Israel at war

Klatuu

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(8) How can Palestine be freed from the river to the sea? - Quora

I took out the more provocative bits.

Israel remains the only democracy in the Middle East. Since the rise of Erdogan there is but a single Muslim majority state we can consider democratic (Malaysia). There are a few dictatorship that aren’t plainly horrible (Jordan, Indonesia), but that’s as good as one can get. The most free Arab state is Lebanon, fifty places behind Israel and only there because their state is bordering on non-existence, being supplanted by Hezbollah, which isn’t exactly promising as far as freedom goes.

In other words if you were to remove all Jews from Palestine and end all foreign influence, the remaining Arabs would fight each other for dominance, then the victor establish another tinpot dictatorship. That dictatorship would make Gaza of the past month look like a pleasant dream. The main reason for that is what you might be thinking right now “but but foreign influence and the Americans”. This actually is the main reason for the sad state of the region, just not in the way you might think: refusal to accept responsibility for their own failures is what is keeping the Arabs down and what will keep them down until they change.

Even if we assume everything claimed about American or Western or any other influence is correct (it’s not, but let’s pretend otherwise), then the region is exceptionally vulnerable to foreign influence. If your society is so weak any Tom, Dick or Harry (Jefferson, Nixon, Truman) can get there with a wad of cash and start a civil war, your problem is not actually that agent with the cash. It’s the fact your society is a tinderbox just waiting for a spark. Such a tinderbox doesn’t actually need foreign money to turn the region ablaze. It might happen on occasion, but usually it will be domestic disputes and unresolved problems you swept under the rug by claiming they’re someone elses’ fault.

For Palestine to be free Arabs need to grow up and start acting as if it’s the 18th century. Or later, but 18th century would be good enough. Barring that the only way the region can be freed is if Arabs within play the role of an unimportant minority, drowning in their squabbles and never realizing what is important and what isn’t. They need to realize being ruled by a tyrant of your own religion isn’t a worthwhile goal to strive for in life. They need to accept being a Muslim doesn’t automatically make you better than your non-Muslim peers. They need to embrace the fact they live down in the dirt not because someone is pushing them down, but because they refuse to stand up. The sad state of affairs in the region is unfortunate, but the only way out is profound change in the Arab society and thinking. Without those Palestine can’t be free.

Let me key on a few facts from this.

No Muslim state in the Middle East is a democracy and they all follow a pattern. They are violent. They all have sectarian militias who engage in domestic terrorism and civil war with other militias. They are all corrupt and feature the leaders of these militias looting their states. They are all regressive and religiously fundamentalist.

Let's name them: - Iraq before the US came and during the intifada and the ISIS revolt. Libya (with the addition of tribal militias). Lebanon. Syria.

Any Palestinian state would be a carbon copy of those I just listed. At best, it would be a repressive, corrupt theocracy like Iran.

Anyone who doesn't perceive that is a dumbo. It's like the trans guy in my IG feed who dresses up as Victorian fictional heroines and who also supports Hamas. An openly gay man has to be pretty goddam fucking stupid to support Hamas ffs!

People have been fed this well-financed pablum about Palestinian freedom for 2 generations without being told exactly what it is going to mean for the actual Palestinians. And it's not fucking difficult to figure out. In 2005, Hamas actually won an election and had self government in Gaza. What did they do?.... They had a civil war and murdered their opposition and then there were no more elections.

Then they had an intifada. And since then, they have systematically looted their wretched population to build weapons systems to use against Israel and grifted on world support. And their leaders are all billionaires while the average Gazan struggles to avoid starvation.

Welcome to "The River to the Sea"! It was already there in Gaza and it was vile.

Throw in that all these corrupt warlords LOVE great power financing. So let's invite in Putin and Wagner. Or the USA. Or at the very least the Ayatollahs in Iran. They'll help you fight those pesky civil wars and throw your rivals off the roofs of hi rise apartments.
Just when I thought this thread could not possibly get any dumber.... 😏
 

Frankfooter

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No, Frankie. Every over-tired, scared, nervous kid with a rifle and a uniform in the front lines has done the same things since the beginning of time.
No, mandrill, there are rules of war and soldiers are trained to differentiate between civilians and militants.
What you are describing is terrorism and genocide.

