is directed at a particular group of truckers who occupied Ottawa that disrupted the daily lives and livelihood of the citizens for over a month. They then hindered the flow of goods and trade between Canada and USA at the border causing millions of dollars in losses, especially as essential goods were also held up. Worse than dumb!!

Find a quote where I refer to Justin to anything other than JT. Just one.

You will find some quotes where I use terms like cityiots/center of the universe. Do you grasp

A) that is how most of Canada refers to you and I’ve said that many times .

B) cause and effect and you reap what you sow?

With respect to the convoy. Supporters came from near and far. No arguement they should have left sooner ( I’ve said that many times)…what demographic do you think they were, by the time they drove from Alberta to Ottawa and gathered there…….are you so naive as to believe they were all truckers or even a large majority….…never mind dumb ones or far right ones?

As far as protest are concerned. So blocking the flow of commerce and traffic is dumb when it’s commoners protesting vaccines and lock downs. But not dumb when teachers and unions do the same.

interesting

 

[Frankfooter]

Interesting. Economist and experts hardly call those losses BS. Far far from it.

And clearly you don’t remember Skoob having to remind you, that Harper had to deal with those losses ( plus 2008, plus 2012) when you were arguing Harper was a disaster and comparing his record to JTs

First you say they weren't losses then you say they are losses that Harper had to deal with.
Which is it?