Toronto Girlfriends

Some masks better than others

Phil C. McNasty

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Dec 27, 2010
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Compared to wearing no mask at all? Yes. BTW, I'm waiting for the study that you're ready to spring on me
Covid is airborne. If you have large gaps inside your mask from which infected air can escape then current masks people are wearing wont work, and the numbers clearly show that. Have a look at this graph, its from the German Federal Institute for Drugs and Medical Devices (Bundesinstitut für Arzneimittel und Medizinprodukte). It clearly shows that surgical masks are only effective in stopping large droplets, but not liquid aerosols:

 

Phil C. McNasty

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Dec 27, 2010
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Were you allowed out of the house at the time? if you were, you'd know how full of shit you are. Most people were wearing masks in stores and it was because medical advice was telling them to, not just because the stores said so
That is simply not true. Stores which required masks were a tiny minority, and it wasnt enforced.
We had just come out of a lengthy lockdown and stores desperately needed our bu$ine$$.
They very rarely refused customers for not wearing masks.

I'm not gonna keep beating a dead horse here, so my standard response to you and shack will be this from now on:

Current masks arent working. Mass-wearing of N95 masks is whats needed
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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I've already told you earlier, the numbers should have gone down from the day masks were mandated, July 14th to about Sept. 14th.
They didnt go down, they went up instead. That proves masks didnt work
And as you've ignored repeatedly, mask use was extremely common long before mask mandates in Ontario.
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
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That is simply not true. Stores which required masks were a tiny minority, and it wasnt enforced.
We had just come out of a lengthy lockdown and stores desperately needed our bu$ine$$.
They very rarely refused customers for not wearing masks.

I'm not gonna keep beating a dead horse here, so my standard response to you and shack will be this from now on:

Current masks arent working. Mass-wearing of N95 masks is whats needed
Don't know what basement you hide in but stores in Toronto and most major population centres were requiring masks and the vast majority of people were wearing them. If you want, there is this internet thing with hundreds of stories about masks in stores from the April-June period.


p.s. If the government starts recommending N95s then I'll follow their advice but the reality you seem uncapable of understanding is every mask offers some protection and it's just a matter of determining what level of protection makes sense for the situation. You want to keep arguing that transmission is possible with other masks but it is possible with any mask and any precautions. If you wanted 100% protection you could do it but even in covid wards, they don't go that far because the risk doesn't warrant the fraction of a percent increased risk.
 
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Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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Don't know what basement you hide in but stores in Toronto and most major population centres were requiring masks and the vast majority of people were wearing them. If you want, there is this internet thing with hundreds of stories about masks in stores from the April-June period.
Some grocery stores required, but most did not.
I remember T&T required it, but all the other major ones like Loblaws, Metro, Sobeys....etc did not.
I even went into the Eaton Centre around the middle of June without a mask.

BTW right from your link. These are the experts you trust in 😂



"Canada's chief public health officer now says that wearing a non-medical mask can help stop the spread of COVID-19.

Dr. Theresa Tam, the top doctor at the Public Health Agency of Canada, said today that Canadians can use non-medical masks in tandem with social distancing measures to limit the transmission of the deadly virus when out grocery shopping or at a pharmacy.

The recommendation represents an about-face for the public health officer — who until now has resisted the idea of non-health care professionals wearing masks.

"Wearing a non-medical mask is an additional measure that you can take to protect others around you," Tam said — while warning that a non-medical mask doesn't necessarily protect the person wearing it"
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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BTW @shack, are you ever gonna admit you were wrong about surgical masks being able to stop liquid aerosols??


Already been discussed. Clearly masks filter out a very high percentage of virus containing aerosol and droplets. But as far as you are concerned, one virion escaping=automatic transmission=automatic infection. Masks are more reliable than your thought process.

Masks are not 100% effective does not mean masks are useless.
 

Phil C. McNasty

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Dec 27, 2010
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Already been discussed. Clearly masks filter out a very high percentage of virus containing aerosol and droplets
Only N95 masks do. The current homemade or surgical masks most people wear do not

But as far as you are concerned, one virion escaping=automatic transmission=automatic infection
I never said one virion escaping would infect someone. Please quote my exact post where I said that

Masks are not 100% effective does not mean masks are useless
The numbers show otherwise. Masks people are currently wearing made no impact whatsoever
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Only N95 masks do. The current homemade or surgical masks most people wear do not

I never said one virion escaping would infect someone. Please quote my exact post where I said that
Not in those exact words, but in your opinion any mask that allows more than an an N95 is useless. That is wrong.

