Justin was right after all
- Thread starter Fun For All
- Start date
So two election cycles where he ignores the findings of the nation's intelligence services and there was interference. And now only under extreme public pressure does he allow for an investigation egere he will appoint an "eminent" person to run it.
Hmmmm, does the word COLLUSION come into play? Especially considering his previous admiring words for the Chinese regime.
Hmmmm, does the word COLLUSION come into play? Especially considering his previous admiring words for the Chinese regime.
Remember you asked if I had read the whole thread once? Try going back just one more post and read what was replied to...
"So two election cycles where he ignores the findings of the nation's intelligence services and there was interference."
Those findings said it has no effect. Those are the findings that were being discussed.
Yes, but these findings were biased towards the liberals. These findings must have had some effect, because why is Trudeau being asked to resign. Also, that liberal candidate Hon Dang, is being asked to resign, as well. That's why Justin is finally agreeing to a public investigation. Knowing Justin, the head of this investigation, will be biased towards the liberals, as usual!!
Are you saying CSIS has a liberal bias??? I would suggest you don't know anyone in CSIS if you believe that. Do you have any evidence to support your claim?
Because it's politics and all the other side ever does, no matter who the other side is, anytime they think they have the merest thread to pull on, is to say people should resign. You can find that in Canadian history books going back to the earliest days of Canadian government.
Conservatives asking liberals to resign, and vice versa, is not proof something is true. It's proof politics is still politics.
If you say so. But I'll wait and see what happens before I assume it's going to all be rigged. I mean, there's no need to try and predict the future, I can just wait and see what happens.
Whether or not they had an effect has no bearing on the occurrences. And that more importantly Trudeau chose to ignore the intelligence services for two election cycles.
You dont want them happening period, anymore than say foreign donors. No one can truly quantify their effect. Little or large the public has a right to know. And was denied that.
I'm not sure if you have any experience in the military or intelligence sectors, but it seems like this may come as a shock to you: it's the job of the intelligence community to not just detect but act against these threats, and specific directives to intelligence agencies are not usually made public. In other words, we don't know that he "ignored" them. We don't know what steps he may or may not have taken, or that they intelligence community may or may not have taken, and likely won't for a long time to come as it would fall under National Security and the Security of Secrets Act. There are plenty of things the public does not have the right to know.
To say no one can quantify their effect is also a bit insulting to the intelligence community, whose job it is to do exactly what and who did so.
Let's be very clear, Trudeau is a horrendous PM and needs to step down as leader of the Liberal Party. There's plenty of reasons why. There's certainly no need to speculate and invent more of them.
CSIS reported.
Now you're arguing that CSIS is covertly backing the liberals?
CBC article yesterday stated he was informed of what was going on and refused to authorize any action. He admitted this.
And yes interference in an election does come under the public's right to know. Hence the agency's publicly outing Trudeau. If it was a secret, they wouldn't have done it.
How do you quantify if a facebook post, a meme, or other social media directly changed someone's vote?
I'm sure once they look they'll find the people who sent money to the convoy funding shite, Russia, China, Israel, the US and a few other countries as well.
The report that was leaked from the "intelligence communities" came from an election interference task force Trudeau formed himself years ago (see sources below regarding SITE). Intelligence agencies have reported they've been taking steps to combat it going back for many years (see sources below where CSE reported it took steps to combat interference in 2019). He doesn't need to authorize action that is already included in their mandate. He said he didn't authorize any action when discussing a particular case, same as he denied knowledge about a particular case. He never said he's authorized no actions or denied knowledge in general, in fact he's been discussing election interference and doing things about it for years (see sources below).
I didn't say the public didn't have a right to know about interference, I said the public doesn't have a right to know all the details of what intelligence agencies are doing about it. Because if we publicise that information, other groups have an easier time working too circumvent it. That's how National Security works.
If you don't think social media is deciding votes, you haven't been listening. There's a reason there's a big push to combat misinformation and disinformation on social media. I'm not in the intelligence game, but it seems to me you can analyze past voting results with current poll results, compare polls before to after the release of misinformation or the suspected meddling, compare polls to actual election results, intercept foreign agent communications discussing their perceived effectiveness, etc. And those are ideas off the top of my head. Again though, it's literally the intelligence agencies' job to quantify these, and their report indicates no significant impact. I suspect the "how" is extremely complicated.
SOURCES
I'll give the link so you can confirm quotes aren't out of context, quote relevant parts, and highlight significant phrases.
From November of last year:
Trudeau accuses China of 'aggressive' election interference
It follows reports that Canada has identified 11 Beijing-funded candidates at the 2019 elections.
www.bbc.com
"We have taken significant measures to strengthen the integrity of our elections processes and our systems, and will continue to invest in the fight against election interference, against foreign interference of our democracies and institutions," Mr Trudeau told reporters on Monday.
From last month: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/china-interference-concerning-analyst-1.6752577
But Trudeau said he's aware of the threat and foreign interference did not change the outcomes of the 2019 and 2021 elections.
"I have been saying for years, including on the floor of the House of Commons, that China is trying to interfere in our democracy, in the process in our country, including during our elections," he told a news conference Monday.
Trudeau said Canada's intelligence agencies have been working "very hard" to counter the threat.
Jennifer O'Connell, parliamentary secretary to the minister of intergovernmental affairs, responded that the government had set up multiple committees to address and study foreign interference. Emergency Preparedness Minister Bill Blair chimed in that he had written to all MPs in December 2020 about the threat to elections from foreign actors — particularly China.
An article from 2018 where Trudeau is discussing foreign interference in elections (primarily Russia in this case, but still): https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-putin-election-interference-1.4587130
Trudeau cited how he has tasked Democratic Institutions Minister Karina Gould with shoring up Canada's electoral system against foreign meddling.
From a few days ago: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/election-foreign-influence-canada-1.6764639
That panel, which oversees the Critical Election Incident Public Protocol (CEIPP), was created in 2019 as part of a series of measures taken by the federal government to combat the threat of foreign influence on Canada's election process.
Last year, for example, Canada's cyber spy agency, the Communications Security Establishment (CSE), said in its annual report that it had launched a defensive operation to protect the 2021 federal election — including the party leaders' debate — from disruption by foreign agencies.
Juneau said that after the 2016 U.S. election, and reports of large-scale intervention, there was fear that Canada needed to take the issue more seriously.
"That was a wake-up call," he said.
Part of that wake-up call was the federal government's Plan to Protect Canada's Democracy. That plan included the creation of SITE, a task force comprised of CSIS, CSE, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) and Global Affairs Canada (GAC).
They found Russian and Chinese interference in both Liberal and Conservative already. Turns out there are people on both sides of the aisle that foreign actors would be happy to see in power.
Mulcair got screwed because whoever followed up Layton was going to suffer for being "Not-Layton".
Jagmeet came in with the hot social media campaign and was young and exciting and people just saw that work for Trudeau.
I think a lot of it just came down to the timing being what it was.