There is nowhere safe for civilians to go, they are walled into a concentration camp.
Even Biden says Israel is targeting too many civilians and using too many indiscriminate weapons and thats the most supportive call around.
 
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Frankfooter

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Frankie, the one - and probably sole - argument that you're going to win is the issue of forcing Palestinians off their land on the West Bank. Literally no one I know supports that, including any Canadian Jew I've spoken to.

So that's a point you get. And probably the only point.
You are supporting it, mandrill.

You have had zero qualifications in your support of Israel here, this is the first time you mention it but you have never admitted the international law rulings on the settlements, never called out Israel and never called out settler terrorist attacks.

Israel is apartheid and now that the pretence of the two state solution is over the world has to rule on whether they can allow apartheid to exist.
You clearly think it can and can survive.
 
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Frankfooter

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Amnesty, HRW, UN, B''setlem actually are all 'pro Hamas'.

There will be a reckoning when this is all said and done.

Amnesty also supported the Russians in Ukraine btw.
This is a very telling post.
So much like the MAGA crowd about the DOJ.

Its so sad for someone to abandon all support for the law, human rights and rules.

What you have basically said is whatever Hamas has done should be ruled acceptable because 'frankie, its war' and no rules apply.
According to you there is no such thing as terrorism, genocide, targeting civilians, rape, killing babies, running over people with bulldozers, shooting people waving white flags, that none of that matters because its just war and we should accept that.

But once you do that then your entire defence becomes you backing the tribe you like and trying to kill of any other tribes because they are 'vermin'.
 
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canada-man

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Frankfooter

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Conil

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The Hamas subway !! Imagine the billions that Hamas and Muslim countries have wasted on these subways instead of helping their own citizens. All driven by hatred.

 
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canada-man

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(December 17, 2023 / JNS)
Hezbollah terrorists in Lebanon on Sunday fired an anti-tank missile at Kibbutz Sasa, close to the border.

The attack caused no injuries but some damage, said reports.

Additionally, several rockets fired from Lebanese territory towards the Jewish state hit open areas.

In response, the IDF shelled the source of the launches and fighter jets carried out a series of strikes targeting Hezbollah terrorist sites in Lebanon.



“If Hezbollah wants to go up a level, we will go up five,” said Defense Minister Yoav Gallant while visiting troops along the northern border on Sunday.

Earlier this month, Gallant told local leaders in northern Israel that Jerusalem plans to completely remove Hezbollah from Southern Lebanon.

On Sunday, he vowed to restore security to the north so that residents of border communities could return to their homes.

“We will do this either through an agreement, or using force,” said Gallant.

“We don’t want war, but we won’t hold it for too long,” he added.

On Saturday, an Israel Defense Forces reservist was killed and two others were wounded when an armed drone launched from Lebanon struck near the Eastern Galilee moshav of Margaliot.

The Iron Dome defense system intercepted a second drone, according to the military.

The casualty was identified as Warrant Officer (res.) Yehezkel Azaria, 53, from Petach Tikvah.

Hezbollah claimed responsibility for the attack.

Also on Saturday, terrorists in Lebanon fired several rockets towards Israel, to which the military responded by shelling the source of the fire.

Israeli Air Force fighter jets also struck a terror cell operating in a known Hezbollah stronghold in Lebanon.

Israeli airstrikes also targeted Hezbollah terrorist infrastructure, including command centers and missile launch sites.


The upsurge in attacks on Israel from Lebanon compels the Jewish state to act and remove the Hezbollah threat from its border, Israeli Minister-without-Portfolio Benny Gantz told U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken during a phone call last week.

“The international community must act against the state of Lebanon to stop the aggression in the border area,” warned Gantz, a member of the War Cabinet, according to a readout from his office.

U.N. Security Council Resolution 1701 stipulates that the Lebanese terrorist group is not allowed to operate south of the Litani River, which is located some 18 miles north of the Israeli frontier.

The U.N. resolution, which was passed after the 2006 Second Lebanon War between Israel and Hezbollah, also calls for the Iran-backed group to be disarmed.