A mask that stops, for example, 80% means only 1/5 the number of virus particles exhaled is released. We can agree on that. Of those 20% of virus particles, how many reach somebody nearby? That would be transmission rate of virus particles. Obviously not all of them, less than 100% of that 20%. I don't know the number and neither do you, but it is less than that 20% of those originally exhaled particles. That transmission rate is not the infection rate because having the virus land on someone does not automatically lead to an infection. It may land on their clothing or hand (which should get washed) or hair. What percentage of transmission of virus leads to infection? Again neither of us know, but we know it is not 100%. But in your mind, a mask that allows more than 5% to get through is going to cause infection, they are useless.

So with a mask stopping 80%, only 1/5 of the virions get past the mask. The number that get transmitted (actually land on a recipient) is significantly less than that. And the number of resultant infections is less than that again because not every virus that lands on someone is going to get into their bloodstream. So 1/5 minus a certain percent and then that number reduced by another certain percent is going to result in a very, very low chance that a mask that "only" stops 80% will result in an infection. I'd estimate that it reduces the chance of infection to somewhere between 90-95%. You call those masks useless. I call them effective. The only way they can be called useless is that they result in an infection every time. That is why I said what I said about 1 virion. It was a slight exaggeration but the concept is bang on.

The numbers show otherwise. Masks people are currently wearing made no impact whatsoever
No. No. No. Once again you blame everything on the mask and never on people's behaviour. Totally unreasonable and irrational. You stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that during those numerous holiday get togethers many people take off their masks indoors because they are with family and friends where they feel safer. That is the exact reason why the health experts told people, DON'T HAVE TRADITIONAL HOLIDAY DINNERS AND PARTIES. They know that people let their guards down. But to you, it is ONLY about masks that allow more than 5% of exhaled virus to get through.

If you want to debate, please do so looking at all factors, not with blinkers on. Having tunnel vision and being stubborn does not make you right. It makes you a debater that is easy to prove wrong.
 
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Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
27,027
5,148
113
Not in those exact words, but in your opinion any mask that allows more than an an N95 is useless. That is wrong.

A mask that stops, for example, 80% means only 1/5 the number of virus particles exhaled is released. We can agree on that. Of those 20% of virus particles, how many reach somebody nearby? That would be transmission rate of virus particles. Obviously not all of them, less than 100% of that 20%. I don't know the number and neither do you, but it is less than that 20% of those originally exhaled particles. That transmission rate is not the infection rate because having the virus land on someone does not automatically lead to an infection. It may land on their clothing or hand (which should get washed) or hair. What percentage of transmission of virus leads to infection? Again neither of us know, but we know it is not 100%. But in your mind, a mask that allows more than 5% to get through is going to cause infection, they are useless.

So with a mask stopping 80%, only 1/5 of the virions get past the mask. The number that get transmitted (actually land on a recipient) is significantly less than that. And the number of resultant infections is less than that again because not every virus that lands on someone is going to get into their bloodstream. So 1/5 minus a certain percent and then that number reduced by another certain percent is going to result in a very, very low chance that a mask that "only" stops 80% will result in an infection. I'd estimate that it reduces the chance of infection to somewhere between 90-95%. You call those masks useless. I call them effective. The only way they can be called useless is that they result in an infection every time. That is why I said what I said about 1 virion. It was a slight exaggeration but the concept is bang on.

No. No. No. Once again you blame everything on the mask and never on people's behaviour. Totally unreasonable and irrational. You stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that during those numerous holiday get togethers many people take off their masks indoors because they are with family and friends where they feel safer. That is the exact reason why the health experts told people, DON'T HAVE TRADITIONAL HOLIDAY DINNERS AND PARTIES. They know that people let their guards down. But to you, it is ONLY about masks that allow more than 5% of exhaled virus to get through.

If you want to debate, please do so looking at all factors, not with blinkers on. Having tunnel vision and being stubborn does not make you right. It makes you a debater that is easy to prove wrong.
Its you who's got the blinders on.

Current masks arent working. Mass-wearing of N95 masks is whats needed
 

shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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Toronto
Its you who's got the blinders on.

Current masks arent working. Mass-wearing of N95 masks is whats needed
Try refuting the points of my post which builds a case with logic and reason as opposed to only ever saying that masks are the only reason cases go up. Epic phail, Fil.

Tell me how effective N95s are when people take them off during Xmas dinner or all those other holidays that were bunched together and perfectly coincided with that last spike? They are trash, like your unprovable theory.

You are taking the effect and making it the cause. Jack understands.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
27,027
5,148
113
Try refuting the points of my post which builds a case with logic and reason as opposed to only ever saying that masks are the only reason cases go up. Epic phail, Fil.

Tell me how effective N95s are when people take them off during Xmas dinner or all those other holidays that were bunched together and perfectly coincided with that last spike? They are trash, like your unprovable theory.

You are taking the effect and making it the cause. Jack understands
Current masks arent working. Mass-wearing of N95 masks is whats needed
 
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