Work from home opinions, the good, the bad or scam?

[Geee]

As @Geee said, boss doesn't care as long as my shit gets done. Take a nap, do laundry and still finish. What that means is you are not 100% utilized.

trying for 100% utilization is how you get burned out employees and high employee turnover.

If I take a nap, it's because I'm frazzled and need to not do work for a bit to cool my brain off as I mentioned in another response I'm neurodivergent, and that time is made up later. But even normies cannot work at full blast at all times. Productivity drops over extended periods of activity.

Like, I don't need to code from 9 till 5 I can put in a few hours of it, do my meetings, take a nap, take care of other responsibilities my job needs, help my stores and co workers. and then put in another hours worth of code a 7, 8,9 or midnight if get a particularly brilliant eureka moment.

or I can go, you know what, I'm going to go take care of some personal shit from 2-5 and then tonight when all the stores are closed I'm going to spend 3 hours doing maintenance on their systems so not only do I get that project done, I do it in a way where I don't have to go, "Hey, I'm going to shut down 2/3s of your non sale related operations for 20 minutes to an hour because reasons." Bonus for me cause I don't have to talk to anyone, bonus for them because they don't lose productivity.

 

[K Douglas]

I am against working from home. I believe it results in a loss of productivity and efficiency. And some people just need to be supervised in order to get their jobs done adequately.
But the most important reason I think going to an office is beneficial is the human interaction. In person meetings and work sessions are essential tools of communication that you just don't get over a zoom call.
I do get the work/life balance argument so I wouldn't be against companies using a hybrid scheme say 2 weeks in office then 1 week at home. Gives employees flexibility and frees up commute time.
And as one who deals with CRA on a regular basis I can attest that since they were working from home, efficiency dropped over 50% easy. A Notice of Objection for instance that normally took 3-6 months to process is now taking 6-9 months.

 

[krealtarron]

I am against working from home. I believe it results in a loss of productivity and efficiency. And some people just need to be supervised in order to get their jobs done adequately.
But the most important reason I think going to an office is beneficial is the human interaction. In person meetings and work sessions are essential tools of communication that you just don't get over a zoom call.
I do get the work/life balance argument so I wouldn't be against companies using a hybrid scheme say 2 weeks in office then 1 week at home. Gives employees flexibility and frees up commute time.
And as one who deals with CRA on a regular basis I can attest that since they were working from home, efficiency dropped over 50% easy. A Notice of Objection for instance that normally took 3-6 months to process is now taking 6-9 months.

How did you measure productivity and efficiency?

I prefer not to go to office because I dont want to meet other humans or put up with commuting. I prefer only talking to them on a need basis, and this helps my mental health, because I dont have to deal with assholes constantly.

I have never been more productive than when I WFH. I never get anything done when I go into work because half the time I am just running from one conference room to another and at 5 I gotta get back home.

 

[Geee]

And as one who deals with CRA on a regular basis I can attest that since they were working from home, efficiency dropped over 50% easy. A Notice of Objection for instance that normally took 3-6 months to process is now taking 6-9 months.

CRA seems to disagree with you.

Processing times and complexity levels - Income tax and GST/HST objections - Canada.ca

This page shows processing times and complexity levels for filing an objection. It also shows income tax and GST/HST objections

www.canada.ca

 

[K Douglas]

CRA seems to disagree with you.

Processing times and complexity levels - Income tax and GST/HST objections - Canada.ca

This page shows processing times and complexity levels for filing an objection. It also shows income tax and GST/HST objections

www.canada.ca

They do. How so? From your link:
155 days (5 months) for low complexity objections
313 days(10 months) for medium complexity objections

Take an average that is 7.5 months. Right where I said it was taking (6-9 months)
Historically that average would have been 4.5 months (3-6 months)

 

[JohnnyWishbone]

People should be judged on results and not if their ass is on a chair in the office. Those who slack off at home and don't get results should be canned just the same as if they were in the office and producing crap results. Companies could save a load of money on real estate. I get the government departments are forcing their staff into the office because of the direction for trying to get business vibrant again in the business districts and so their rich buddies who own REITS etc. can profit...but the employees are told they need to come in for valuable in-person collaboration (and catching Covid)...they didn't think about in person collaboration when they off-shored work to India and China!!

