Guns in America: 12 year old girl murders father with gun, then kills herself

[Not getting younger]

How many mass druggings in public school have there been? How many mass druggings in synagogues? Whataboutism is a diversion. Another rabbit hole.

So you support your argument by stating how many guns there are? That proves absolutely nothing about whether less guns will have no effect.

If anything, that supports the argument that there are too many guns.

If there were zero guns, do you agree that there would be zero gun deaths? Not that I think that will ever happen but it makes sense.

Well, logic would dictate that if there only 200M guns there would be less gun deaths, not even necessarily 1/2 less. Do you believe that statement is correct or do you think that the number of gun deaths would be the same?

How many mass druggings in public school have there been? How many mass druggings in synagogues? Whataboutism is a diversion. Another rabbit hole

Another person whose reading comprehension is that of a grade schooler. And if your parents paid for any of your schooling, give them their money back. You conned them.

We live next door to them/that Einstein..How has banning illicit drugs worked……..Seriously, what level of school did you get past?

A d when asked to come with something to support the argument that bans work… what’s is it with average intelligence of these guys. “How many mass druggings” Typical Liberal

But
For what it’s worth Einstein Fentanyl is killing a lot more per day in Canada than guns if knew Jack about stats.

And with respect to gangs >guns/drugs/human trafficking (all banned, all very deadly…how’s the ban working…reading comprehension child?) and going after them, fixing our soft on crime justice system
/crickets<<<exactly what we’ve seen from the liberals and their supporters for the past 20 years. Don’t let the truth hurt you snowflake.

/ignored

 

[barnacler]

This thread is a discussion about banning certain types of guns, not banning them altogether.

Of course, if private gun-ownership is outlawed, a country leaves itself open to invasion. This is what likely happened to the Soviet Union in 1941 when the Nazis attacked it.

No, you are trying to use the other extreme to stop the discussion. That's dishonest. Stop that.....

I do not regard my opinion as extreme, I regard it as backed by the facts. Nor do I find it dishonest. Nor do I intend to stop.

This thread is a discussion about banning certain types of guns, not banning them altogether.

Of course, if private gun-ownership is outlawed, a country leaves itself open to invasion. This is what likely happened to the Soviet Union in 1941 when the Nazis attacked it.

No, you are trying to use the other extreme to stop the discussion. That's dishonest. Stop that.....

The thread is open to all sorts of interpretations, and OBVIOUSLY gun owners see the idea of restricting certain types of guns as a step down the road to confiscation. It is perfectly reasonable to discuss the reasoning behind banning CERTAN types of guns and whether it in effect is leading to the total banning of guns. And then to remind others about the deadly history of total gun bans.

That is not an extreme in my opinion. Perhaps you think it is extreme, that's fine, discuss it. PRECISELY what have I been dishonest about?

And I must say, I always find it ironic when someone I am having a discussion with concerning freedom, who I feel is taking a step away from freedom, refutes this charge by telling me to stop discussing it. A person deriding the idea of banning altogether proceeds to attempt to ban me from talking.

 

[carvesg]

400 million firearms. And that’s just what they know……..You going to March on them? And yes short barreled rifles have advantages. What is their capacity and what is ours.

Gun enthusiast you are.
Given our capacity. What is far far far far deadlier,
.223
Or
12 gauge slugs that will drop cops in body armor let alone anything else are accurate out past 100 yards and have entry wounds the size of a dime vs a twig. . Didn’t think about that……did you.

Do you actually own guns?
Most gun owners I know know ballistics too. And that the reason they are favoured is rate of fire and capacity…..which here in Canada means Jack shit. Both are the same.

A 1 oz. (437.5 grain) 2 3/4-inch Foster 12 gauge shotgun slug achieves a velocity of approximately 1,560 fps (475 m/s) with a muzzle energy of 2,363 ft. lbs (3204 j

.223???
959 ft⋅lbf (1,300 J)

Are you a gun owner?

And I wish I could agree about split discussions. 20 years experience every single time something happens in the US….this is what happens. Canadians ultimately start howling for bans and more GC..

And with respect to anyone that actually understood firearms. Me, if I wanted to create a nightmare unseen before. I’d start with a larger shot, just obliterating the kids/teachers. And when Leo showed up I’d switch to the slugs. Start dropping outside the school. And then make them shit their pants once in the hallways, “behind” doors…
Mine I could if I wanted shorten the barrel length too.

And I am, so very tired of this.

You seem to wonder if I'm a gun owner or can handle a gun ....yes since I was a kid . Shooting .22 at 7 , 20 gauge at 8 as well .308 at 8 or 9 . Was allowed to handle guns by the age 5 or 6 if they needed to be cleaned by my dad ...who was a hawk about the handling... drilling into us never to trust anyone about a firearm being unloaded not even him . Shooting pellet guns for years as kids as it was cheaper than the .22 as we were going through boxes of 500 a day . Still can make an happy face on a target after 1 or 2 rounds of practice with a 9mm handgun a decade after my last shot . But enough of that to put the question behind.....

