Tamara Lich has been denied bail

[silentkisser]

Mandrill is on ignore.

And I agree with you. About protests. But invoking the equivalent of martial law and stating you will continue to use it preemptively is a dangerous precedent.

I'm especially concerned about the unbanking WITHOUT a means of appeal. They shut people down without due process.

For now I'm remaining "concerned" and taking a wait and see. But if they continue it past the 30 day then the Liberals are clearly stating they are too incompetent to handle this. Then encouraging specific activism to force the NDP to abandon support and get a Non Confidence vote will be my focus.

Please don't make it sound like Trudeau declared martial law. This is not even close. Martial law would mean the military is in charge, or the local government's authority has been taken over. That has not happened on any level. The Charter has not been suspended, and everything the government does is subject to review.

Now, if things have cooled down, the EA will be revoked. If the local police do as they are supposed to, it will not need to be brought back. As for the bank account freezing, I'm worried about Briane!

UPDATE: Chilliwack-Hope MP’s Tweet about single mother having bank account frozen under scrutiny

Mark Strahl insists ‘Briane’ who donated $50 is real despite widespread skepticism on social media

www.theprogress.com

But seriously, I think that is an issue. But, we don't know all the details. Maybe these accounts were suddenly flush with foreign money from the crowdfunding sites. I think there is a review process, so that hopefully will happen ASAP.

 

[Frankfooter]

It is a damn shame BLM did not follow the same strategy, - $2 Billion US in property damage

$400 million a day in business loss for the bridges blocked.

 

[LickingG2]

It was an illegal protest.

In Ontario you need to get a permit to protest, or else its illegal.
When you do, cops will come along and if you block traffic they will make you only do it for 2 minutes then let traffic flow.

This one had no permits.

Correct if I'm wrong but I didn't see anybody being charged protesting without a permit. According to google in Ontario you do not need a permit to protest. Now the City(Ottawa) may need a permit.

 

[y2kmark]

I'm waiting to see if it will. My stance is it was fine to clear the streets but now they have in essence kept it as both an investigative tool and, according to both Blair and Freeland, as a deterent and "pre-emptive" tool on people THEY THINK may come back.

It's not that the authorities THINK these people are coming back, it's that they KNOW that the people think they can come back. They need to be taught some behavior lessons first...

 

[Dutch Oven]

Hey, Dutch! I'm shocked that Lich's attorney didn't disqualify the judge for bias or file a complaint with the Judicial Counsel. Why do you think that attorney failed to do that?

JC can chime in too on this question? Looking forward to it.

There are lots of lawyers out there. Many good, and many bad.

What i love about you, in particular, is how you think that pointing out that the legal system doesn't recognize reasonable concerns regarding bias is an answer to reasonable concerns about bias. So perfectly circular. So authoritarian.

 

[K Douglas]

Don't know how you can make this argument when not only did Parliament approve the use of the Emergencies Act (and would have regardless if it was or wasn't a confidence vote), and Lich got a bail hearing. If there was no due process, she'd be thrown in the hole and we wouldn't hear from her.

Now, I'm no lawyer, but the judge mentioned she could face a lengthy jail term if found guilty. So, the charges are above a summary offence, so it's either indictable or a hybrid situation. Though I do laugh when her husband argued their first amendment rights were being violated. Makes me think Ontario and the other provinces should spend more time on civics, so people know what the fuck they are talking about related to the charter, the powers of the Feds and Provinces, and the power of the GG...

Also, I suspect that if the roles were reversed, and it was a group of First Nations or BLM that blocked up Ottawa, a lot of you clutching your pearls right now would be leading the call for direct action from the PM, like the use of the EA....

And you would suspect wrongly. The Emergencies Act should only be used during war or a terrorist attack. Many said even Trudeau Sr. went to far in 1970 authorizing its use and someone actually died during that crisis.

 

[Butler1000]

Please don't make it sound like Trudeau declared martial law. This is not even close. Martial law would mean the military is in charge, or the local government's authority has been taken over. That has not happened on any level. The Charter has not been suspended, and everything the government does is subject to review.

Now, if things have cooled down, the EA will be revoked. If the local police do as they are supposed to, it will not need to be brought back. As for the bank account freezing, I'm worried about Briane!

UPDATE: Chilliwack-Hope MP’s Tweet about single mother having bank account frozen under scrutiny

Mark Strahl insists ‘Briane’ who donated $50 is real despite widespread skepticism on social media

www.theprogress.com

But seriously, I think that is an issue. But, we don't know all the details. Maybe these accounts were suddenly flush with foreign money from the crowdfunding sites. I think there is a review process, so that hopefully will happen ASAP.

Freeland is calling for some of these things to be made permanent. Without due process.

 

[Butler1000]

It's not that the authorities THINK these people are coming back, it's that they KNOW that the people think they can come back. They need to be taught some behavior lessons first...

And existing laws can handle it. Just like in Toronto, Montreal, Windsor......

 

[K Douglas]

Why, Kirk?

Isn't this just a normal, everyday, run of the mill detention order based on "secondary ground concerns"?

At least try and understand bail law before you go off.

