Justin was right after all

[DinkleMouse]

More word today from the CBC that 11 candidates had money funneled to them from the PRC consulate. And the PM was told about it.

Don't you want to know who they were?

The media are reporting that they have seen a CSIS report claiming there were 11. Has CSIS confirmed? Trudeau says he isn't aware. But there is an investigation into it.

So yes, if it's true I would indeed like to know. If it's not true though, then there's nothing to tell. Are you saying your faith in the media is so strong that they're never be wrong?

 

[Butler1000]

The media are reporting that they have seen a CSIS report claiming there were 11. Has CSIS confirmed? Trudeau says he isn't aware. But there is an investigation into it.

So yes, if it's true I would indeed like to know. If it's not true though, then there's nothing to tell. Are you saying your faith in the media is so strong that they're never be wrong?

CBC is one I tend to trust when they criticize the government. They are biting the hand that feeds them so have zero to gain.

 

[DinkleMouse]

CBC is one I tend to trust when they criticize the government. They are biting the hand that feeds them so have zero to gain.

I didn't say lying, I said wrong. The CBC can report on a document they haven't seen in good faith and still be wrong.

CBC reported there's an investigation into it. It sounds, however, like you want to skip investigation and jump straight to judgement and condemnation. Yeah. I'm not getting on that bandwagon.

 

[six_pac]

Unhinged is used way to frequently, but this might be an appropriate time to drop this. What the hell are you talking about? You realize the Russias (and Nazis) didn't have to freeze bank accounts. They just disappeared critics. Did that happen to the Free-Dumb convoys?

As for the violent and armed protesters, what happened at Coutts?

Police Make ‘Freedom Convoy’ Arrests, Find Guns, Body Armour, and Machete

Alberta RCMP say they've found and arrested a group of hardcore protesters at the “trucker” border blockade in Alberta who were armed to the teeth and ready for violence.

www.vice.com

So, while there might not have been firearms in Ottawa, their expressed goal was to have the Governor General kick Trudeau out of office and negotiate with them for a new government...which is basically the opposite of what happens in our democracy. That isn't hyperbole, that was the stated aim when this thing started over a year ago.

Your words not mine

"There was a violent armed faction with demands to forcibly remove the PM from office."

And than you go to say

"So, while there might not have been firearms in Ottawa"

You are so full of your own shit, and as typycal Libtard dont care about anyone elses well being or opinion, since guess what it is everyone else around you that is dumb and ignorant.

 

[Butler1000]

I didn't say lying, I said wrong. The CBC can report on a document they haven't seen in good faith and still be wrong.

CBC reported there's an investigation into it. It sounds, however, like you want to skip investigation and jump straight to judgement and condemnation. Yeah. I'm not getting on that bandwagon.

When the investigation is kept out of the public eye yes. I will ask questions and want answers. That is the point. Trudeau at first said there isn't aproblem, now suddenly we need a special Rapporteur. But no need for the public?

Sorry, this involves money from the PRC. In an election. It must be public.

As I said. The CBC must have something. Its too big not to have a lot of due diligence. And the government would lie.

 

[bver_hunter]

CBC is one I tend to trust when they criticize the government. They are biting the hand that feeds them so have zero to gain.

When the CBC posed pressing question to Pee Pee Poilievre, he condemned them as "biased" and refused to answer their questions. So, we should trust the CBC when they try to dig the truth out of the opposition as well!!

 

[DinkleMouse]

When the investigation is kept out of the public eye yes.

Most investigations are kept out of the public's eyes. The results are then made available to the public. There's good reason for this: the public likes to jump to conclusions and that often has massive ramifications.

I will ask questions and want answers.

The problem is you are acting entitled to information before an investigation is complete after demonstrating you have a bias to accept a specific conclusion.

That is the point. Trudeau at first said there isn't aproblem, now suddenly we need a special Rapporteur. But no need for the public?

*sigh* This again. You seem to be having a hard time keeping things straight. There are three topics been discussed. The first is the suspected interference in which up to11 politicians may have recieved funds. The second is the case of one politician definitely getting funds. The third is the issue of interference at large. You seem to be taking comments about the first and second second and applying them to the third. That's hardly accurate or fair.

The intelligence report about the second case, the specific instances of 1 candidate receiving PRC funds, indicated it had no significant impact on the outcome and that is what Trudeau was quoting. He did not say election interference in general we not a concern. In fact, he has been saying, for years, that it is. If, as you claim, he said it's not a concern, why would he have formed a task force to look into it and established a policy and committee to handle it?