Hezbollah anti-tank missile strikes Israeli kibbutz - JNS.org
 
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bver_hunter

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Hundreds protest in Tel Aviv after Israel kills three hostages by mistake

Hundreds of people marched in Tel Aviv after Israel said its troops had killed three hostages in Gaza after mistaking them for a threat. The military said the hostages had been killed during combat with militants in Gaza and expressed its condolences to the families while saying there would be 'full transparency' in the investigation into the incident Israel-Gaza war: latest updates Israeli military says its troops shot and killed three hostages by mistake:

 
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shack

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More apartheid from you.
If Israel has a right to self defense from terrorist attacks why don't Hamas and Palestinians have a right to self defense from the 238 settler terrorist attacks previous to Oct?
They do.

That's the problem with your logic, its just a fucking cycle of violence and racism where you think beating down the indigenous population over and over again in increasingly horrific manner will lead to some kumbaya paradise where you can just muffle the screaming and constant bombs.


The truce was ended by Netanyahu who declared he would end it days in advance. Hamas abided by the terms and hostages were released, since then Israel is just shooting everyone including hostages with white flags yelling in Hebrew.
A lie. He said that as long as Hamas was returning hostages, he'd abide by the ceasefire. If Hamas stopped, the ceasefire would be over. HAMAS STOPPED RETURNING HOSTAGES AND THEREFORE BROKE THE CEASEFIRE. He was straight up honest in advance about what would happen. Hamas didn't care and ignored his warning.

Your request is like the rapist saying 'why don't you just stop resisting so I can rape your ass and not have to break your arms too'.
You have no intelligent response as to how waiting for BDS to take hold and negotiations to take place can in any way shape or form be faster than an unconditional Hamas surrender. All you have is a ridiculous non-anology. It is physically impossible and you know it and you are incapable of proving your point.

But it doesn't bother you if more Palestinians die. You celebrate every Palestinian death as it provides more propaganda for your demonization of Israel. Keep on cheering those deaths, frank.

You mean like your 'suggestion' of using a nuke to end it now?
Another out and out lie. Did the US drop nuclear bombs on Japan in WWII? You are such a coward you can't admit what billions of children around the world have learned in grade 4 history since 1945. You display how utterly spineless and cowardly a namby-pamby you are. You have no shame in proving your cowardice every time you turtle.

Cowardice is a trait wherein excessive fear prevents an individual from taking a risk or facing danger. It is the opposite of courage. As a label, "cowardice" indicates a failure of character in the face of a challenge. One who succumbs to cowardice is known as a coward.

What are you afraid of?

A ceasefire will end it now.
An impossibility. A lie. A ceasefire requires negotiations. An unconditional surrender ends it now. You'd rather celebrate more Palestinian deaths.

That is the only way left for peace.
Keep lying. Nobody believes you.

You are ignorant.
And you are incapable of having any decency. You are reduced to name calling. That's what a loser does. Does that name-calling come before or after your repeated use of piece of shit to describe me? No honour. No decency. No class.

Israel has a long history of using human shields. Israel has a long history of doing everything you declare as evil, which you support.
A single incident of a couple of stupid Israeli soldiers, who were disciplined for their actions, hardly qualifies as a "long history". This is a war strategy that is Hamas policy. There is no comparison. The only people that are more cowardly and care less about Palestinian lives are people like you. You are grasping at straws with your pathetic attempts. You could stand in front of a Palestinian being shot in the head by Hamas vermin and you'd still deny it happened and ask for proof. That is not an exaggeration.

Hamas has perfected the use of human shields.

No
Truce and negotiate with Hamas
Debunked as being a total fallacy.

Unconditional surrender is immediate. It is impossible for anything else to stop the violence quicker. You epically failed in making your case.
 

Leimonis

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The Hamas subway !! Imagine the billions that Hamas and Muslim countries have wasted on these subways instead of helping their own citizens. All driven by hatred.

Oppressed indigenous Palestinians have been building a subway line to bring humanitarian aid to their children and seniors, but IDF violently attacked peaceful civilian infrastructure!
 
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