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CNN's Pro-Palestinian Contributer Has Pro-Hitler Past

Frankfooter

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Your lies are stupid and you don't even believe I said that.

I showed evidence there are PFLP members on the board of DCIP.
Yes, you have labelled and continue to label Defence for Children International as terrorists, as Israel does and as they have been roundly criticized for doing.
You are echoing Israeli government claims, as posted by the Israeli propaganda org, NGO Monitor.

The UN says its nonsense.

Why are they being called 'terrorist'?
Some of the groups were prominent in a campaign to prosecute Israeli leaders for war crimes at the International Criminal Court. They have often worked in partnership with leading global rights groups, such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch; were frequently cited in international news outlets, including The New York Times; and have received funding from foreign countries and institutions, including the European Union.
 

basketcase

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1) You are claiming that Palestinians in the Occupied Territories of Palestine do not have the right to self defence
You are claiming that attacks on random Jews at bus stops or walking around is somehow self defense. The actual definition is a war crime.

If a Jew or Palestinian is directly attacking someone, they should be arrested or if that's not possible, self defense means that the attacker can be met with force. Sadly you are advocating Jews as a legitimate target claiming they have no right to be in the West bank (a strange stance for someone allegedly arguing for equal rights.

p.s. Jews are also indigenous to the region and half of Israeli Jews are descended from Ottoman Jews just like Palestinians.


2) My stance is that the ICC should be called in to investigate both sides,
Yet as your usual double standard goes, you refuse to criticize obvious flaws in the Palestinian leadership without the ICC's okay but are happy to jump on any stupid allegation against Israel without evidence.


3) We are not talking about 'random people', we are talking about one class of illegal settlers who act as civilians
Yes, civilians. You are supporting attacks on random civilians because some other civilians are criminals. I would never suggest that all Palestinians are legitimate targets just because their leadership are terrorists (according to Canada)> Thankfully you aren't encumbered by morals.



No I didn't. Both sides need to step down,
So why don't you ever actually criticize groups like Hamas. A Hamas member recently attacked a tour group in Jerusalem, killing the guide. Hamas praised the attack. You just kept your mouth shut.


Please don't post when you've been drinking.




No people has any 'god given' right to any piece of land. Period.
And nice of you to conclude with a clear admission that your arguments are ridiculously self-contradictory. But sad that a 'drunk' person can still rip apart your bullshit.

And keep pretending that Islamic groups like Hamas aren't motivated by the same kind of religious bullshit you accuse Israel of. Just another of your double-standards that fit Canada's definition of anti-Semitism.
 

basketcase

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Yes, you have labelled and continue to label Defence for Children International as terrorists...
Wow. You really are getting pathetic with your repetition of that bullshit claim.

I call Hamas, PFLP, PIJ, Al Aqsa's and a few other terrorists because Canada defines them that way and I trust Canada's definition far more than yours.

I gave you evidence that PFLP members were on the board of DCIP. I never said that DCIP was itself a terrorist organization.

Just another case where you desperately grasp for straws because your claim that the Israeli government has terrorists in it fell flat and you don't want to admit that Gaza is run by terrorists and terrorists play a role in the PA leadership.
 

Frankfooter

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You are claiming that attacks on random Jews at bus stops or walking around is somehow self defense. The actual definition is a war crime.
No, I have never said any such thing.
Stop making up straw men and trying to slander me.

This discussion was about settlers attacking Palestinian civilians with the backing of the IDF, as reported by B'tselem.
Those are not 'random Jews at bus stops'. Would you call these people 'random Jews at bus stops'?

I note that you still refuse to acknowledge that Palestinians have the right to self defence at any time.
Which is a right you give settlers it appears even when they are attacking Palestinians in the Occupied Territories.
That's apartheid, different rights for different people.
Perfect example.

If a Jew or Palestinian is directly attacking someone, they should be arrested or if that's not possible, self defense means that the attacker can be met with force. .
I would agree.
I would also expect you to stand with me and say that this is therefore a war crime.

p.s. Jews are also indigenous to the region and half of Israeli Jews are descended from Ottoman Jews just like Palestinians.
Yes, some Jews there are indigenous.
All Jews and Palestinians should have the same rights, including right of return, correct?


