Some masks better than others

[shack]

Current masks arent working. Mass-wearing of N95 masks is whats needed

At this point I won't argue that (anymore).

So in those pictures, how much difference would it make if ALL of those masks were replaced by N95s. Replace each and every mask that you see being worn with an N95 and tell me how much difference would it make. Keep the total number of masks the same. Please do me a favour and give me a straight up answer. It is a totally fair question. We disagree but the discussion has for the most part has been respectful to the point of not devolving into gutter territory. Please respect my request for an honest answer. Exchange each mask you see in those pics 1 for 1 with an N95 mask and tell all of us how much difference would it make.

 

[basketcase]

No, it wasnt extremely common.

...

So google and the media must be part of the conspiracy to make it seem like it was?

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

So google and the media must be part of the conspiracy to make it seem like it was?

Current masks arent working. Mass-wearing of N95 masks is whats needed

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

At this point I won't argue that (anymore).

So in those pictures, how much difference would it make if ALL of those masks were replaced by N95s. Replace each and every mask that you see being worn with an N95 and tell me how much difference would it make. Keep the total number of masks the same. Please do me a favour and give me a straight up answer. It is a totally fair question. We disagree but the discussion has for the most part has been respectful to the point of not devolving into gutter territory. Please respect my request for an honest answer. Exchange each mask you see in those pics 1 for 1 with an N95 mask and tell all of us how much difference would it make

I would think if everyone wore an N95 mask it would cut new infections by half. But of course everyone would also have to disinfect their mask daily, and getting people to do that wouldnt be easy and virtually impossible to enforce

 

[shack]

I would think if everyone wore an N95 mask it would cut new infections by half. But of course everyone would also have to disinfect their mask daily, and getting people to do that wouldnt be easy and virtually impossible to enforce

That isn't what I asked, good sir. With all due respect I asked if, in those pictures, every person who was wearing a mask replaced it with an N95 how much difference would it make in terms of slowing the spread of the virus. Let's estimate 5% of the people are wearing masks. How much less virus within that entire crowd do you think would be spread if that 5% now wore N95s instead of the inferior ones that they are wearing. Just taking a guess, if there are 1,000 people, that means 50 people are wearing masks and that might be generous.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

That isn't what I asked, good sir. With all due respect I asked if, in those pictures, every person who was wearing a mask replaced it with an N95 how much difference would it make in terms of slowing the spread of the virus. Let's estimate 5% of the people are wearing masks. How much less virus within that entire crowd do you think would be spread if that 5% now wore N95s instead of the inferior ones that they are wearing. Just taking a guess, if there are 1,000 people, that means 50 people are wearing masks and that might be generous.

View attachment 32227

Obviously if only 50 out of 100 people wore a N95 mask it wouldnt make much of a difference.

Its kinda of a Captain obvious question, so I'm not sure what you're getting at

 

[squeezer]

Obviously if only 50 out of 100 people wore a N95 mask it wouldnt make much of a difference.

Its kinda of a Captain obvious question, so I'm not sure what you're getting at

Let me ask you this question. You're walking into a small elevator in a condo building. The elevator stops on the second floor and 2 other people walk in. Now you are 3. Do you prefer they have and would feel more comfortable if

1) no face covering

2) some form of face covering with their nose and mouth covered



BTW- great sig pic. AS mentioned before there is one thing I will give you is a prop on sig pic choices.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Let me ask you this question. You're walking into a small elevator in a condo building. The elevator stops on the second floor and 2 other people walk in. Now you are 3. Do you prefer they have and would feel more comfortable if

1) no face covering

2) some form of face covering with their nose and mouth covered

Okay, so good question. The answer is it will make virtually no difference and here's why:

The current masks people are wearing have large gaps at the top, the bottom, and the sides.
Every time a person breathes in and out they release infected air. That air has to go somewhere (which in this case means the rest of the elevator).
It would be impossible for the other people in the elevator to not breathe in this infected air (unles they're wearing an N95).

Remember OP video??

This is why wearing a very tight fitting N95 mask is imperative.
It seals off most air you breathe in and out.
It also filters out 95% of contaminants you breathe in.
And even a N95 isnt perfect because you will have some very tiny gaps from which air can escape, but its at least MUCH better than those flimsy masks people are currently wearing.

