Steeles Royal

Should we halt Immigration until we can get it under control.

toguy5252

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Jun 22, 2009
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One could argue we’re more than halfway there considering from the past 3.5+ years with how bank accounts can be frozen without due process unless its a govt sanctioned protest, and were taxed into oblivion with not much to show for it.

Property tax
Carbon tax
Sales tax
Income tax
Roads, hospitals, police, military, airports. Yea not much to show for it.
 
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richaceg

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Feb 11, 2009
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Roads, hospitals, police, military, airports. Yea not much to show for it.
if that's where all our tax dollars go, we won't be in this deep hole....in taxes and interest rates...you might want to go back to school....
 

drewstar

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Dec 22, 2009
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Does that make up for the majority of the expenses or does the majority go towards healthcare and infrastructure?
I sense that youre being intentionally obtuse.

If I had a full breakdown item by item, we would have govt transparency and wouldnt be where we are now with record debt, unaffordable cost of living and a declining standard of living. Maybe you missed the part of sending $8 billion and counting to a foreign proxy war among other large expenses with no accountability.

As they always say, easier to fool someone than convince them theyve been fooled.
 

explorerzip

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Jul 27, 2006
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If you truly believe our tax dollars are being used wisely, I have a purple elephant to sell you.
You said "not much to show for it" implying that most if not all of tax revenues get wasted. There certainly is waste and that's not unique to government, but to suggest that nothing gets done at all is false.
 

explorerzip

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Jul 27, 2006
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One could argue we’re more than halfway there considering from the past 3.5+ years with how bank accounts can be frozen without due process unless its a govt sanctioned protest, and were taxed into oblivion with not much to show for it.

Property tax
Carbon tax
Sales tax
Income tax
You're again going off on a tangent here. Are we talking about immigration, tax or judicial reform?
 

drewstar

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Dec 22, 2009
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My point was meant to convey that yes some money is always wasted because there are inefficiencies. Some are spent in endeavours that some dont agree with but are necessary for us to do because of our international commitments (such as assisting Ukraine materially). But the majority is not being wasted and go towards ensuring services for citizens such as healthcare, infrastructure and others. It can however, be improved though, which I don't disagree with.
I respectfully disagree on all of the above.

Ukraine isnt part of NATO - theyre just a pawn between the US and Russia. And Canada as usual is the virtue signalling capital of the world. We dont owe them anything - especially not $8 billion when we have record debt and counting.

For a country that taxes as much as we do, we have SO little to show for it. To say the majority is or isnt being wasted can be subjective, but when we have so much gross overspending on multiple needless and often manufactured issues that I highlighted in my first post in this thread, theres almost zero chance were not grossly mismanaging our tax dollars.
 

drewstar

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Dec 22, 2009
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You're again going off on a tangent here. Are we talking about immigration, tax or judicial reform?
Tax.

Our supreme court is already compromised - not a surprise when we know who appointed these “judges”. Case in point is the unjabbed woman who got denied life saving operation and has to find it in the US now.
 

explorerzip

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Jul 27, 2006
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For a country that taxes as much as we do, we have SO little to show for it. To say the majority is or isnt being wasted can be subjective, but when we have so much gross overspending on multiple needless and often manufactured issues that I highlighted in my first post in this thread, theres almost zero chance were not grossly mismanaging our tax dollars.
What exactly does "SO little to show for mean" exactly? Maybe go into a bit more detail so we can have an honest debate.
 
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drewstar

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Dec 22, 2009
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You said "not much to show for it" implying that most if not all of tax revenues get wasted. There certainly is waste and that's not unique to government, but to suggest that nothing gets done at all is false.
Theyre certainly not doing nothing, theyre using it wastefully on manufactured social issues in some cases as an examples. Have you not seen the countless scandals? It feels like Im preaching to the choir here when its painfully obvious.
 

explorerzip

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Jul 27, 2006
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Tax.

Our supreme court is already compromised - not a surprise when we know who appointed these “judges”. Case in point is the unjabbed woman who got denied life saving operation and has to find it in the US now.
The theme of the thread is immigration. It's tough to have a meaningful discussion when you're all over the place with different issues.
 
