Israel at war

shapeup1

Well-known member
Jul 6, 2002
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Canada
Cowards, they'll fight and kill children and civilians but scurry like rats when they have to fight soldiers. Ambulances are for wounded palestinian civilians not Islamic terrorists.

Hamas tried to send fighters to Egypt in ambulances for wounded Gazans — US official

Israeli officials say inspectors uncovered oxygen concentrators for tunnels used by Palestinian terror groups inside truck carrying aid to Strip
Hamas tried to sneak its fighters out of the Gaza Strip in ambulances that evacuated dozens of wounded Palestinians to Egypt earlier this week, a senior Biden administration official said Friday.

Hamas had compiled a list of the seriously wounded that it wanted to evacuate from Gaza for treatment in Egypt, along with thousands of foreign nationals looking to flee the enclave.
The list was then vetted by Egypt and the United States, which found that a third of the names on it were of Hamas fighters, the administration official said, adding that the list was rejected and none of the 76 wounded Palestinians who were ultimately evacuated in ambulances out of Gaza were members of the terror group.

Meanwhile, two senior Israeli officials told The Times of Israel that Israeli inspectors earlier this week uncovered, hidden in an aid truck, several oxygen concentrators meant to aerate the tunnels operated by terror organizations in Gaza.

“These weren’t for use in the hospitals, but below them. That’s why they were smuggled among boxes of cookies,” one of the senior Israeli officials said, adding that the entire truck in which the oxygen concentrators were found was barred from entering Gaza.

 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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There is no reason to talk about Hamas because we already agree.
It is still part of the conversation and not to be ignored.

they could have considered covert operations.
How many Hamas are there? How long would that take? Gazans don't want Israeli soldiers in there and Israel doesn't want them there either. It is best to get rid of as many Hamas as quickly as possible.

Could you please describe these covert operations? How would they work?

Or they may have chosen to respond diplomatically to end the conflict once and for all.
It's been tried over and over and never works. How can there be a diplomatic solution when one side denies the other's right to exist.

They chose the carpet bombing and that is a war crime that needs to be called out.
It's war. War is hell. There will be a time when. Israel can be judged. Right now it's a question of survival. Israel may have evidence/intelligence to justify what they are doing and why. Showing all their cards now may be jeopardizing what they are deriving from there intelligence. We don't know.

Blame here cannot be shifted to Hamas in an attempt to absolve Israel's wrongdoing.
The vast majority of the blame lies with Hamas for triggering the attack that lead to Israel's expense and then using Gazans as shields for PR purposes, not allowing Gazans to leave the most dangerous areas. They forced Israel's hand into doing what they're doing. I'm not totally absolving Israel. I'm mostly blaming Hamas.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
91,577
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I'm sorry, what?
There is no evidence that Hamas is using anyone as human shields.
None.

Only IDF claims, like this one where they tried to justify targeting an ambulance by saying it was Hamas without being able to name or identify who you thought it was. The IDF uses it to retroactively justify all destruction of civilian targets.

 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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They are not bombing Hamas. They are bombing civilians hoping there are Hamas fighters amongst the dead civilians. War crime.
They are going after Hamas targets. It's not Israel's fault that Hamas places these targets where civilian casualties are inevitable. See shapeup's post above.

Do you dispute the contents?
 

niniveh

Well-known member
Jun 8, 2009
1,314
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They are lying.
Like in this video, where they can't even name who they thought they were targeting.
Jewish Writers et al Denounce Conflation: Criticism of Israel/AntiSemetism



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Rebecca Zweig, writer and filmmaker

Nan Goldin, artist and activist

Naomi Klein

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Omer Bartov, Professor of Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Brown University

Lior Sternfeld, Associate Professor of History and Jewish Studies, Penn State University

Sarah Sophie Flicker, organizer, artist, writer and co-founder of Firebrand, The Meteor, The Resistance Revival Chorus, The Citizens Band and The Women’s March

Ryan Deitsch, writer, filmmaker, March For Our Lives Co-Founder

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Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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I don't think it is the most important point.
I was pointing out you and he aren't actually making the same argument.

Just like "this person is dead, there is nothing we can do about it now" isn't the same argument as "That person deserved to die, and I'm really glad I killed him".
Dude, its the only point you've made, and pretty much make in your posts.

Pick a side, whine about the unfairness, be indifferent, it doesn't matter really.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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Yes.
You've made it very clear.
Unless someone has a peace deal on the table that you think will work, the only solution is war crimes, which you enthusiastically support.

That's very fucked up, which is my point.
Even many of the people here who are most stridently in favor of Israel's current actions aren't saying that "what is really needed are war crimes, because they don't count against Hamas or Gaza anyway, and also they are just the realistic best way to get what I want".

That you think pointing out I don't have a solution that magically fixes everything means I should just agree with you that war crimes are good is also not a great look on you.



So since for you this is all about how there can only be one winner, do you not even care which side wins?
You just want to encourage both sides to commit as many war crimes as possible to win so that things end more quickly?
Morality doesn't matter, just power, so you just want to see who has enough power to win and that's who you will support?
The only solution to no peace deal is war.

And no war has ever been conducted without the legal definition of war crimes being committed by any nation, anywhere, anytime in the history of the world.

To think otherwise shows you are truly trolling, so this post is for others to see what you are. Or realky that naive and stupid, so still for other to see what you are.

My opinion stands. So long as both sides can't agree to peace, and I truly don't believe they can, unless you can actually say something of real value, you just suck. And considering the top diplomats and keaders have tried for 75 years and failed, I'm pretty sure your suckage is going to continue for the foreseeable future.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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There is nothing of value in his post. What he has said has been rebutted before.

But Israel is not going after Hamas targets. They are going after civilian targets hoping there are Hamas targets in there. What they are also doing is in keeping with the general Israeli population and government's unacknowledged policy of meting out collective punishment. This is a war crime.
There are far too many examples where its clear that Israel is targeting civlians.



 
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