Israel at war

Frankfooter

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Israeli Arabs have as much rights as Jewish citizens of Israel except they don't get drafted in the army.

Can you imagine what an advantage it is for your career not to waste 3 years of your youth in the army? I say they got a pretty sweet deal.
Not true, they live under a separate form of apartheid according to the UN, Amnesty, HRW and B'tselem.
They have no right to self determination, no right of return, restrictive marriage laws and multiple other legal differences.
Read the reports.

 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Return to 1967 borders and let the Jordanians and Egyptians turf all the squatters, or "settlers" if you prefer, out. Repatriate any refugees who want back on the land and institute a true democracy where everyone who lives in Israel gets a vote. Very simple, not so easy...
Only problem is Jordan and Egypt don't want the land (the originally stole) back and ceded control to Israel.

The Two State solution is the obvious idea but the problem is how to get the extremists to accept it. Israel is still a functioning democracy (unless Bibi uses the war as an excuse to push through his authoritarian laws) so public interest will marginalize their extremists but I don't know if there's a way to disarm groups like Hamas and PIJ who state they will accept no final peace that doesn't include them ruling an Islamic state over the entire region.
 
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basketcase

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It is. How else can one perceive it.

But OTOH, what else is Israel supposed to do?!?!?

You can't allow egregious acts such as those of last week to go unpunished and uncontrolled.
It would be nice if Hamas would chose to fight a straight up war instead of targeting Jewish civilians and hiding behind their own.

But yes, a response will mean Israel will be more willing to target Hamas leaders despite potential civilian deaths. Recall how the US reacted when a tiny fraction of their people were killed in 9/11?
 
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Leimonis

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... I don't know if there's a way to disarm groups like Hamas and PIJ who state they will accept no final peace that doesn't include them ruling an Islamic state over the entire region.
yeah both their financing (Iran etc) and indoctrination puts them in a position where they want an eternal conflict
 
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basketcase

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I am SHOCKED that the righties are suddenly no longer interested in backing Muslim religious protests!!!

SHOCKED!!!!!

Unlike the anti LGTBQ Muslim protests which were applauded by the righties, I don't see a single Republican asshole parading with these Muslims and cheering them on. I guess the righties just exploit Muslim grievances when its politically useful, huh?
I suspect there's some GOP types quietly happy that the Jews got theirs.
 

basketcase

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Jews cause this problem. They don't have any intention of giving Palestinians their land. Instead Jews bulldoze Arab homes and kick them out. Now the Arabs get mad and attack the Jews. So when will Jews give Palestine their own state?
Overt racism. thanks. And nice to see Kautilya be open in his agreement.

(for those too stupid to see how this is racism, even franky accepts that Israel isn't representative of the world's Jews and many Israeli Jews support a Palestinian stat).
 

basketcase

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I have not read any post in this thread so far.

Anyone know why Israel got caught off guard by this attack? As some info come out on that?
My hope is the Israeli public will hold Netanyahu accountable and get someone more moderate in power.
 

basketcase

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Just curious.
Why start with Israel oppresses Palestinians?
Why not when Hamas took over for the PA?
Why not 1967 and the 6 day war?
Why not the 1950s when Egypt cut off shipping following Arab-Israeli armistice agreements in 1949
Or when Arab rioters attacked long time Jewish residents in 1919 because they didn't like other Jews immigrating?

Of whenever people started hating people in different groups because they could.
 
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Leimonis

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Frankfooter

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Unlike you, I oppose all terrorism.

Why is it that you've made hundreds of posts since Hamas' invasion without even hinting at their choice being bad? is it because no one invited you to a Thanksgiving meal?
No you don't.
You support Israel shooting civilian protesters, bombing schools, apartment buildings and hospitals.
That's even more terrorist like than Hamas.

Gaza is 75% refugees and 50% children.
 
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basketcase

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Because per my understanding it all started with the cock up of Israel's formation where a majority of land was given to a minority of Jewish immigrants, without any heed to Palestinian natives and their demands. Ask @Frankfooter he will show you the maps etc., And then the continued oppression over the last 7+ decades even though a lot of it is also law enforcement and military action because of terrorism.
In a way correct but the UN Partition created both Jewish and Arab (Palestinian) states. The lack of a Palestinian state has a lot to do with Arab leadership (mainly in Damascus, Amman, and Cairo) decided couldn't accept the idea and used it as an excuse to expand their own power bases in an era where all of them endorsed a pan-Arab state (as long as it was under their control)
 

basketcase

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Yup a country with F35s and ICBMs and Nukes is facing an existential threat because of a few rockets by a poorly equipped militant group, over a country being invaded by the world's largest nuclear force. Yup, that makes sense! 🤪

Why doesn't Josh just get on his knees and give Putin a blowjob instead? 😂
Yet you seem massively worried about Sikh independence groups even more poorly armed.
 

basketcase

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... you know like the Israeli assholes pissing on dead Palestinian people.
WTF are you talking about?

Meanwhile significant numbers of Palestinians and Muslims around the world have been celebrating the deaths of Jewish civilians, including a shop in Mississauga that was handing out sweets and pro-Palestinian 'protesters' in NY taunting counter-protesters with the number of Jewish dead.
 

basketcase

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Palestinian armed group’s apparent deliberate targeting of civilians, indiscriminate attacks, and taking of civilians as hostages amount to war crimes under international humanitarian law. Israeli authorities’ cutting off electricity to Gaza and other punitive measures against Gaza’s civilian population would amount to unlawful collective punishment, which is a war crime. The laws of war apply to all parties to a conflict, irrespective of the lawfulness of their going to war or imbalances of power between the parties.

Wow. What a pathetic attempt to minimize Hamas' actions. Especially funny coming from a guy who openly supports killing of anyone he thinks is promoting Sikh independence.
 
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Butler1000

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From what I understand, when the area was theoretically under British control there were always many Jews living there and many more Christians than there are today. I think most of the Christians just decided to leave.
They started buying up land in the 1920's. The people at the time were happy to sell them desert land.
 

basketcase

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basketcase

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No one gives a shit about the Americans. 100s of Israelis and Palestinians are dying right now. They are more important. You are stating that statistic as if they matter more than Israelis and the Palestinians.
Are you surprised that people are more concerned by their own countrymen than some random people halfway around the world?
 
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