I hear you about the difference between rifles and shotguns in terms of damage or efficiency but we are not here to promote or give or enhance the knowledge of people searching to kill more efficiently but to curve the death curve always ascending or in the case of this thread ... what could we do to prevent a 12 year old girl to think that she can solve her problems by killing her dad and commit suicide with a firearm.

I agree with you about the differences between US and Canada . We were doing pretty good as it was until PET junior politicized the handgun restrictions while dismissing the stats to gain a few points in the polls and apaise the anti gun lobby which has not solved the gang killings still increasing to this day .

As for me... the US at this point has reached the point of no return and we can see the struggle that they have to go through about how to handle it. Their only hope is the introduce background check that might reduce over time the random mass killings, suicide by cop , etc... Gang killings are a different story all together and no laws will be able to fix that until they manage their drug problems so will we .

: All of us on this thread should refocus our efforts to come up with ideas to prevent a kid to have easy access to guns at the age of 12 if unstable, secretive or paranoid instead of debating the gun laws at large

 

[Not getting younger]

You seem to wonder if I'm a gun owner or can handle a gun ....yes since I was a kid . Shooting .22 at 7 , 20 gauge at 8 as well .308 at 8 or 9 . Was allowed to handle guns by the age 5 or 6 if they needed to be cleaned by my dad ...who was a hawk about the handling... drilling into us never to trust anyone about a firearm being unloaded not even him . Shooting pellet guns for years as kids as it was cheaper than the .22 as we were going through boxes of 500 a day . Still can make an happy face on a target after 1 or 2 rounds of practice with a 9mm handgun a decade after my last shot . But enough of that to put the question behind.....

I hear you about the difference between rifles and shotguns in terms of damage or efficiency but we are not here to promote or give or enhance the knowledge of people searching to kill more efficiently but to curve the death curve always ascending or in the case of this thread ... what could we do to prevent a 12 year old girl to think that she can solve her problems by killing her dad and commit suicide with a firearm.

I agree with you about the differences between US and Canada . We were doing pretty good as it was until PET junior politicized the handgun restrictions while dismissing the stats to gain a few points in the polls and apaise the anti gun lobby which has not solved the gang killings still increasing to this day .

As for me... the US at this point has reached the point of no return and we can see the struggle that they have to go through about how to handle it. Their only hope is the introduce background check that might reduce over time the random mass killings, suicide by cop , etc... Gang killings are a different story all together and no laws will be able to fix that until they manage their drug problems so will we .

: All of us on this thread should refocus our efforts to come up with ideas to prevent a kid to have easy access to guns at the age of 12 if unstable, secretive or paranoid instead of debating the gun laws at large

ok. Because honestly the lack of reference to capacity…That’s why Americans use them. With respect to barrel length of coarse there are advantages that why I like my Browning lever action .308 in the bush. The Liberals have the public peeing in the pants over “AR”a…….I’m pretty sure my .308 will blow through body armor too……and just as fast.

Which if it came to me snapping someday. I would grab way before a “AR-15” in .223. But I’d still grab my 12g with #4 shot and slugs before that…..

“Solutions”
GC…..Im wide open. As long as we can say “yep, there’s a weakness in our laws”….and said idea can be reasonably shown to have some beneficial effect. For example the extra background checks….I had no problem with that….

USA
We can belly ache all we like. Last I checked none of us have a vote there……and it’s unlikely anything ever will get done.
Hope and prayers

 

[cunning linguist]

Except way too many mass shooters were legal gun owners until they weren't.

 

[basketcase]

Hopeless.
I didn’t not say that, you just don’t have the reading comprehension. Again, trying to tell people that do…vs you whose experience around guns is getting drunk and that you know better…

DUI
If you stop picking your nose and losing what little grey matter you have left. You might realize that the references are to how that serious problem was handled. “Ban alcohol”….Einstein….go after responsible drivers,? You’ve completely missed that twice now…

NS
Guns smuggled from where?. Do you know much about the event???! Or do you just like looking stupid and flapping your lips…sorry keys…

so much more but, whats the point. You are way beyond reading anything. Why don’t you try that sometime instead of googling best guns and looking the fool.

you have no arguments, bring nothing. But…
/ignored

And look at the excuses. Thanks for trying at least. Sad that you're only argument is I don't shoot animals so I can't have an opinion.

And look at you run away from the gang discussion. Their guns aren't the biggest threat to average Canadians.
Long Island killings suspect has permits for 92 guns, district attorney says

July 14, 2023 - New York architect arrested in Long Island serial killings

A New York architect pleaded not guilty Friday after he was charged with six counts of murder in connection with the deaths of three of the four women known as the "Gilgo Four."

www.cnn.com

 

[basketcase]

The data from the 20th century is that countries with zero guns in the arms of private citizens suffered millions more casualties than from guns used in crimes by/against citizens to each other.