And thats my final answer you guys. I've spent way too much time and typing on this subject.
From now on you will only get this standard response from me

Current masks arent working. Mass-wearing of N95 masks is whats needed

 

[squeezer]

Okay, so good question. The answer is it will make virtually no difference and here's why:

The current masks people are wearing have large gaps at the top, the bottom, and the sides.
Every time a person breathes in and out they release infected air. That air has to go somewhere (which in this case means the rest of the elevator).
It would be impossible for the other people in the elevator to not breathe in this infected air (unles they're wearing an N95).

Remember OP video??

This is why wearing a very tight fitting N95 mask is imperative.
It seals off most air you breathe in and out.
It also filters out 95% of contaminants you breathe in.
And even a N95 isnt perfect because you will have some very tiny gaps from which air can escape, but its at least MUCH better than those flimsy masks people are currently wearing.

And thats my final answer you guys. I've spent way too much time and typing on this subject.
From now on you will only get this standard response from me

Current masks arent working. Mass-wearing of N95 masks is whats needed

I disagree with you but you knew I would. If everyone within the elevator are wearing a mask, it will help and possibly prevent a spread. I do not say 100% but your risk is lessened.


Proper material, structure and fit
Well-designed and well-fitting masks or face coverings can prevent the spread of your infectious respiratory droplets. They may also help protect you from the infectious respiratory droplets of others.

How well a mask or face covering works depends on the materials used, how the mask is made, and most importantly, how well it fits.

A mask or face covering can be homemade or purchased, and should:

• be made of at least 3 layers
  • 2 layers should be tightly woven material fabric, such as cotton or linen
  • the third (middle) layer should be a filter-type fabric, such as non-woven polypropylene fabric
• be large enough to completely and comfortably cover the nose, mouth and chin without gaping
• allow for easy breathing
• fit securely to the head with ties or ear loops
• be comfortable and not require frequent adjustments
• be changed as soon as possible if damp or dirty
• maintain its shape after washing and drying

Filters
Filters add an extra layer of protection against COVID-19 by trapping small infectious particles. Consider wearing a mask that includes a filter or filter material as one of its layers, such as:

• non-woven polypropylene fabric, which can be found as:
  • a craft fabric
  • the non-woven fabric that's used to make some reusable shopping bags
• a disposable filter inserted into a pocket on the mask

Check out how to make your own face covering with a filter.

Reusable masks with a non-woven filter layer should be washed daily, and can be washed multiple times. Disposable filters should be changed daily or as directed by the manufacturer.

Respiratory infectious diseases: Mask use for reducing the spread - Canada.ca

Wearing a mask can help reduce the spread of respiratory infectious diseases.

www.canada.ca

 

[shack]

Obviously if only 50 out of 100 people wore a N95 mask it wouldnt make much of a difference.

Its kinda of a Captain obvious question, so I'm not sure what you're getting at

Thank you for acknowledging it. The point it proves is that no matter how good masks are, human behaviour sometimes plays a huge factor in regards to the spread and spike of the virus. How much is mask and how much is compliance cannot be determined. One cannot say that a rise in cases proves that masks are useless, because as you've acknowledged, sometimes lack of compliance, if significant enough in numbers, overrides even using optimal masks.

The above example is extreme for a single event, but enough gatherings from T'giving to New Years, where people let their guard down and not wear masks even for part of the time has a cumulative effect. Get ten thousand parties across the province during that 3-4 month time period of 10, 12, 20 people is going to account for thousands of transmissions. And all the large gatherings during demonstrations and covidiots like TJ and tinyaxe who refuse to comply also contribute to the spread. The logical conclusion is that the increase in cases may be partly due to ineffective masks but it also partly due to people not complying. Hence one cannot say that non-N95s are useless. Even N95s are useless when people don't wear them.

Cases going up proves that during that time from mid-October to Jan. mask efficiency combined with the overall efforts of Ontarians was not good enough to quell the spread, not that non-95s are useless. If people had worn the same masks but there were no parties and nobody took off the masks, cases would be lower. If everybody who wore masks and wore only N95s, then cases would also probably be lower. But since neither of those extremes occurred the truth lies somewhere in between. How much is due to each factor, none of us know. But once there is more than 1 one factor at play one cannot say that an increase in cases "proves" anything about 1 single factor.

You've acknowledged that non-compliance can be the overriding factor in spikes and has nothing to do with different types of masks. I can acknowledge that N95s are the most effective, which is what the title of your thread is. At this point, let's drop the debate. The horse is dead, but not from covid. It had an N95 feedbag on. It's been beaten to death.

