Should we halt Immigration until we can get it under control.

[Frankfooter]

That is what most would denial and revionist history Frankfurter..I don’t have the time or inclination to bury you with soooo much..

noticed you didn’t have an answer as to why Drummond had to called in……..

Maybe you should Google what Smokey Robinson said about it . OPSEUs head. he called a spade a spade. Sold their souls to the devil..Go ahead Google it.. here’s one

Ontario Public Service Employees Union says other unions so afraid of PCs they sold their souls to Liberals

The Ontario Public Service Employees Union says other labour leaders were so afraid of a Progressive Conservative government they “sold their souls to the Liberals.”

nationalpost.com

maybe try not re writing history and this

Unions and big spenders in Ontario elections need to be capped to level the playing field: chief electoral officer

Unions and other interests groups spent $8.4 million during the 2014 general election, about $1 million more than the per-party spending cap

nationalpost.com

And on and on and on…

man, there is denial, and then there is denial.

I hate them all. Pretty much because of crap like the above.but none more so than the liberal years 2003-2016 and the damage they did to this once amazing province. Damage done while their blind supporters in the GTA and paid supporters stuck their heads in the sand. While smalltown Ontario withered on the vine. Hydro rates were crushing people
Have you forgotten that nice politically correct term that never existed becore

Energy Poverty????


And as it relates to this thread, being over whelmed with immigrants, citizens, looking for work and a place to live, many of todays problems. No money for much of anything…You made your bed now you get to lie in it.

Opinion pieces from a right wing paper are hardly evidence.

You know what?

I don't hate the government, I think the vast majority are there trying to do good. There are exceptions, as there are everywhere, but they aren't evil.
They give us roads, schools, safe cities, hospitals
Sometimes they do stupid shit.
But the only ones I hate are the ones that are there to make them and their buddies richer, like $47 million DoFo.
In Canada we're lucky that kind of corruption is rare, we haven't seen anything so bad since Mulroney accepted bags of cash in a motel.

 

[explorerzip]

Perhaps you should speak with @bazokajoe. He is against immigration of any kind

Are we still talking about immigration? I thought we moved onto who's the more corrupt government, etc.

The inability to stay on topic and form complete thoughts never ceases to amaze me

 

[Not getting younger]

Opinion pieces from a right wing paper are hardly evidence.

of coarse it doesn't count.
Despite being a direct quote
/

Unions that backed Kathleen Wynne ‘sold their souls,’ OPSEU president says

Union leaders were ‘played,’ president of OPSEU says

www.thespec.com

You know what?

I don't hate the government, I think the vast majority are there trying to do good. There are exceptions, as there are everywhere, but they aren't evil.
They give us roads, schools, safe cities, hospitals
Sometimes they do stupid shit.
But the only ones I hate are the ones that are there to make them and their buddies richer, like $47 million DoFo.
In Canada we're lucky that kind of corruption is rare, we haven't seen anything so bad since Mulroney accepted bags of cash in a motel.
[/QUOTE]

you mean just a few areas don’t you?

Unions that backed Kathleen Wynne ‘sold their souls,’ OPSEU president says

Union leaders were ‘played,’ president of OPSEU says

www.thespec.com

Energy poverty? What a nice buzzword to describe driving people into poverty, having too choose between food or light.

Drummond etc etc??

And do you not see how all the crap from those years, draw direct lines to the serious issues we face today. Including serious issues in healthcare?

Look at the year house prices took of
Not long after soooooooo many lost their jobs while……

Toronto Real Estate Price History | Listing.ca

toronto.listing.ca

no doubt happy coincidences from those that stuck their heads in the sand and continue to.
And today, being flooded by those looking for work and a place to hang hats.

 

[Frankfooter]

of coarse it doesn't count.
Despite being a direct quote

Unions that backed Kathleen Wynne ‘sold their souls,’ OPSEU president says

Union leaders were ‘played,’ president of OPSEU says

www.thespec.com

you mean just a few areas don’t you?

Unions that backed Kathleen Wynne ‘sold their souls,’ OPSEU president says

Union leaders were ‘played,’ president of OPSEU says

www.thespec.com

Energy poverty? What a nice buzzword to describe driving people into poverty, having too choose between food or light.

Drummond etc etc??

And do you not see how all the crap from those years, draw direct lines to the serious issues we face today. Including serious issues in healthcare?

Look at the year house prices took of
Not long after soooooooo many lost their jobs while……

Toronto Real Estate Price History | Listing.ca

toronto.listing.ca

no doubt happy coincidences from those that stuck their heads in the sand and continue to.
And today, being flooded by those looking for work and a place to hang hats.

Did you read that article you posted? Its the opinion of one guy, not all unions and not even his union.