Yet as your usual double standard goes, you refuse to criticize obvious flaws in the Palestinian leadership without the ICC's okay but are happy to jump on any stupid allegation against Israel without evidence.
Abbas is a corrupt idiot who should have resigned many years ago. Hamas and the Israeli government have both committed war crimes and crimes against humanity and should be held accountable at the ICC.
Your issue is that Israel, as the apartheid. occupying power, regularly commits almost 10x the amount of war crimes, which is why you refuse to accept having both held to the law equally, as I do. I also understand that it is impossible to criticize Hamas or Palestinians in a way that would satisfy you, no matter what I say.


Yes, civilians. You are supporting attacks on random civilians because some other civilians are criminals. I would never suggest that all Palestinians are legitimate targets just because their leadership are terrorists (according to Canada)> Thankfully you aren't encumbered by morals.
No I'm not. I do not support attacks on civilians on either side and really think the ICC and the UN should come in and stop attacks by both sides.
Even though all the settlements are illegal and all settlers are squatters they are not legit targets when they act as civilians.
When they act as militants, as they did 450 times in the last two years, they are not acting as civilians, and in these cases Palestinians have a right to self defence.
Your refusal to accept that Palestinians ever have a right to self defence is another manifestation of apartheid, or stating you think Palestinians should have fewer rights.


So why don't you ever actually criticize groups like Hamas. A Hamas member recently attacked a tour group in Jerusalem, killing the guide. Hamas praised the attack. You just kept your mouth shut.
Hamas are theocratic, corrupt and have committed acts of terrorism. The issue agains is that Israel kills 10x as many civilians, rules Gaza through apartheid and a war crime, illegal blockade and regularly commits way more crimes against humanity.
I call for both sides to be held to the law but you refuse to have both peoples treated equally as you support apartheid and the occupation and know that they would spend more time at the Hague.
Only one side is actively colonizing the other through a brutal military occupation, and its the side you continue to support. The side that has made the two state solution impossible.



And keep pretending that Islamic groups like Hamas aren't motivated by the same kind of religious bullshit you accuse Israel of. Just another of your double-standards that fit Canada's definition of anti-Semitism.
I really don't care which side thinks that their god gave them property rights to which rock, I'm sure there are zealots on both sides of the apartheid walls and fences.
Just stop the violence, end apartheid and stop killing each other.
Leave the god talk out of it.

Wow. You really are getting pathetic with your repetition of that bullshit claim.

I call Hamas, PFLP, PIJ, Al Aqsa's and a few other terrorists because Canada defines them that way and I trust Canada's definition far more than yours.

I gave you evidence that PFLP members were on the board of DCIP. I never said that DCIP was itself a terrorist organization.

Just another case where you desperately grasp for straws because your claim that the Israeli government has terrorists in it fell flat and you don't want to admit that Gaza is run by terrorists and terrorists play a role in the PA leadership.
So now you're saying Defence for Children International has terrorists on its board but that's ok?
Is that sort of you like you saying its ok that some terrorists, as Canada recognizes them, were elected to the Israeli government?
Really, the use of the word 'terrorist' is only used to dehumanize Palestinians to justify treating them as subhumans, or deserving of lesser human rights under apartheid.
 

basketcase

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Seems you're going to stick with describing Palestinian attacks on random Jews as "self defense" while calling similar acts by Jews terrorism. Make up your hypocritical mind. I don't think anyone has described Palestinians throwing rocks back at settlers throwing rocks as terrorism. The terrorism that has earned Hamas, PFLP, PIJ, and others a spot on Canada's terrorist list has been drive-bys at bus stops, car rammings, bombs on busses and stabbing random people. Sadly you never want to even admit to that.


While you keep quoting B'Tselem, Amnesty, and HRW, they all agree that no matter what the status of settlements are, the people living there are civilians. You keep trying to claim that a small number of Jews who throw rocks or firebombs at Palestinian civilians make all settlers legitimate targets (while also ignoring the regular rock throwing and firebombs from Palestinians) but the rights groups you pretend to follow say otherwise.