With staff and resources I need to deal with, when they're in the office 3-4 times per week I find them available less...I can't get them before 9am or after 4pm...when they were working from home they're available earlier and later and there's more flexibility. Also all I see when I am in the office people talking to each other via collaboration tools and not face to face! Taking into account high cost of living, violence on the TTC (many of my colleagues and staff take public transport) when it's down to my discretion I let people work from home as much as possible but always remind them they need to deliver results.
If businesses are to ask employees back into the office then they also need to accept the risk to productivity with their employees being sick more often due to Covid, Monkey pox, daily TTC stabbings and whatever else is brewing out there...it's not the same world it was pre-Covid.

Isn't there some sort of law that Canadian companies need to justify why they can't employ a Canadian before off-shoring the work? I guess there's ways around it...hence the off-shoring that happened a lot about 15-20 years ago here in the IT industry and the whole H1B visa scam in the US

 

[Geee]

They do. How so? From your link:
155 days (5 months) for low complexity objections
313 days(10 months) for medium complexity objections

Take an average that is 7.5 months. Right where I said it was taking (6-9 months)
Historically that average would have been 4.5 months (3-6 months)

They are hitting their evaluated target times 81% and 72% of the time which is based on multiple factors like staffing and number of requests, etc. and is updated frequently, not just whether or not someone is working from home or in a box somewhere.

 

[explorerzip]

I am against working from home. I believe it results in a loss of productivity and efficiency. And some people just need to be supervised in order to get their jobs done adequately.
But the most important reason I think going to an office is beneficial is the human interaction. In person meetings and work sessions are essential tools of communication that you just don't get over a zoom call.
I do get the work/life balance argument so I wouldn't be against companies using a hybrid scheme say 2 weeks in office then 1 week at home. Gives employees flexibility and frees up commute time.
And as one who deals with CRA on a regular basis I can attest that since they were working from home, efficiency dropped over 50% easy. A Notice of Objection for instance that normally took 3-6 months to process is now taking 6-9 months.

If employees need constant supervision in office or at home then they're not particuarly good. The question for the management then is what happened over time that caused them to change? Most people are eager beavers when they start, but become jaded over time and slack. I would also question a company's culture where so many people beome disengaged and need to be supervised all the time.

We all need human interaction in various degrees even the introverted types, but not necessarily to get work done. Again, it depends on the exact nature of your work.

I also worked in a hybrid arrangement and liked it too. It gave me a chance to get out of the house, meet up with friends during lunch or just walk around the neighborhood around my office. It's great when the weather is nice, but shit in the winter with all the brown water at every intersection downtown. I would have hated a hybrid arrangement in the business parks in Mississauga or Markham where you have to drive everywhere.

 

[Robert Mugabe]

scam

 

[dvous11]

If I was a worker I’d be in favour of WFH, especially those jobs which are endless admin style task oriented work 5days/week till your 65 slavery sentences.
Anyone in this category would of course want to take advantage to increase the personal liberty and flexibility portion of the equation.
if I were an employer with office space and showing up to the office daily I’d expect workers to do the same as part of the accountability factor and to create a sense of professional social community.

 

[hard dick tony]

I am against working from home. I believe it results in a loss of productivity and efficiency. And some people just need to be supervised in order to get their jobs done adequately.
But the most important reason I think going to an office is beneficial is the human interaction. In person meetings and work sessions are essential tools of communication that you just don't get over a zoom call.
I do get the work/life balance argument so I wouldn't be against companies using a hybrid scheme say 2 weeks in office then 1 week at home. Gives employees flexibility and frees up commute time.
And as one who deals with CRA on a regular basis I can attest that since they were working from home, efficiency dropped over 50% easy. A Notice of Objection for instance that normally took 3-6 months to process is now taking 6-9 months.

You're against WFH full time - no argument there. What are your thoughts on 2-3 days a week in the office, typically by department and then said department WFH the same days as well? This has work really well for my company and our productivity has gone up with minimal addition to the head count.

 

[K Douglas]

You're against WFH full time - no argument there. What are your thoughts on 2-3 days a week in the office, typically by department and then said department WFH the same days as well? This has work really well for my company and our productivity has gone up with minimal addition to the head count.

Precisely the hybrid model I was talking about albeit on a shorter scale. I have several friends who are doing this and it seems to work well.
I would also say its harder to work from home if you don't have a proper office setup. Working at a dining room table or kitchen counter is not productive.

 

[hard dick tony]

Precisely the hybrid model I was talking about albeit on a shorter scale. I have several friends who are doing this and it seems to work well.
I would also say its harder to work from home if you don't have a proper office setup. Working at a dining room table or kitchen counter is not productive.