.

Do you think private gun ownership has any impact on wars? Do you think Ukraine stopped Russia because a bunch of people pulled out their hunting rifles?

 

[Steve_Stevens]

Start charging $250 for a single bullet.

 

[basketcase]

.... With respect to barrel length of coarse there are advantages that why I like my Browning lever action .308 in the bush. ...

Not a Semi? Hmm

 

[Not getting younger]

Start charging $250 for a single bullet.

lots of guys reload their own……….

And if they did do that. What happened years ago when they seriously jacked the prices for smokes. The black market from the states ( which is where most of our commercially sold ammunition come from) and reserves…….
/shrug

As is today all cities have the power to ban hand guns. But none have….”funny that”…

Our death per capita is 2
Suicides about half and gang related about 35% think it is. So how much of a problem do we really have?

Still waiting for anyone to address how we combatted drinking and driving which today still kills about 4-5 times more people. Let alone drugs etc….

anyone have “good” answers for that?

 

[Not getting younger]

Seems to me Canadians by and large seriously need perspective.

Opioids alone (gang related) killed 7,400 people in 2022. Drunk drivers typically 1,500 per year. That’s just the dead. Not counting oh so much more.

gun homicide 2022 ( include gang related). 297

so 9,000/year no one cares much about. But every screams in terror over less than 300

Number of homicides by shooting in Canada | Statista

In 2022, the total number of homicides by shooting in Canada increased by 45 numbers (+15.1 percent) since 2021.

www.statista.com

 

[shack]

Still waiting for anyone to address how we combatted drinking and driving which today still kills about 4-5 times more people. Let alone drugs etc….

anyone have “good” answers for that?

What about this?

Seems to me Canadians by and large seriously need perspective.

Opioids alone (gang related) killed 7,400 people in 2022. Drunk drivers typically 1,500 per year. That’s just the dead. Not counting oh so much more.

gun homicide 2022 ( include gang related). 297

so 9,000/year no one cares much about. But every screams in terror over less than 300

What about that?

I think you have your MWA degree.

Masters of What About.

 

[shack]

Seems to me Canadians by and large seriously need perspective.

Opioids alone (gang related) killed 7,400 people in 2022. Drunk drivers typically 1,500 per year. That’s just the dead. Not counting oh so much more.

gun homicide 2022 ( include gang related). 297

so 9,000/year no one cares much about. But every screams in terror over less than 300

What about that?

 

[cunning linguist]

Not a Semi? Hmm

Meanwhile, fish cops around the country are being issued assault rifles to spray at injured caribou....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/rifles-b-c-conservation-officer-service-ministry-of-forests-1.6641517

 

[basketcase]

Seems to me Canadians by and large seriously need perspective.

Opioids alone (gang related) killed 7,400 people in 2022. Drunk drivers typically 1,500 per year. That’s just the dead. Not counting oh so much more.

gun homicide 2022 ( include gang related). 297

so 9,000/year no one cares much about. But every screams in terror over less than 300

Number of homicides by shooting in Canada | Statista

In 2022, the total number of homicides by shooting in Canada increased by 45 numbers (+15.1 percent) since 2021.

www.statista.com

Back to wanting oversight on guns ignored because other things kill people too?

Opioids are something that directly affects the person making the choice. No one is going to go opioid up a school or shopping mall.

And people convicted (or even suspected) of DUI get their license suspended and possibly car towed. Is it wrong to apply that to guns? The "guns rights" activists are massively opposed to red flag laws.

 

[basketcase]

Meanwhile, fish cops around the country are being issued assault rifles to spray at injured caribou....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/rifles-b-c-conservation-officer-service-ministry-of-forests-1.6641517

Wait, professionals hired for the job of eliminating animals? I thought we were talking about hunters.

 

[cunning linguist]

Wait, professionals hired for the job of eliminating animals? I thought we were talking about hunters.

Is that what a conservation officer is hired to do?

 

[Not getting younger]

Is that what a conservation officer is hired to do?

i don’t have a problem them being armed with them.They can run into conflicts with both armed people and dangerous animals.

Can’t help but notice they get to call them anything but scary assault rifles. Some the oblivious public wouldn’t pick up on.

 

[basketcase]

Is that what a conservation officer is hired to do?

So you trust the same government officials you fear are coming to grab your guns?

And sorry but your argument is like saying that the government buys tanks for the army so tanks should be available for all.

 

[cunning linguist]

So you trust the same government officials you fear are coming to grab your guns?

And sorry but your argument is like saying that the government buys tanks for the army so tanks should be available for all.

According to you, these are allegedly poor hunting rifles because they never appeared in some list you Googled. Yet here they are, being issued to those working in the wilderness; one of their tasks being to euthanize injured animals.

Wonder why they weren't issued bolt action rifles; the government must hold its employees to a lower standard of accuracy.