You are also on record using self defense to describe the Gaza rockets those same groups describe as crimes against humanity.

It's nice to see you think Hamas are scum. Most people would think that would be a good reason to keep them from being armed but you keep making excuses for them.

And yes, I gave you the evidence PFLP members on the board of DCIP and there is no one in the Israeli government that Canada defines as terrorists. But sure, keep pointing out that one non-terrorist who shares some views with terrorists is elected in Israel while ignoring that Gaza is run by terrorists and many in the PA share views with terrorists in their own party. And just a reminder that Israel banned the fringe Kach group just like they forcibly disarmed Irgun in 1949. Still waiting on the PA to do the same.
 

Frankfooter

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Seems you're going to stick with describing Palestinian attacks on random Jews as "self defense" while calling similar acts by Jews terrorism.
You have described settler attacks on Palestinians as terrorism.

I've repeatedly described the militant settlers as terrorists.
Yet you still refuse to admit that Palestinians being attacked by militant settlers with the backing of the IDF (note, this does not apply to 'random' Jews), have the right to self defence.
That is another example of apartheid, your support of settlers having the right to self defence but not Palestinians, even against acts you call 'terrorism'. Different rights based on race/religion.


While you keep quoting B'Tselem, Amnesty, and HRW, they all agree that no matter what the status of settlements are, the people living there are civilians. You keep trying to claim that a small number of Jews who throw rocks or firebombs at Palestinian civilians make all settlers legitimate targets (while also ignoring the regular rock throwing and firebombs from Palestinians) but the rights groups you pretend to follow say otherwise.
If they are acting as civilians they are not targets, settlers, Palestinians, Christians and tourists. All peoples.

But there were 450 attacks over the last two years, how small a number is responsible for those attacks? Do you think these attacks were by 'random Jews', as you call them? What does that mean?
Why do you still argue that Palestinians should not have a right to self defence from acts of what you call 'terrorism'?


You are also on record using self defense to describe the Gaza rockets those same groups describe as crimes against humanity.
Gaza rockets are war crimes, like Israeli shelling, as indiscriminate weapons that can't be aimed only at military targets.
When Hamas and Israel target civilian structures, as apparently both did, they are committing war crimes and both should be investigated by the ICC.

It's nice to see you think Hamas are scum. Most people would think that would be a good reason to keep them from being armed but you keep making excuses for them.
I'm all for disarming both sides, but disarming one side is just likely to lead to slaughter.


And yes, I gave you the evidence PFLP members on the board of DCIP and there is no one in the Israeli government that Canada defines as terrorists. But sure, keep pointing out that one non-terrorist who shares some views with terrorists is elected in Israel while ignoring that Gaza is run by terrorists and many in the PA share views with terrorists in their own party. And just a reminder that Israel banned the fringe Kach group just like they forcibly disarmed Irgun in 1949. Still waiting on the PA to do the same.
DCIP supported ICC investigations so Israel labelled them and five other groups as terrorist to try to cut their funding and influence.
Russia is doing the same thing.

When the ICC formed in 2002, Al-Haq immediately began exploring ways that the new body could hold Israel accountable for violations of Palestinians’ human rights. Al-Haq’s files already contained tens of thousands of detailed testimonies and affidavits documenting decades of Israeli abuses. Over a decade later, Al-Haq and three other Palestinian human rights organizations—Addameer, the Palestinian Center for Human Rights in Gaza, and AlMezan—jointly submitted to the ICC detailed case files outlining war crimes committed by Israel in the West Bank and during its attacks on Gaza. These case files spurred the ICC to action.
Another organization Israel has labeled “terrorist” is Defense for Children International-Palestine, AFSC’s partner on the No Way to Treat a Child Campaign. Through our campaign, we have sought to raise awareness about the mistreatment of Palestinian children in Israeli military detention and other violations of Palestinian children’s rights. The campaign and the tireless advocacy of DCIP has made an impact. In 2017, U.S. Rep. Betty McCollum introduced the first-ever legislation in Congress demanding protection of Palestinian human rights and calling for the conditioning of U.S. military assistance to Israel.