Funny thing is, most of the people I know who Hybrid or fully WFH have *better* setups at home then they do in the office. Bigger desks, better monitors, their own desktop computer if the company permits, etc.

Even worse when they offer to bring in their own equipment to the office, out of pocket, the management says NO - it's better to have consistent equipment throughout the shared desks - even if that's a single 24" monitor and a dock.

Same applies to full time in office staff jammed into cubical land with again - single 24" monitor with a dock and a shitty basic office chair from Staples - with no option to request upgrades or permission to bring in your own equipment.

 

[james t kirk]

Well working in an office is often subject to abuse by management at various companies so lets just not allow working in office either. In fact lets ban working altogeter because corporations abuse employees all the time through all the various holes in labor laws they've poked into the system with government bribery.

WFH has a number of advantages first and foremost being not being stuck in traffic for an hour+ twice a day, time that is unpaid by the way even though itnis time wasted specifically for work.

It's less stressful on work/life balance because you can deal with life shit and work shit in parallel and still get all your work done because you're not limited to "I have to be in the office from X to Y(+ travel time) so work has to be done in that box. If something comes up you can prioritize. And then just add on the time you "missed" at the end of the day as long as your work gets done.

Hell one a personal note I will go do loads of laundry, make a meal and even take naps on the couch during my "work hours" my boss knows this but as long as my shit gets done and I'm available when called or pinged he is totally fine with it. It just means my schedule slides around a bit Instead of being a 9-5 thing

I go to the office once a week (+ emergencies since I'm the IT guy.) occasionally more If I'm doing store equipment builts but even then a major part of those I can do remote.

It also means I have not used a single fucking sick day since the pandemic because I'm going to be near my computer anyway so unless it requires a doctor why the fuck wouldn't I justvrespond to that email


And for those of you going "well if your jobs can be done remotely then why don't I offshore and pay peanuts." You can... you'll be an exploitative piece of shit that supports slave labor and doesn't contribute to the local economy and job market like all those companies that have offshored factory work and humanity will hate you for it... but you can... you've had the ability to long before Covid.

Offshoring desk jobs has been a thing since the early 2000's just know that over all you generally get what you pay for though.

So here's the real question... if the work gets done, why not make your employees life less miserable by not forcing them to waste 2-3 hours of their day hauling their tired asses to and from an office on their dime both time and gas wise and help their work life balance in the process.

And the answer to this by clueless bosstards whenever it's asked is "Derrrr, Well how do I know they are actually working if I can't look at them in the office?" BECAUSE THE WORK FUCKING GETS DONE YOU OVERPAID USELESS FUCKTARDS.

Now if you'll excuse me, it's 2:40, I'm going to ride over to get groceries and alcohol, before my "work day" is over and then maybe even have a wank and my work for today is STILL going to get done, because I'm not stuck in a fucking office.

Because:

1. It's not getting done. People working from home are just coasting. Management knows it. When the goose is away, the gander will play.

2. It's not productive.

3. If they aren't coasting, many are now "toggling", i.e. doing 2 jobs at the same time. We had a guy working for us who was doing that. He was stupid enough to work in the same industry. Busted and fired.

4. People in an office environment are able to work with each other, bounce ideas off each other and build relationships and connections. Working from home in your pajamas gains you none of that.

5. Quality of work is noticeably worse.

6. Zoom meetings lack the ability to read body language, judge non verbal reactions, and people are constantly interupting each other.

7. And yes, if you can do your job at home and you insist on working from home, I know you're coasting and why should I not outsource your job to the guy from Nicaragua?

 

[james t kirk]

So you pay them 100K for them to come to office. Not for the work that they do. Am I understanding you correctly?

Nope, I pay them to produce, to work as a team, to be creative and to work with clients and you can't do any of that working from home.

But if you think you're going to force my hand so you can coast at home (and I know you are), then I will fire you and just find a guy in Nicarauga for 4 bucks an hour and get the same result. I can take the savings by outsourcing the jobs of coasters to Nicarauga and save a bundle and pay the people that we do have who want to work in an office and build relationships with clients MORE money. It's a win win situation. We fire coasters, outsource their jobs and pass the savings to the guys who come in to work. Everyone is happy.

Freshii under fire for paying workers $3.75/hr in Nicaragua

Freshii has come under fire for outsourcing virtual cashier jobs to Nicaraguans, paying $3.75 per hour, a move labour experts have called 'disgusting.'

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[krealtarron]

Nope, I pay them to produce, to work as a team, to be creative and to work with clients and you can't do any of that working from home.