Um no its not. Its strictly political. The judge in the case is a former Liberal candidate in Eastern Ontario. Appointed to the bench in 2015 by Kathleen Wynne's gov't.
Show me a precedent where someone charged with counsel to commit mischief was ever denied bail. This is a first. Right out of the Jan 6 playbook.
Christ, even the Antifa extremist who tried to mow down protesters with his vehicle was granted bail.

 

[mandrill]

There are lots of lawyers out there. Many good, and many bad.

What i love about you, in particular, is how you think that pointing out that the legal system doesn't recognize reasonable concerns regarding bias is an answer to reasonable concerns about bias. So perfectly circular. So authoritarian.

Apparently, TL's backers got her a very good defence counsel.

The fact that someone might have had a Lib, Tory or NDP affiliation some years ago does not amount to legal bias. Not even close. That's why the lawyer didn't raise it.

I also understand that TL said that she would continue to re offend, if release on bail. That's pretty much an automatic bail denial from any judge.

 

[mandrill]

Um no its not. Its strictly political. The judge in the case is a former Liberal candidate in Eastern Ontario. Appointed to the bench in 2015 by Kathleen Wynne's gov't.
Show me a precedent where someone charged with counsel to commit mischief was ever denied bail. This is a first. Right out of the Jan 6 playbook.
Christ, even the Antifa extremist who tried to mow down protesters with his vehicle was granted bail.

No, Kirk.

See my post above in response to dutch.

 

[K Douglas]

Apparently, TL's backers got her a very good defence counsel.

The fact that someone might have had a Lib, Tory or NDP affiliation some years ago does not amount to legal bias. Not even close. That's why the lawyer didn't raise it.

I also understand that TL said that she would continue to re offend, if release on bail. That's pretty much an automatic bail denial from any judge.

Where's the text of her saying that?
Bottom line is she should be granted release on bail with conditions. If she continues to work with the convoy organizers its revoked and she's in prison until her case is resolved.
That will likely be the outcome next Tuesday. This is simply political posturing.

 

[Frankfooter]

Correct if I'm wrong but I didn't see anybody being charged protesting without a permit. According to google in Ontario you do not need a permit to protest. Now the City(Ottawa) may need a permit.

My bad, you are correct, its municipal.
Still an illegal protest without a permit.

Demonstrators

Know your rights and limitations as well as police duties in the event of public demonstrations, freedom of expression and peaceful assembly for protest.

www.ottawapolice.ca

 

[Dutch Oven]

Apparently, TL's backers got her a very good defence counsel.

The fact that someone might have had a Lib, Tory or NDP affiliation some years ago does not amount to legal bias. Not even close. That's why the lawyer didn't raise it.

I also understand that TL said that she would continue to re offend, if release on bail. That's pretty much an automatic bail denial from any judge.

Beautifully circular. Too bad circular reasoning never advances a discussion.

 

[mandrill]

Where's the text of her saying that?
Bottom line is she should be granted release on bail with conditions. If she continues to work with the convoy organizers its revoked and she's in prison until her case is resolved.
That will likely be the outcome next Tuesday. This is simply political posturing.

The bail hearing has been held and she was ordered detained.

What you suggest was undoubtedly considered by the bail court judge. The judge decided not to go with that. And no, not political posturing. With someone who is organizing illegal shit at a high level, it's always an important question whether they will just keep on phoning, texting and emailing and doing bad shit if released.

 

[mandrill]

Beautifully circular. Too bad circular reasoning never advances a discussion.

Maybe you should go represent her, Dutch. Her own very experienced, top ranked defence lawyer isn't up to your standards.

You could do far better, just being a smart guy who uses his commonsense. Who needs a law degree?

 

[mandrill]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1496312918522347523

 

[Dutch Oven]

Maybe you should go represent her, Dutch. Her own very experienced, top ranked defence lawyer isn't up to your standards.

You could do far better, just being a smart guy who uses his commonsense. Who needs a law degree?

You're proof that a law degree is no guarantee of good sense.

I'll give you a second chance. Do you really find it unreasonable for the average person to believe that a judge committed enough to the welfare of the Liberal Party to run as its candidate is likely biased toward a ruling that would provide political support for the current Liberal government's recent heavy handed actions? Or do you believe that Lich's alleged criminal activity (public mischief) is such a dire threat to society that such persons simply cannot remain free, even though alleged murderers and rapists can? See if you can answer without the meaningless "the law is....".

Do you really believe that the standard of bias, or reasonable apprehension of bias, as applied by the courts is aligned with any commonly held view of bias? Or is it really more aligned with (in my view) maximizing the the opportunity of judges to play a role in politics while maintaining the laughable pretense that ordinary human beings can be relied upon to set aside their political and personal leanings simply by throwing on a black robe?

 

[lomotil]

The vile seditious hate group, many emanating from Alberta with ties to like minded groups in America are treasonous and need to be exterminated. Lich and King should be charged with treason.

 

[Dutch Oven]

The vile seditious hate group, many emanating from Alberta with ties to like minded groups in America are treasonous and need to be exterminated. Lich and King should be charged with treason.

Why does everyone who says stuff like this sound a lot more hateful than those they accuse?