Israel at war

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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The occupation happened because of the 6 day war, which the Arab nations started. So it is very much a 2 way street.
The 6 day war happened because of the British partition plan, which Palestinians did not ask for and were against. For them it was a betrayal as they had backed the Brits in exchange for their own state. A bit like the way the Sikhs were promised their own state for backing the Brits. See a pattern?
 
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Anbarandy

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Apr 27, 2006
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No, not at all.

What part of Hamas, terrorist organization, funded, armed to the teeth and directed by Iran being extinguished and being deprived of their terrorist resources and infrastructure which has proven to be an existential military/terrorist threat to Israel are you unable and unwilling to comprehend?

Hamas, Hamas, Hamas.
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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No shack, I keep calling for a ceasefire.
Sure. So Hamas can replenish, reload and attack again when they feel like. They have no honour. You understand that concept, don't you. Not a good strategy for Israel.

Hamas started it and Israel will end "it". And by "it" I specifically and exclusively mean the Hamas terrorist organization. They will no longer exist. Israel will be safer and the residents of Gaza will be liberated from the oppressive rule of Hamas who continues to use aid intended for the Gazan people for their own violent/evil purposes and show total disregard for their own people by neglecting their needs, putting them in harm's way by using them as human shields and forcing Israel to retaliate.

It's a win:win:win situation. Gazans, Israel and the world. The only losers are the the Hamas terrorist organization and you.

You call for a ceasefire and I call for you to condemn the Oct. 7 attack as an act of terrorism.
 
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Frankfooter

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No, not at all.

What part of Hamas, terrorist organization, funded, armed to the teeth and directed by Iran being extinguished and being deprived of their terrorist resources and infrastructure which has proven to be an existential military/terrorist threat to Israel are you unable and unwilling to comprehend?

Hamas, Hamas, Hamas.
What part of terrorist Israel, funded by $3.8 billion US annually, continuing a 75 year old occupation against the indigenous population are you unwilling to comprehend?

If your concern is terrorism, then join the 80% of Canadians who call for both sides to be investigated and held to the law.
But if your concern is to back Jewish supremacists in continuing a colonial settler movement while committing genocide, how many do you think will join you?

These people are with me. Nobody is protesting for Israel.

 

Frankfooter

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So are you saying the 6 day war was justified?

Regardless of that, if they wanted Palestinian statehood, why did they not form one after Gaza was occupied by Egypt and West Bank by Jordan?

Also you forget, the only people there are not just the Palestinians. The Israelis have just as much a claim to the land as the Palestinians do. So it is not just the Palestinian preference that is important here.

Because if you argue that it is, then you are basically saying Jews do not have a right to the land, or that Israel should not have a right to exist. Is that your position?



Sikhs were never promised a state of their own. They infact agreed to not have a state of their own and join India. And they currently don't want it either. But that is irrelevant to this and let us not derail this thread with an unrelated topic. There are 2 threads for our resident TERBite's Khalistan fetish/pipe dream.
Before partition and the influx of zionists the Jewish population was about 7% of Palestine.
I don't think any wars are justified but then again, partition wasn't justified either. It was stupid of the Brits to solve a European problem on the backs of Palestinians.

Most Israeli Jews are immigrants and there are also still 5 million Palestinian refugees that were ethnically cleansed during Nabka 1.0. I don't know why you're posting here if you don't know the basics of the history, is it just because its another forum for Islamaphobia?

Sikhs were promised a state, you should know.
 
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Leimonis

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So are you saying the 6 day war was justified?

Regardless of that, if they wanted Palestinian statehood, why did they not form one after Gaza was occupied by Egypt and West Bank by Jordan?

Also you forget, the only people there are not just the Palestinians. The Israelis have just as much a claim to the land as the Palestinians do. So it is not just the Palestinian preference that is important here.

Because if you argue that it is, then you are basically saying Jews do not have a right to the land, or that Israel should not have a right to exist. Is that your position?



Sikhs were never promised a state of their own. They infact agreed to not have a state of their own and join India. And they currently don't want it either. But that is irrelevant to this and let us not derail this thread with an unrelated topic. There are 2 threads for our resident TERBite's Khalistan fetish/pipe dream.
An idea that israel with population of 7 million can demolish the wall and absorb 2 mln Gazans is absurd.
Hamas will simply spread everywhere in the West Bank and beyond and will not stop until israel doesn’t exist anymore.
That’s why all the calls for “end of occupation” are either naive or malicious.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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An idea that israel with population of 7 million can demolish the wall and absorb 2 mln Gazans is absurd.
Hamas will simply spread everywhere in the West Bank and beyond and will not stop until israel doesn’t exist anymore.
That’s why all the calls for “end of occupation” are either naive or malicious.
That's why it was incredibly stupid to let Israel wipe Palestine off the map.
And why Israel is talking about genocide or ethnic cleansing.