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drewstar

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Dec 22, 2009
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What exactly does "SO little to show for mean" exactly? Maybe go into a bit more detail so we can have an honest debate.
Il share more in due time, but in principle our tax dollars are not being used wisely at minimum. Many countries tax way less and yet arent running up record levels of unsustainable debt like we are.

The fact that I even have to explain this concept is frightening when many observers can see issues that Canadians are blind to lol.
 

drewstar

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Dec 22, 2009
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The theme of the thread is immigration. It's tough to have a meaningful discussion when you're all over the place with different issues.
Fair point. However, alot of geopolitical factors impact immigration - to dismiss other factors that play a role wouldnt be prudent imo.
 

explorerzip

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Jul 27, 2006
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Il share more in due time, but in principle our tax dollars are not being used wisely at minimum. Many countries tax way less and yet arent running up record levels of unsustainable debt like we are.

The fact that I even have to explain this concept is frightening when many observers can see issues that Canadians are blind to lol.
You seem to be bugged by a lot of issues in this country so just list them. No need to wait for due time. What are your ideas to spend tax dollars more wisely? As if any one person can claim that they are more wise in financial matters than others or they never waste money? Who are these model countries that you want to emulate? How would you know that information if you're not a government insider? Lots of countries look great on the outside, but the story flips if you live there.

The fact that I have to ask you to give specifics is even more frightening. There's no way to have an intelligent discussion without knowing the details.
 
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explorerzip

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Jul 27, 2006
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Fair point. However, alot of geopolitical factors impact immigration - to dismiss other factors that play a role wouldnt be prudent imo.
We have little control over those geopolitical factors so I don't see how bringing them up furthers this discussion.
 
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explorerzip

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I think you are overstating issues.

Firstly, Ukraine is another debate. But we are part of NATO and as part of NATO we have commitments towards NATO and implicitly towards security in Europe. So yes, we do owe our part in supporting Ukraine. There is also the moral debate about whether to support a country being attacked and invaded by a rogue nation like Russia. I think we should.

But, what do you mean we have so little to show for? We have free healthcare which the Americans dont. Which by itself is huge. We have cheaper medication. We have newer infrastructure. Am sure there are many other inefficiencies that need to be fixed. But every developed country overspends. Incurs debt. It is the govt spending and debt that affords the standard of living. I dont see Canada as an exception in this. It is not perfect, but is way better than many others. Especially our neighbour to the south.
It's not just governments, companies overspend and carry plenty of debt. I know that some might say: when a company overspends they'll just go bankrupt, but it's never that simple.
 

Not getting younger

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Jun 29, 2022
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Ford is a conservative.
He cut rent control and killed minimum wage hikes.

The landlord and tenant board he's acting like a typical conservative, he's putting corporate landlords to the front of the line while forcing family owned landlords and tenants to wait years for hearings.
And spent more $$ on things. Like fighting crime. Be it other areas of PS, other than Fn teachers be it LTCs, be gasp save the planet the ministry of the Enviroment and the Ministry of forestry…be it expansions to the 407, 412, 418, Go. In his first years before Covid hit, and utterly trashed the fiscal situation he spent more than Wynne….

That’s hardly typical Conservative ideology.
But…..

it makes me laugh sometimes. He’s trying to push expansion so we can actually build housing to meet demand ( good luck with that) and the left is whining about the homeless, the cost of rent/housing, immigration numbers to the gta, and god forbid. Development on green spaces…Look around Ontario. What’s left?
to the west the Niagara Escarpment, to the north Lake Simcoe, to the North East the oak ridges Morraine ( do you like fresh, clear, cold water) to the south Lake Ontario.

Certainly beats the shit out of wind farms the GTA ramned down rural Ontarios throats and no one gave a shit….
 

Not getting younger

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Generally, the social services, language translators, medical and legal and community services that Toronto has are not available in the smaller town are they? Also small town folk would in many cases be much more xenophobic.
Maybe the asylum seekers know that too eh ?
lol. Services in small town Ontario?????
 

toguy5252

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2009
15,964
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If you truly believe our tax dollars are being used wisely, I have a purple elephant to sell you.
There is no doubt there is waste. There is s difference between there being some wateful spending and not getting much for out tax dollars
 
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