Club Dynasty

Blue Jays Off-Season Moves

black booty lover

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with a solid pitching starters line up Manoah makes good trade bait
for a power hitter

a hit and run lineup with speed works but we we need better contact hitters and more speed

i suspect they will go for a power hitter who strikes out a lot as power hitters do
I don't think Manoah makes good trade bait at all right now. You have a guy that was one of the worst pitchers in baseball with a piss poor attitude. Teams know this and will be looking to exploit the leverage they have on this. Your better off keeping him and hoping he turns out to be something again.
 

black booty lover

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After having a disaster of a season on the field and a bad attitude off? His trade value is about as low as it can get. They'll get next to nothing.

By far their best potential ROI is if they can get him back to where he was. If he doesn't the only thing they lose would be some mediocre return on a trade. Keeping him still provides the Jays for a potentially huge upside from what they got last year.

haha! I just posted the same thing.
 

maurice93

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Ugh....

That being said I have seen others online have speculated that the bigger issue with hitting was Hudgens (sp) who was let go, or even Mattingly who had certain authority over it and may have been behind the hard "other way" approach. Although hard to fathom, when there is an actual hitting coach! Martinez did something right in 2021 though, so who knows.

I hope it is the case that others were the issue, because the biggest reason behind the teams mediocrity last year was all the hitters who had large falls in production. As I mentioned earlier even if the remaining players average what they did in 22 and 23 (basically get half the delta back to what they were in 2022), it will be a significant increase in production from what we saw in 2023.
 

maurice93

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Interesting that Seattle did not even make a qualifying offer (1 yr / $20M) to Teoscar Hernandez which would have entitled them to draft compensation if he signed elsewhere. Basically they are afraid if they offer him 1yr / $20 million he will accept it, and they don't see value in such a contract. Somewhat surprising since there are not many hitters in the FA market, and I figured Teoscar would have bet on himself in this market and turned down the QO.

Apparently I misread the market. Perhaps something like 2/30 or 3/42 could be more of his value this offseason. Hoping the Jays make a run that because they do not a RH bat in the lineup.

I know he really struggled in the first half, so that his second half surge only got him up to an OPS+ of 106 for the season which is not great for a limited defensive outfielder. (6% above average in terms of OPS) But I figured that second half surge, and the core gross power numbers would have got him that qualifying offer.
 
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The Oracle

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Interesting that Seattle did not even make a qualifying offer (1 yr / $20M) to Teoscar Hernandez which would have entitled them to draft compensation if he signed elsewhere. Basically they are afraid if they offer him 1yr / $20 million he will accept it, and they don't see value in such a contract. Somewhat surprising since there are not many hitters in the FA market, and I figured Teoscar would have bet on himself in this market and turned down the QO.

Apparently I misread the market. Perhaps something like 2/30 or 3/42 could be more of his value this offseason. Hoping the Jays make a run that because they do not a RH bat in the lineup.

I know he really struggled in the first half, so that his second half surge only got him up to an OPS+ of 106 for the season which is not great for a limited defensive outfielder. (6% above average in terms of OPS) But I figured that second half surge, and the core gross power numbers would have got him that qualifying offer.

It sounds like he is amenable..
 

shack

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Ugh....

That being said I have seen others online have speculated that the bigger issue with hitting was Hudgens (sp) who was let go,
That can be the only conclusion.

or even Mattingly who had certain authority over it and may have been behind the hard "other way" approach.
I'm wondering that if he accepted the title of "offensive co-ordinator" (what does that even mean in baseball....Hudgens was "hitting strategist" LOL) does that mean he'll for sure be with us next year or this still a fall back position for him if Milwaukee doesn't sign him?
 

shack

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Nad Smith

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If attendance and tv ratings do not decline in the first 2 months of the season, then Toronto fans deserve whatever crap is on the menu (team, management, and food).....they need to win big (they won't) those first 2 months to try to get us discerning types back.

Ohtani needs and wants to go to a team that knows how to win.....and that isn't Toronto

And it is not just the awful playoff "performance"...it was getting bombed by Texas in September, schooled by Baltimore in August, getting shut out too many times, out managed by Tampa Bay
 

The Oracle

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I'm guessing that the Jays won't be. Unless he wants to take a big pay cut.
Wherever he goes he's going to have to take a pay cut.

Most teams analytics won't find him very attractive with those strikeouts and less than impressive defense.

I don't know the numbers. I'm sure some members on here can track them down. I'm thinking the Jays had close to the best defense in Baseball last year. On aggregate.
 

maurice93

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Wherever he goes he's going to have to take a pay cut.

Most teams analytics won't find him very attractive with those strikeouts and less than impressive defense.

I don't know the numbers. I'm sure some members on here can track them down. I'm thinking the Jays had close to the best defense in Baseball last year. On aggregate.
I don't think Teoscar is going to have to take much of a pay cut from his $14 million he was making last season (which was limited because he was still in arbitration). I expect 14-15M is where he will come in over a couple of years. Although if you asked him in April 2023, I suspect he was hoping for a contract in the around 20 once he entered free agency. But his first half performance took him out of that range.

In terms of team defence, that is certainly a key principle of the Jays acquisitions in recent years -- Chapman, Varsho, and KK are all high level defenders whose value was more defined by their defensive contributions.

Rumours are out there that the Jays are interested in Michael A Taylor from the Twins (Gold Glove Outfielder) He would also fit the mold of an outstanding D, below average hitter. Very similar to Daulton Varsho in his contributions last year. I would be fine with one ofTaylor and Varsho in my outfield. But I think having both limits the offence to much.
 
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maurice93

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That can be the only conclusion.

I'm wondering that if he accepted the title of "offensive co-ordinator" (what does that even mean in baseball....Hudgens was "hitting strategist" LOL) does that mean he'll for sure be with us next year or this still a fall back position for him if Milwaukee doesn't sign him?
I have no clue what offensive co-ordinator means, but if it gives him more oversight and a different voicethan the players had last year I'm generally for it. Apparently, Mattingly tried not to stick his nose in that area last year and deferred.

Who clearly knows who did what last year though. (in terms of hitting instruction)
 

The Oracle

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I don't think Teoscar is going to have to take much of a pay cut from his $14 million he was making last season (which was limited because he was still in arbitration). I expect 14-15M is where he will come in over a couple of years. Although if you asked him in April 2023, I suspect he was hoping for a contract in the around 20 once he entered free agency. But his first half performance took him out of that range.
I worded that wrong, thanks for clarifying. What I meant to say was he going to have accept less than the Mariners would have to have given in their qualifying offer. I think I've got that right.
 

The Oracle

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Mar 8, 2004
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I have no clue what offensive co-ordinator means, but if it gives him more oversight and a different voicethan the players had last year I'm generally for it. Apparently, Mattingly tried not to stick his nose in that area last year and deferred.

Who clearly knows who did what last year though. (in terms of hitting instruction)
What I don't understand is why the Yankees aren't bringing in Donny baseball to replace Aaron Boone?
 

shack

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Oct 2, 2001
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Wherever he goes he's going to have to take a pay cut.

Most teams analytics won't find him very attractive with those strikeouts and less than impressive defense.

I don't know the numbers. I'm sure some members on here can track them down. I'm thinking the Jays had close to the best defense in Baseball last year. On aggregate.
Fundamentally I don't disagree with you but Chapman is a name and he has Scott Boras as his agent. He's the top 3rd base available.

He will get more than 20 Mil, but it won't be long term. At least, that's what I think.
 
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