Who are going to label as terrorists next?
Haaretz?
B'tselem?
the UN?
MESA?
Protesting latest Israeli attacks on Palestinian universities and civil society organizations (MESA)

Democracies don't try to ban human rights agencies for criticism, nor people who defend human rights and democracy defend these acts.
 

basketcase

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You have described settler attacks on Palestinians as terrorism.
...
Yes. I consider throwing rocks and firebombs at people because of their ethnicity to be terrorism. Unlike you though, I apply it to both sides. Some Palestinians regularly throw rocks and firebombs at Jews and some Jews regularly throw rocks and firebombs at Palestinians.

When those attacks are going on, self defense applies which means if their life in in danger, Palestinians can respond to the attackers just the same way that Israelis should. Of course you also complain when Israel arrests or kills an Palestinian during their attack. Simply arresting the assailants would be even better than self defense. Israel doesn't have a great record prosecuting settlers but it sure is better than PA or Hamas who celebrate attacks on Israeli Jews.

I also disagree with your repeated arguments that attacks on Jews in Jerusalem or the West Bank are justified because of other people throwing rocks. You've also used that same excuse for stabbing attacks and Gaza rockets.

...

But there were 450 attacks over the last two years, how small a number is responsible for those attacks? Do you think these attacks were by 'random Jews', as you call them? What does that mean?
Why do you still argue that Palestinians should not have a right to self defence from acts of what you call 'terrorism'?
...
Considering there are also daily attacks from Palestinians throwing rocks at buses, trains, and Israeli civilian vehicles... Oh wait, you never worry about what Palestinians do or want.
 

basketcase

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...
but disarming one side is just likely to lead to slaughter.
...
Finally a statement we agree on. Pathetically you're probably trying to say Hamas terrorism is somehow protecting Palestinians instead of causing more harm and pretending that disarming Hamas is somehow a bad thing.
 

basketcase

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p.s. I find it ironic that people who support boycotting Israel get upset that Israeli is helping them keep true to their word.
 

Frankfooter

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When those attacks are going on, self defense applies which means if their life in in danger, Palestinians can respond to the attackers just the same way that Israelis should.
No, you do not apply it to both sides.
Even in this post its very clear.
You say that 'if Palestinians lives are in danger' they can respond, as opposed to you saying that Israelis should respond.
That's yet another form of apartheid, where you articulate different standards based on race/religion, despite one people living under a brutal, military occupation by the people you say 'should' respond.

You also refuse to acknowledge that settlement building is colonialism, a form of aggression, and that colonialism by military force is a war crime.
Instead you post about the indigenous people throwing rocks at the people who keep tearing down their homes, farms and schools as if its the indigenous who are instigating this occupation and colonialism.



Bring in the ICC and let them figure out who is committing war crimes
 

Frankfooter

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Sure thing buddy. You don't even admit certain Palestinians (such as Hamas) commit acts of terrorism.
Straw man, basketcase.

Yes, Hamas commits acts that are labelled as 'terrorism', as do settlers and as do the IDF and as are ordered by Israeli leaders.
Take them all to the Hague.

Only one side is actively trying to colonize another people's land through force.
Only one side rules the other through a military, apartheid, half century old, occupation.

So its easy for me to say that both sides should be treated equally by the law.
But you can never do so, because you know the occupation is illegal, the settlements are colonial and the whole thing run through apartheid.
And even more so, you know that Israel and the settlers are committing way more acts of terrorism than Hamas, so you can never support holding both sides to the law.
 

basketcase

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Straw man, basketcase.

Yes, Hamas commits acts that are labelled as 'terrorism', ...
So it's a strawman to say you refuse to admit Hamas and some other Palestinians commit terrorism and then you respond by refusing to admit they commit terrorism with silly word games and then go back to your self-defense claims. Are you afraid you will lose your membership in some club if they see you admit Hamas are terrorists? And again, if you consider some Israeli settlers to be terrorists for throwing rocks at civilians, why can't you apply that same standard to the some Palestinians who do the same thing?