The special investigation being undertaken more with a rapporteur is in regards to the first case, looking into the suspected 11 cases. Of those we have heard very little.

So again: the known case where a specific politician recieved funds has been reported by the intelligence committee to have had no effect on the outcome, and Trudeau relaying that this is what the intelligence committee said is not the same as him saying interference doesn't matter. The forming of a new committee to investigate the 11 is, essentially, what you said many many posts ago you wanted him to do. The others things you said many many posts again that you wanted him to do he had already done years ago when he first began openly discussing election interference.


So no, he never said election interference wasn't important, save he's done everything you said you wanted him to do. Until now, when you've changed your tune and decided the investigation needs to be public. But that wasn't in your initial list of things you wanted done, which makes this sound like you just won't be happy with this and will keep moving the goal post.

Sorry, this involves money from the PRC. In an election. It must be public.

Why "must"? As soon as the politicians are named, people like you will condemn them, and even if the investigation later concludes it was false, it may be too late. If your were suspected of a crime, that investigation wouldn't be public either. Why should this? Because it involves the PRC? Why is the PRC special?

As I said. The CBC must have something. Its too big not to have a lot of due diligence.

They literally don't have to do due diligence. Have you not read the articles? "According to a document from..." It isn't even a CBC story, they're citing Global News who broke the story in November. It would be Global who would have needed to do due diligence, but again citing a report, if that report exists, is still journalism. I have no doubt Global has seen the document or has substantial information that it exists and says what they claimed it does. But again, just because the media is reporting it doesn't mean it's true. It's very possible the report is wrong.

Why aren't you upset at Global or CBC for not making this document and it's source public if you're so convinced the public should know? Better yet, any idea why they haven't? I have an idea: they don't want to expose information that may be harmful to National Security unless it's verified by the very investigation that's underway.

And the government would lie.

Governments lie all the time. What's strange, though, as that you seem to forget that this report came from the government. The media is reporting on a document prepared by a government agency for the government, and you're so convinced this this government report is valid you want to expose everyone involved before an investigation is conducted and your argument for that is your don't trust the government.

You trust the media here and argue the government will lie about the truth, and yet the media you trust got the information from the government that you claim are liars. Do you not see the insanity here?

 

[Butler1000]

Most investigations are kept out of the public's eyes. The results are then made available to the public. There's good reason for this: the public likes to jump to conclusions and that often has massive ramifications.



The problem is you are acting entitled to information before an investigation is complete after demonstrating you have a bias to accept a specific conclusion.



*sigh* This again. You seem to be having a hard time keeping things straight. There are three topics been discussed. The first is the suspected interference in which up to11 politicians may have recieved funds. The second is the case of one politician definitely getting funds. The third is the issue of interference at large. You seem to be taking comments about the first and second second and applying them to the third. That's hardly accurate or fair.

The intelligence report about the second case, the specific instances of 1 candidate receiving PRC funds, indicated it had no significant impact on the outcome and that is what Trudeau was quoting. He did not say election interference in general we not a concern. In fact, he has been saying, for years, that it is. If, as you claim, he said it's not a concern, why would he have formed a task force to look into it and established a policy and committee to handle it?

The special investigation being undertaken more with a rapporteur is in regards to the first case, looking into the suspected 11 cases. Of those we have heard very little.

So again: the known case where a specific politician recieved funds has been reported by the intelligence committee to have had no effect on the outcome, and Trudeau relaying that this is what the intelligence committee said is not the same as him saying interference doesn't matter. The forming of a new committee to investigate the 11 is, essentially, what you said many many posts ago you wanted him to do. The others things you said many many posts again that you wanted him to do he had already done years ago when he first began openly discussing election interference.


So no, he never said election interference wasn't important, save he's done everything you said you wanted him to do. Until now, when you've changed your tune and decided the investigation needs to be public. But that wasn't in your initial list of things you wanted done, which makes this sound like you just won't be happy with this and will keep moving the goal post.




Why "must"? As soon as the politicians are named, people like you will condemn them, and even if the investigation later concludes it was false, it may be too late. If your were suspected of a crime, that investigation wouldn't be public either. Why should this? Because it involves the PRC? Why is the PRC special?