Energy poverty?
So buy more cheaper renewables that don't require you sending money to oil despots and big oil.
Spend money on energy with fixed costs.

And if you're worried about energy poverty, think again.
Its July and the world just lost 40% of rice exports, think that's not going to impact people?

India imposes major rice export ban, triggering inflation fears

India on Thursday ordered a halt to its largest rice export category in a move that will roughly halve shipments by the world's largest exporter of the grain, triggering fears of further inflation on global food markets.

www.reuters.com

 

[Not getting younger]

Did you read that article you posted? Its the opinion of one guy, not all unions and not even his union.

Energy poverty?
So buy more cheaper renewables that don't require you sending money to oil despots and big oil.
Spend money on energy with fixed costs.

And if you're worried about energy poverty, think again.
Its July and the world just lost 40% of rice exports, think that's not going to impact people?

India imposes major rice export ban, triggering inflation fears

India on Thursday ordered a halt to its largest rice export category in a move that will roughly halve shipments by the world's largest exporter of the grain, triggering fears of further inflation on global food markets.

www.reuters.com

yeah a union head. How often has any PS union….Why do you think that is…..because he could at least be honest and likewise see the damage coming?

why, do you think so many unionized PS employees had wages frozen for a
few years. And not just the ones that had money thrown at them hand over fist…..

Even today are only getting 1%
Because some sold their souls 2006-2014 in return for support, advertising, 3rd party advertising (work family coalition which was a front )…threw their own under bus…..

Why do think laws about that were changed in 2015….

seriously. There denial, and there’s denial…
and it all comes back 2003-2012 when a bunch of people in including voters stuck their heads in the sand…

Can’t help but notice you won’t address everything else. Including Drummond, including green energy friends getting rich ( kind of like Ford development buddies)

Nor the timing of the house price meteoric rise. After destroying much of Ontario (except their friends and the gta) who just………and today is just…..a nightmare

 

[mandrill]

so which of the 2 is our current government? corrupt or stupid?

It's not an either / or question w Dooffo, is it?

 

[Frankfooter]

yeah a union head. How often has any PS union….Why do you think that is…..because he could at least be honest and likewise see the damage coming?

why, do you think so many unionized PS employed had wages frozen for a
Few years. And not just the ones that had money thrown at them hand over fist…..

Even today are only getting 1%
Because some sold their souls 2006-2014 in return for support, advertising, 3rd party advertising (work family coalition which was a front )…threw their own under bus…..

Why do think laws about that were changed in 2015….

seriously. There denial, and there’s denial…
and it all comes back 2003-2012 when a bunch of people in including voters stuck their heads in the sand…

CAnt help but notice you won’t address everything else. Including Drummond, including green energy friends getting rich ( kind of like Ford development buddies)

Nor the timing of the house price meteoric rise. After destroying much of Ontario (except their friends and the gta) who just………and today is just…..a nightmare

That's a lot of ranting but nothing that needs replying to.
How many unions do you think now support DoFo after bill 124?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1653791740912885765

 

[princekwekua]

Are we still talking about immigration? I thought we moved onto who's the more corrupt government, etc.

The inability to stay on topic and form complete thoughts never ceases to amaze me

The topic is immigration. Start a freaking new thread on corruption if that is what strikes people's fancy. Myself, I dont indulge in stupidities. Thanks.

 

[Not getting younger]

That's a lot of ranting but nothing that needs replying to.
How many unions do you think now support DoFo after bill 124?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1653791740912885765

lmao.complete and utter deflection. Nothing to say, nothing that even approaches being able “rebut” the hard truth. Typical “liberal”
and what you don’t understand is that it was “they all do it..” Dis I not say that??? Or are just trying to deflect…

nah your beloved liberals. No way.
Except they more than anyone and their friends are responsible for the absolute shit we are in today. Including people in PS they threw under the bus.. let alone “why” so many have flocked to the GTA since 2012…

oh and by the way? Bill 124. That’s the one that forces 1% on so many isn’t it??!
Have you forgotten Drummond?

 

[Frankfooter]

lmao.complete and utter deflection. Nothing to say, nothing that even approaches being able “rebut” the hard truth. Typical “liberal”
and what you don’t understand is that it was “they all do it..” Dis I not say that??? Or are just trying to deflect…

nah your beloved liberals. No way.
Except they more than anyone and their friends are responsible for the absolute shit we are in today. Including people in PS they threw under the bus.. let alone “why” so many have flocked to the GTA since 2012…

oh and by the way? Bill 124. That’s the one that forces 1% on so many isn’t it??!
Have you forgotten Drummond?

Get along little doggie, we got a rambler!
Back to immigration now.