Of course it's easy for you to say "both sides" when you have absolutely no interest in actually criticizing both sides.
 

Frankfooter

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So it's a strawman to say you refuse to admit Hamas and some other Palestinians commit terrorism and then you respond by refusing to admit they commit terrorism with silly word games and then go back to your self-defense claims. Are you afraid you will lose your membership in some club if they see you admit Hamas are terrorists? And again, if you consider some Israeli settlers to be terrorists for throwing rocks at civilians, why can't you apply that same standard to the some Palestinians who do the same thing?

Of course it's easy for you to say "both sides" when you have absolutely no interest in actually criticizing both sides.
No, that's not a straw man. That's just lying to say I haven't quite often said Hamas and other Palestinians have committed acts that are definable as 'terrorism'. Please refer to the stats kept by B'tselem, where its clear that Israel and the settlers commit way more acts of 'terrorism'. And don't forget that I call for both sides to be held to the law while you refuse to back the rule of law.

Settlers, by the way, are in the news for attacking the indigenous Palestinian villages fully armed and with the backing of the IDF. That's much different than throwing rocks.
B'tselem make a strong case that the acts you call 'terrorism' committed by settlers are Israeli government policy.

With 450 acts of this kind of terrorism committed in the last 2 years why aren't you taking a stand?
 

basketcase

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No, that's not a straw man. That's just lying to say I haven't quite often said Hamas and other Palestinians have committed acts that are definable as 'terrorism'. ...
So you keep needing to put "terrorism" in quotation marks when it comes to Hamas. You never need that qualifier when claiming Israel is terrorist. Do you think that the Hamas member who shot up a tour, killing the guide isn't terrorism? Do you think shooting random people at a bus stop shouldn't be described as terrorism?

And still waiting for you to explain how you agree with me that settler youth throwing rocks and firebombs at Palestinians is terrorism but refuse to describe Palestinian youth doing the same thing as terrorism?
 

Frankfooter

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So you keep needing to put "terrorism" in quotation marks when it comes to Hamas. You never need that qualifier when claiming Israel is terrorist. Do you think that the Hamas member who shot up a tour, killing the guide isn't terrorism? Do you think shooting random people at a bus stop shouldn't be described as terrorism?

And still waiting for you to explain how you agree with me that settler youth throwing rocks and firebombs at Palestinians is terrorism but refuse to describe Palestinian youth doing the same thing as terrorism?
Back to this 'random' people thing.

I say lets bring on the ICC and let them sort out which acts are apartheid, which are self defence, which are war crimes and which are apartheid.
Let them decide who is random, who is a civilian and who is a militant.
Join me in calling for both sides to be held to the law.
Join me in calling for equal rights for all and the end of apartheid.

 

basketcase

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Back to this 'random' people thing.
...
All this bobbing and weaving to avoid admitting there is such a thing as terrorism on the Palestinian side. You're still arguing against all the rights groups you pretend to follow who say being a Jew in the West Bank does not eliminate their civilian protections?

Canada says Hamas are terrorists. Canada says PFLP, PIJ, and Fatah's military wing are terrorists. Israel isn't. You and I agree that throwing rocks and firebombs at civilians is terrorism so why do you refuse to apply that when Palestinians do it?
 

Frankfooter

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All this bobbing and weaving to avoid admitting there is such a thing as terrorism on the Palestinian side. You're still arguing against all the rights groups you pretend to follow who say being a Jew in the West Bank does not eliminate their civilian protections?

Canada says Hamas are terrorists. Canada says PFLP, PIJ, and Fatah's military wing are terrorists. Israel isn't. You and I agree that throwing rocks and firebombs at civilians is terrorism so why do you refuse to apply that when Palestinians do it?
You are the one that refuses to support both sides being held to the law, including all acts of terrorism, war crimes, apartheid and crimes against humanity.
So stop accusing me when its you that refuses to say that all acts of 'terrorism' by both sides should be investigated by the ICC.

Join me in calling for investigations and charges, the end of the occupation and the end of apartheid.
Until then neither side will stop the violence.
 

jcpro

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