Jews are now the minority in Israel.

The zionists fucked up and now are trying to fix their demographic problem through genocide.


So you get a choice between backing genocide or calling for a ceasefire and the end of apartheid.
There is no two state choice any more.

 

Frankfooter

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But regardless of whether or not you consider the British partition as justified, that is 100 year old history. Israel is a sovereign, established, recognized state TODAY where the majority of its citizens were born and raised there.
Actually no, its not settled or recognized.

Not a single Israeli supporter on this board has ever been able to respond to multiple requests to provide a map of where they think the borders of Israel lie. Not one. They are still stuck between admitting the one state apartheid solution is in place and saying its all Israel or admitting its an illegal occupation and the two state solution has been screwed. Even when they claim they support the two state solution they can't say what they think the borders of Palestine would be. If you can't get them to tell you where their country is, why are you supporting it?

On top of that there is no international recognition of any borders for Israel besides the British 1947 Partition plan. Even the 1967 'borders' require admitting Israel committed a war crime and acquired land by war.

So in sum:

1. Israel has a right to exist and that has to be acknowledged.
2. Any peace or statehood has to be negotiated on present day realities. Not on pre-1948, 1949 or 1967. Those days are long gone.
3. The Nabka refugees are no longer refugees and should not have a right to return.

PS: Sikhs were never promised a state. 60% of Punjab went to Pakistan, so if they want one today, let them go to Pakistan and ask them. Again don't derail this one with this unrelated issue. Post it in the other thread.
1. Countries do not have a right to exist. Please find the law that backs this claim if you think its real.
2. Too late, Palestine has been wiped off the map and there is not enough contiguous land to make a Palestinian state. The apartheid one state solution is in effect.
3. The UN recognizes the Right of Return for Palestinian Refugees and Israel refuses to abide by dozens of UN resolutions calling for their return.
 
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Frankfooter

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Israel's international borders are recognized. Pre-67, it was the Green Line but presently, the West Bank (Areas A, B and C) and Gaza, both fall within Israeli territory and yes they are occupied and controlled by Israel. Although Areas A and B are under Palestinian administration. But generally Israel is recognized to be everything except Gaza and West Bank today.
All settlements are illegal.
The occupation is illegal.
No borders are internationally recognized.

Start there.

They do. People = countries. There does not have to be any law for this. It simply, is. If you act on this premise against any country, they will be justified in using force against you, the same as Israel.
No, your opinion is worthless no matter how many times you repeat it. If you think its true back it up with legal statements.


So present day realities. The Palestinians will undoubtedly get a much smaller state if they want one, and they'd have to be okay with that for the sake of peace and for the sake of their future generations. A lot of this was also their fault.
Then they won't agree and they will fight for equal rights and control of all of Israel democratically. Good luck against that fight.

They shouldn't. It is a ridiculous proposition.
Doesn't matter. The Jewish population is a minority, if they can't kill enough Palestinians or ethnically cleanse them from Israel than when apartheid ends there will be votes on the issues. And then the people will decide.

Israel should have settled with the two state solution while they could have.

You listen only to the Israeli side, you really need to hear the Palestinian side. But we both know you won't as they are Muslim.

Israel can't win a war against the end of apartheid.

Liberation for us means dismantling the structures of Zionist settler colonialism and apartheid and addressing the inequalities and injustices it has inflicted on us, the indigenous population of Palestine, over the past 100 years.

Liberation for us aims to transform the relationship between Palestinians and Israelis into one based on total equality and justice. The settler society is expected to abandon all colonial privileges and display real willingness to accept responsibility for past crimes and injustices. The compromise that indigenous Palestinians are expected to offer is to accept settlers as equal citizens in the new state between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.

This is the path to peace and security, and the international community, which has long accepted Israel’s war crimes against the Palestinians and has even been complicit in them, will have to embrace it.
 
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lomotil

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The unrest will perpetuate because Theodor Herzl was ultra successful in his vision for a Jewish homeland in the former Palestine and the Palestinians have not been successful in creating a safe and secure homeland , Arafat once said that the conflict will continue because of the power of Palestinian women's uteruses.

The current destruction is stoked by third parties and foreign actors who wish to make sure that Israel does normalize relations with Saudi Arabia, Egypt and other Middle East nations
 
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