They literally don't have to do due diligence. Have you not read the articles? "According to a document from..." It isn't even a CBC story, they're citing Global News who broke the story in November. It would be Global who would have needed to do due diligence, but again citing a report, if that report exists, is still journalism. I have no doubt Global has seen the document or has substantial information that it exists and says what they claimed it does. But again, just because the media is reporting it doesn't mean it's true. It's very possible the report is wrong.

Why aren't you upset at Global or CBC for not making this document and it's source public if you're so convinced the public should know? Better yet, any idea why they haven't? I have an idea: they don't want to expose information that may be harmful to National Security unless it's verified by the very investigation that's underway.



Governments lie all the time. What's strange, though, as that you seem to forget that this report came from the government. The media is reporting on a document prepared by a government agency for the government, and you're so convinced this this government report is valid you want to expose everyone involved before an investigation is conducted and your argument for that is your don't trust the government.

You trust the media here and argue the government will lie about the truth, and yet the media you trust got the information from the government that you claim are liars. Do you not see the insanity here?

Um. What are all these intelligence reports but in fact investigations? They HAVE THE INFORMATION. Why do they need another political hack to look at it?

Release the information.

 

[Butler1000]

When the CBC posed pressing question to Pee Pee Poilievre, he condemned them as "biased" and refused to answer their questions. So, we should trust the CBC when they try to dig the truth out of the opposition as well!!

Which has nothing to do with the topic. But thanks for interjecting.

 

[jcpro]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1634010283420033024

 

[silentkisser]

Your words not mine

"There was a violent armed faction with demands to forcibly remove the PM from office."

And than you go to say

"So, while there might not have been firearms in Ottawa"

You are so full of your own shit, and as typycal Libtard dont care about anyone elses well being or opinion, since guess what it is everyone else around you that is dumb and ignorant.

It's easy to criticize in hindsight. But after they found firearms and body armour at the Coutts protest, who knows what the folks in Ottawa had. I will admit, I was a tad hyperbolic about the violent part...they didn't appear to physically harm anyone, just harass and intimidate local residents while keeping them on edge by blasting airhorns at all hours of the day.

But, at the end of the day, an independent review said the government was justified in using the Emergency Act. Did innocent people get caught up in it? Probably. The powers it gives is sort of a blunt instrument. But, the bigger issue is, why did the conservative government of Doug Ford sit on his hands and do nothing? If he showed leadership right from the get-go, sending the OPP to back up the Ottawa police, this probably could have been averted and never have required the Emergency Act.

Finally, I do care about others and their opinions. It's only the dumb and ignorant that cannot show any empathy for what happened. While I felt the Freedom Convoy was....well....misplaced, I understood what was behind it. Nobody liked COVID. It was an unprecedented public health crisis that we haven't seen since probably 1918 and the so-called Spanish Flu. But there was so much misinformation or conspiracy theories about it all that has led to impotent rage and unreasonable behaviour. It appears to me that you just want to slam Trudeau (and lord knows he is far from perfect, he could have handled this better as well) regardless of what actually was going on. It comes off like how Tucker Carlson is trying to show the January 6th insurrection wasn't that big of a deal, trying to mitigate the damning evidence of what actually happened by cherry picking a few camera angles that show peaceful crowds....

 

[six_pac]

It's easy to criticize in hindsight. But after they found firearms and body armour at the Coutts protest, who knows what the folks in Ottawa had. I will admit, I was a tad hyperbolic about the violent part...they didn't appear to physically harm anyone, just harass and intimidate local residents while keeping them on edge by blasting airhorns at all hours of the day.

But, at the end of the day, an independent review said the government was justified in using the Emergency Act. Did innocent people get caught up in it? Probably. The powers it gives is sort of a blunt instrument. But, the bigger issue is, why did the conservative government of Doug Ford sit on his hands and do nothing? If he showed leadership right from the get-go, sending the OPP to back up the Ottawa police, this probably could have been averted and never have required the Emergency Act.

Finally, I do care about others and their opinions. It's only the dumb and ignorant that cannot show any empathy for what happened. While I felt the Freedom Convoy was....well....misplaced, I understood what was behind it. Nobody liked COVID. It was an unprecedented public health crisis that we haven't seen since probably 1918 and the so-called Spanish Flu. But there was so much misinformation or conspiracy theories about it all that has led to impotent rage and unreasonable behaviour. It appears to me that you just want to slam Trudeau (and lord knows he is far from perfect, he could have handled this better as well) regardless of what actually was going on. It comes off like how Tucker Carlson is trying to show the January 6th insurrection wasn't that big of a deal, trying to mitigate the damning evidence of what actually happened by cherry picking a few camera angles that show peaceful crowds....