 

[basketcase]

Covid is airborne. If you have large gaps inside your mask from which infected air can escape then current masks people are wearing wont work, and the numbers clearly show that. Have a look at this graph, its from the German Federal Institute for Drugs and Medical Devices (Bundesinstitut für Arzneimittel und Medizinprodukte). It clearly shows that surgical masks are only effective in stopping large droplets, but not liquid aerosols:

Did you bother reading your own post phil? Were you aware that they say surgical masks are an effective way to protect others from your droplets?

 

[basketcase]

...

I never said one virion escaping would infect someone. Please quote my exact post where I said that
...

That seems to be the intent of your posts. You keep claiming that surgical masks allow leakage which means you think the small amount of air that escapes at low velocity around the edges of a masks have some kind of guided missile ability that allows the virus to travel to other people and find their way through the gaps around their masks.

Yes, a small percentage of your breath will escape. According to studies on FDA approved surgical masks says it's between 5 and 7%. Of that air you breath out, only a small percent of it may contain viruses. Of that, only a small percentage can travel more than 2 m through the air. Of that, only a small percentage can then pass through or around the other person's surgical mask.

That is why the levels of masks recommended for the general public are not N95s (not even mentioning how that would require people to wear masks regularly, have them properly fitted including men shaving every day, and not having them hanging off their chin or not covering their nose, and replaced regularly). And it would also be nice if you admitted that N95s do not give 100% protection either.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Did you bother reading your own post phil? Were you aware that they say surgical masks are an effective way to protect others from your droplets?

Current masks arent working. Mass-wearing of N95 masks is whats needed

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

That seems to be the intent of your posts. You keep claiming that surgical masks allow leakage which means you think the small amount of air that escapes at low velocity around the edges of a masks have some kind of guided missile ability that allows the virus to travel to other people and find their way through the gaps around their masks.

Yes, a small percentage of your breath will escape. According to studies on FDA approved surgical masks says it's between 5 and 7%. Of that air you breath out, only a small percent of it may contain viruses. Of that, only a small percentage can travel more than 2 m through the air. Of that, only a small percentage can then pass through or around the other person's surgical mask.

That is why the levels of masks recommended for the general public are not N95s (not even mentioning how that would require people to wear masks regularly, have them properly fitted including men shaving every day, and not having them hanging off their chin or not covering their nose, and replaced regularly). And it would also be nice if you admitted that N95s do not give 100% protection either

Current masks arent working. Mass-wearing of N95 masks is whats needed

 

[basketcase]

Current masks arent working. Mass-wearing of N95 masks is whats needed

Pronouncement from the world's leading medical expert.

Facts? Reason? Logic? Who needs them?


p.s. with all the idiots still not wanting to wear masks, do you think that we can get every man to shave daily so that an N95 could come close to working?

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Pronouncement from the world's leading medical expert.

Facts? Reason? Logic? Who needs them?


p.s. with all the idiots still not wanting to wear masks, do you think that we can get every man to shave daily so that an N95 could come close to working?

expand...

Current masks arent working. Mass-wearing of N95 masks is whats needed

 

[shack]

Current masks arent working. Mass-wearing of N95 masks is whats needed

Prove that it is masks only and not lack of compliance. You already agreed that human behaviour can be more of a factor than type of mask. The pictures proved that and you admitted it.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Prove that it is masks only and not lack of compliance. You already agreed that human behaviour can be more of a factor than type of mask. The pictures proved that and you admitted it

Current masks arent working. Mass-wearing of N95 masks is whats needed

 

[shack]

Current masks arent working. Mass-wearing of N95 masks is whats needed

N95s don't work either if people don't wear them. If people remove their PPE during Sunday's Super Bowl, hazmat suits wouldn't make a difference. No single preventive measure is an entity unto itself when determining effectiveness.

Your mantra is meaningless without also discussing compliance of all preventive measures. When you ignore the compliance factor, you are reduced to your meaningless single line.

Obviously if only 50 out of 100 people wore a N95 mask it wouldnt make much of a difference.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

N95s don't work either if people don't wear them. If people remove their PPE during Sunday's Super Bowl, hazmat suits wouldn't make a difference. No single preventive measure is an entity unto itself when determining effectiveness.

Your mantra is meaningless without also discussing compliance of all preventive measures. When you ignore the compliance factor, you are reduced to your meaningless single line

Current masks arent working. Mass-wearing of N95 masks is whats needed