But if you think you're going to force my hand so you can coast at home (and I know you are), then I will fire you and just find a guy in Nicarauga for 4 bucks an hour and get the same result. I can take the savings by outsourcing the jobs of coasters to Nicarauga and save a bundle and pay the people that we do have who want to work in an office and build relationships with clients MORE money. It's a win win situation. We fire coasters, outsource their jobs and pass the savings to the guys who come in to work. Everyone is happy.

Freshii under fire for paying workers $3.75/hr in Nicaragua

Freshii has come under fire for outsourcing virtual cashier jobs to Nicaraguans, paying $3.75 per hour, a move labour experts have called 'disgusting.'

www.ctvnews.ca

Often employers overstate "creativity" and "productivity".

What exactly does your team do that they NEED to be in office to be productive? Your clients are not working in your office, so most likely you are collaborating with them via conference calls. So what difference does it make if those client relationships are managed from home as opposed to the office? If an employee can work from home, be just as productive from home, why is that coasting? You can coast from office too.

What line of work is this that teamwork, collaboration and creativity are not possible from home? I ask this because my job primarily consists of meetings, emails and powerpoint slides. All I need is a desk, a computer and an internet connection. Is your line of work any different?

Also, if you can pay a guy in Nicaragua 4 bucks an hour and get the job done, then why are you paying your employees 100K? What business sense does that make?

 

[krealtarron]

Because:

1. It's not getting done. People working from home are just coasting. Management knows it. When the goose is away, the gander will play.

2. It's not productive.

3. If they aren't coasting, many are now "toggling", i.e. doing 2 jobs at the same time. We had a guy working for us who was doing that. He was stupid enough to work in the same industry. Busted and fired.

4. People in an office environment are able to work with each other, bounce ideas off each other and build relationships and connections. Working from home in your pajamas gains you none of that.

5. Quality of work is noticeably worse.

6. Zoom meetings lack the ability to read body language, judge non verbal reactions, and people are constantly interupting each other.

7. And yes, if you can do your job at home and you insist on working from home, I know you're coasting and why should I not outsource your job to the guy from Nicaragua?

This is utter nonsense. "People working form home are just coasting" - how do you know? How are you measuring productivity? For example, you are working in an office right now I presume. Yet here you are on TERB. So here is an example of someone coasting from the office

What exactly do you mean people in office are able to "work with each other"? Are they sitting at each other's desks pointing at their computers or are they sitting in their cubicles doing their jobs? If so, why cant that desk be moved to the home and the same thing be done from home?

What do you mean quality of work is noticeably worse? Again I ask - what is this line of work where quality is better if done from the office? If they are writing a word document do you mean to say that working from home they tend to make grammatical errors as opposed to working in a cubicle in an office?

I have worked remote for the past 10 years. I have worked at home and signed SOWs worth millions with clients, just presenting everything via zoom. Not once have I had any issues with quality, communication or collaboration. Our entire firm works on that basis and we are global.

This is just your political nonsense. Not the truth.

 

[shack]

This is utter nonsense. "People working form home are just coasting" - how do you know?

Because it's human nature.

Just like it's human nature that when you have co-workers seeing how hard you're working and collaborating and hustling and/or a boss possibly looking over your shoulder, to mind your P's and Q's and max out your efforts. Your efforts are on display for all to see the whole time you're at work.

That's just the way it is.

 

[krealtarron]

Because it's human nature.

Just like it's human nature that when you have co-workers seeing how hard you're working and collaborating and hustling and/or a boss possibly looking over your shoulder, to mind your P's and Q's.

This is not true at all.

As I mentioned I have and my entire firm, works from home. We have for over 10 years. Not once has productivity or coasting been a problem. I have however seen many coast their jobs at the work place. Coasting and working from home are unrelated.

Also it is not true that co-workers will be motivated seeing how hard others are working - this is just a naive assumption at best. People work as hard as they want to. A boss looking over your shoulder is very bad work culture, and is slave driving and micro managing, which should be actively discouraged.

 

[explorerzip]

Because it's human nature.

Just like it's human nature that when you have co-workers seeing how hard you're working and collaborating and hustling and/or a boss possibly looking over your shoulder, to mind your P's and Q's and max out your efforts. Your efforts are on display for all to see the whole time you're at work.

That's just the way it is.

How do you explain self-employed people like real-estate agents, financial advisers, or any outdoor sales job? They don't have co-workers or bosses watching over them. There are clearly many mediocre self-employed people too, but plenty of top performers that make it by having a high degree of self discipline.