 

[explorerzip]

The topic is immigration. Start a freaking new thread on corruption if that is what strikes people's fancy. Myself, I dont indulge in stupidities. Thanks.

I was referring to the other side conversation currently going on about corruption. My comment wasn't directed at you. I should have been more precise with my comments, sorry.

 

[Not getting younger]

I was referring to the other side conversation currently going on about corruption. My comment wasn't directed at you. I should have been more precise with my comments, sorry.

while I don’t entirely disagree. You don’t think examining why so many have flooded the GTA is worthwhile?

Curious, because in my lifetimes worth of experience. I’ve always wondered how anyone can solve anything. If they first don’t understand why it’s happening.

Disagree?

 

[Not getting younger]

Get along little doggie, we got a rambler!
Back to immigration now.

not surprised.
how very droll, how very “today”
Are you old enough to know what they say about those that have nothing left but personal insults?

I wonder if you even understand it’s says more about you. Than anything.

 

[basketcase]

while I don’t entirely disagree. You don’t think examining why so many have flooded the GTA is worthwhile?
...

That's a pretty obvious question to answer.
1) It's well known
2) It has more supports than smaller towns
3) It has more jobs than smaller towns
4) Far more likely to have people from their homeland to help them integrate.


As to the thread in general and not directed to anyone in particular, I'm sure it's been discussed but refugees, asylum seekers, and immigration are completely different things. There is a huge difference between people crossing the border from the US (safe 3rd party) who may potentially be accused of shopping for a home and refugees directly fleeing from a threat. The actual immigration system seems to function pretty well.

 

[Frankfooter]

not surprised.
how very droll, how very “today”
Are you old enough to know what they say about those that have nothing left but personal insults?

I wonder if you even understand it’s says more about you. Than anything.

You think using personal insults is bad?
Perhaps you should consider posting about immigration instead of trying to derail the thread.

Boost immigration or face even higher interest rates to curb inflation, warns Bank of Canada governor - Canada Immigration and Visa Information. Canadian Immigration Services and Free Online Evaluation.

Bank of Canada governor Tiff Macklem wants the country to bring in more immigrants to fill the jobs going begging for a lack of workers – and warns interest rate increases could be in store without those extra workers.

www.immigration.ca

 

[explorerzip]

while I don’t entirely disagree. You don’t think examining why so many have flooded the GTA is worthwhile?

Curious, because in my lifetimes worth of experience. I’ve always wondered how anyone can solve anything. If they first don’t understand why it’s happening.

Disagree?

I haven't followed every word of your side convo about corruption that's about 2-3 pages long now. You can't be suggesting that corruption is causing people to flood the GTA because that doesn't make sense.

There's no msytery why people choose cities over other areas. Governments can encourage / incentivize people to move to other areas, but they can't be forced and it depends on the local economy if one even exists. The GTA is a paradise (yes, it's a shithole to us) realtive to many other regions despite all the problems we're facing. I honestly don't know what we gain by knowing why people choose to live in the GTA vs other areas especially after they moved here. I'm sure you have legit reasons to question, but maybe they got lost in the back and forth. Reasons aside, we will always need immigration to keep our economy and social services going. Failing that, we would need a massive and sustained increase in the birth rate or a rethink on how to attract people to industries facing shortages and how to address any protectionism.

Again, I thought that immigration was the theme of this thread? You even said it yourself that even experts can't agree on if it's a net good or bad, and the number. Yet so many here have no doubt at all that it's as simple as slowing or stopping immigration completely. If it is really so simple, then why hasn't been done yet?

It staggers me that only 1 person wrote about how the system works (because he went through it) and has a suggestion on how to improve it. Yet no one acknowledged him or replied. Someone else links an article about how we're trying to attract American high tech workers on the H1-B visa program and there's no comment about that too. God forbid we talk about the immigration system, how it works, how it can improve and recent developments on a thread about immigration.

I guess it's much more important to win an argument over which government is more corrupt.

 

[Not getting younger]

You think using personal insults is bad?
Perhaps you should consider posting about immigration instead of trying to derail the thread.

Boost immigration or face even higher interest rates to curb inflation, warns Bank of Canada governor - Canada Immigration and Visa Information. Canadian Immigration Services and Free Online Evaluation.

Bank of Canada governor Tiff Macklem wants the country to bring in more immigrants to fill the jobs going begging for a lack of workers – and warns interest rate increases could be in store without those extra workers.

www.immigration.ca

 

[Not getting younger]

So, immigration which is now 500,000 a year, most of which is heading to the GTA. And not just this year…every year…until something is done….Some think we should halt it. Because we don’t have the housing, because we don’t have the services etc etc…think hard about that. You think “you” don’t have it???