To all Honesty i dont care for Trudeau, actually Liberals/NDP or the CONSERVATIVES, my beleif is that they are all a bunch of 2 faced slimy motherfuckers, that have put the ppl of this country at eachothers throats, while working closely together in order to undermine this country.

Only proof I have is that every government we have had in the last 40 uears has done so.ething or the other tl fuck us royaly.

Now as someone who was there in the bitter cold, I personally saw the little show with confederate flags and it was pathetic atempt by a third party a failed false flag opp, someone had fun with that one.

You say intimidating, the only thing intimidating out there were the threats that he acted on at the end by the prime minister, otherwise it was more or less a family picnic.

All this said do i beleive this was random, a ppls protest, no I do not it was organised and financed, most likley by the conservatives, no protest anywhere in the world is random, and it just happens, there are always leaders, and those leaders get money from somwhere for the food, logistics, shitters etc...

Protests were anti Trudeau and mainly anti lockdown and COVID 19 is a nasty disease that unfortunately there is no cure for and the Vaccination Nazziiiss did little to curb it. It is still around by the way, just iy is old we are waiting for a new and hip thing for the TV masters to jump on.

 

[DinkleMouse]

Um. What are all these intelligence reports but in fact investigations? They HAVE THE INFORMATION. Why do they need another political hack to look at it?

Release the information.

So you said you wanted Trudeau to start an investigation, but now you say you don't need an investigation. Just as I said: moving the goalposts.

We don't know what content the report has. It may justify an investigation. And despite your claim that the report should be made public, I will again direct you to the Security of Information Act (which replaced the Official Secrets Act and is still commonly called that).

As I said, you clearly have an axe to grind and no doubt any politician named you would immediately call to resign regardless of what the report or an investigation concludes, which is exactly why I don't think the report should be made public. The public should not be empowered to be judge and jury.

 

[Butler1000]

So you said you wanted Trudeau to start an investigation, but now you say you don't need an investigation. Just as I said: moving the goalposts.

We don't know what content the report has. It may justify an investigation. And despite your claim that the report should be made public, I will again direct you to the Security of Information Act (which replaced the Official Secrets Act and is still commonly called that).

As I said, you clearly have an axe to grind and no doubt any politician named you would immediately call to resign regardless of what the report or an investigation concludes, which is exactly why I don't think the report should be made public. The public should not be empowered to be judge and jury.

I said I want a PUBLIC inquiry, now that its been released. You see the problem is really that Trudeau didn't take it serioysly, which resulted in money being funneled. The public has a right to know WHO.

And the PUBLIC IS THE JURY. That the fucking basis of a democracy. We are the bosses. We get the information. We decide through both elections and protest and pressure whether they stay in.

Cripes sakes, you don't let the criminals run the courtroom.

 

[bver_hunter]

Which has nothing to do with the topic. But thanks for interjecting.

Well then you came up with your two cents about the CBC that had nothing to do with the topic. You scored an own goal!!

 

[DinkleMouse]

I said I want a PUBLIC inquiry, now that its been released. You see the problem is really that Trudeau didn't take it serioysly, which resulted in money being funneled.

Do you didn't. You said, "Shut down the fake police stations. Deport people traced to on Canadain soil espionage activities. Hire hackers to actively go after overseas posting farms. Build laws on social media sites to drmand info on foreign actors. Look into foreign donations." That last one is what they're doing. You didn't say make it public.

The public has a right to know WHO.

The public has a right to know WHO if it happened. What is what the investigation is to look into.

And the PUBLIC IS THE JURY. That the fucking basis of a democracy.

The public get to determine guilt or innocence in the absence of an investigation to uncover data? Bullshit. Clearly you want the name so you can condemn these people, whether it was true or not.

We are the bosses. We get the information. We decide through both elections and protest and pressure whether they stay in.

Clearly your opinion is wrong. Because all these things that you say happen are not happening.

Cripes sakes, you don't let the criminals run the courtroom.

Nor do you let the court of public opinion determine guilt or innocence before investigations are even conducted and evidence presented.

 

[Butler1000]

Do you didn't. You said, "Shut down the fake police stations. Deport people traced to on Canadain soil espionage activities. Hire hackers to actively go after overseas posting farms. Build laws on social media sites to drmand info on foreign actors. Look into foreign donations." That last one is what they're doing. You didn't say make it public.