.Not understanding why we need it…..and then going through that…Not sure why you’re posting that. Go back to page 1 or 2? I already knew that. One of the first, no actually the first to point out we are getting older. Or have you not been reading along???

Then looking at “why” they do. Jobs… Is derailing the thread????….and the scarcity of them “everywhere else”.is derailing the thread??

when without having at least an idea of why that is….is derailing it?

Kind of hard to hope for a fix………if we can’t get the politicians….who control the purse strings……..to spend god awful amounts of money somewhere else…...because if your whining that you don’t have the housing, the infrastructure, the services, the jobs…..

You were the one, that wouldn’t accept………That they all, throw god awful amounts at the GTA ( and friends) letting other areas rot, kill them ( like Alberta today) central/small town Ontario 2003-2012…..for your votes…

And you to explorerzip. “You” are not the only person, or the most important in Canada..your votes though?????

correct?

 

[Frankfooter]

So, immigration which is now 500,000 a year, most of which is heading to the GTA. And not just this year…every year…until something is done….Some think we should halt it. Because we don’t have the housing, because we don’t have the services etc etc…think hard about that. You think “you” don’t have it???

.Not understanding why we need it…..and then going through that…Not sure why you’re posting that. Go back to page 1 or 2? I already knew that. One of the first, no actually the first to point out we are getting older. Or have you not been reading along???

Then looking at “why” they do. Jobs… Is derailing the thread????….and the scarcity of them “everywhere else”.is derailing the thread??

when without having at least an idea of why that is….is derailing it?

Kind of hard to hope for a fix………if we can’t get the politicians….who control the purse strings……..to spend god awful amounts of money somewhere else…...because if your whining that you don’t have the housing, the infrastructure, the services, the jobs…..

You were the one, that wouldn’t accept………That they all, throw god awful amounts at the GTA ( and friends) letting other areas rot, kill them ( like Alberta today) central/small town Ontario 2003-2012…..for your votes…

And you to explorerzip. “You” are not the only person, or the most important in Canada..your votes though?????

correct?

You can argue that we should stop immigration but then you need a plan to keep the economy going, which you've failed to do.
If you're arguing that we should fix immigration I'd agree, Kautilya's posts on the process are great and his personal experience and comments on how we can fix that part of the system are great.
I'm more concerned with how we deal with them here, which is also related to making the city more livable in general.

Rent control
Raise minimum wage
Support rooming houses as bridge to apartments/condos/houses
Raise social supports
Tax the rich to pay
Fix systematic stuff that is a drag to the system, the immigration and work certification processes K talks about, fix land use rules to favour good land use and affordable homes over developer profits and fix the systematic crap that makes life for immigrants hard. Like this:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/wage-theft-ontario-workers-1.6913090

 

[Not getting younger]

You can argue that we should stop immigration but then you need a plan to keep the economy going, which you've failed to do.
If you're arguing that we should fix immigration I'd agree, Kautilya's posts on the process are great and his personal experience and comments on how we can fix that part of the system are great.
I'm more concerned with how we deal with them here, which is also related to making the city more livable in general.

Rent control
Raise minimum wage
Support rooming houses as bridge to apartments/condos/houses
Raise social supports
Tax the rich to pay
Fix systematic stuff that is a drag to the system, the immigration and work certification processes K talks about, fix land use rules to favour good land use and affordable homes over developer profits and fix the systematic crap that makes life for immigrants hard. Like this:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/wage-theft-ontario-workers-1.6913090

Given you replied to quotes me. I’m assuming that’s “aimed” at me. Especially because you said “which you’ve failed to do”If I’m wrong my bad.

Have you not been reading/following? Are you having difficulty understanding the the words…. Going all the way back to page 1……and consistently throughout…we need them…..and I’ll quote myself “for both economic growth….and tax revenue”….So we can continue to provide the services..let alone hope someday debt/gdp ( if you even know what that’s is)

This is now about the 16th post of yours that’s derailing the thread because you seem to have..

Let me dumb this down for you.
You do I hope understand basic economic principles about economies, economic growth?

Ever looked at the rust belt in the US???????
Do you know what happens when a province or country relies way too heavily on one small area, or one part of the economy? We’ll look at Alberta…..

So rather than actually try to fix the problem, diversity…diversify. Your solution is to keep throwing money at the GTA, so that more and more ( including people that live in parts of Canada withering in the vine) head there??????? Have the last 20 years not shown you how that goes?

definition of insanity?

The biggest problem facing us, is convincing those who control the purse strings to a) stop ignoring other parts of the country, b) invest in other parts of the country for a change and c) convince voters to realize there’s more to Canada than the center of the universe.

we should probably start with electoral reform, proportional representation. Also mentioned.