The public has a right to know WHO if it happened. What is what the investigation is to look into.



The public get to determine guilt or innocence in the absence of an investigation to uncover data? Bullshit. Clearly you want the name so you can condemn these people, whether it was true or not.



Clearly your opinion is wrong. Because all these things that you say happen are not happening.



Nor do you let the court of public opinion determine guilt or innocence before investigations are even conducted and evidence presented.

Dude. The investigation is DONE. Thats what the two intelligence agencies did. And reported it to the government. Twice. Who ignored it.

The purpose of a public inquiry isn't to determine if the PRC interfered. They did. Or if they gave money to candidates. They did.

The purpose is to determine WHY TRUDEAU IGNORED IT. And to inform the public who got the money.

Any call for another "investigation" is a smoke screen to buy time and bury evidence imo, under the guise of "national security". Which is bullshit. There can never be secrecy about election tampering. Ever.

Why would you want that?

 

[Butler1000]

Well then you came up with your two cents about the CBC that had nothing to do with the topic. You scored an own goal!!

Really? ITS THE CBC OUTING THE GOVERNMENT. He questioned whether they are wrong. So Bver, is the CBC wrong to report on this?

 

[DinkleMouse]

Dude. The investigation is DONE. Thats what the two intelligence agencies did. And reported it to the government. Twice. Who ignored it.

So it's a final or analysis report and not a preliminary? I'd love to know how you reached that conclusion. Have you seen the report? Because you quote CBC as a source Ave they have made it very clear that gave not confirmed it seen the report the Global News is citing.

The purpose of a public inquiry isn't to determine if the PRC interfered. They did. Or if they gave money to candidates. They did.

How do you know these are facts? Again, have you seen this report? How do you know what it contains?

The purpose is to determine WHY TRUDEAU IGNORED IT. And to inform the public who got the money.

Why Trudeau ignored it won't be in the report. That would be determined by an investigation. So else it won't answer that. As to who got money, in sure that will be revealed after the investigation is complete once they confirm who recieved money.

Any call for another "investigation" is a smoke screen to buy time and bury evidence imo, under the guise of "national security". Which is bullshit. There can never be secrecy about election tampering. Ever.

The report in question may contain other information critical to the security of the state. It may contain names of Canadian operatives, or information We don't know because, again, we haven't seen it. Unless you answer that your face to the questions above, in which case I'd love to know why you don't just leak the information if you're that sure if it.

And why do you say "another" investigation? If this is a preliminary report, there may have been no analysis. What if the CSE intercepted a phone call between a Chinese official and the Chinese Embassy and this is a preliminary report on that which has not been validated by multiple sources and other agencies, like CSIS, couldn't corroborate it? What is it's a counter-intelligence operation by MSS precisely designed to undermine and interfere with Canadian elections by getting people like you all wound up and eager to crucify any politician that is named?

Of course, this may be an analysis or final report, and it may paint a very damning picture. It also may contain no Official Secrets and be sanitized for release. We don't know. You're demands ignore that there are cases that perhaps we need an investigation or it can't be released, whereas I have no doubt an investigation into it will ensure any relevant information does come out eventually, because our opposition government will ensure there are answers. We have a very healthy representative democracy in Canada, despite what the "I have no rights anymore!" crowd will tell you. I do not doubt that if there are improprieties, other parties will ensure it gets out.

But again, you seem hell-bent on wanting to make sure certain people are condemned for actions that, as far as your and I actually know for a fact, may not have ever occurred. So I'll deflect your own question back at you: why would you want that?

Why would you want that?

Same reason I don't decide anyone accused or suspected of a crime is guilty until the facts come out: it's unfair to condemn people on suspicion or incomplete information.[/QUOTE]

 

[DinkleMouse]

Really? ITS THE CBC OUTING THE GOVERNMENT. He questioned whether they are wrong. So Bver, is the CBC wrong to report on this?

Actually, the CBC is citing Global News and saying that they haven't seen the document and can't confirm it.

Example: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-mpp-vincent-ke-resigns-1.6775829

>Quoting unnamed intelligence sources, Global News alleged Ke "served as a financial intermediary" in interference schemes by the Chinese Communist Party that were described in two Privy Council Office intelligence reports, which the media outlet had reviewed.

>CBC News has not independently confirmed the allegations.