Video Shows MAGA Rioter Throwing Fire Extinguisher At Capitol Police, Striking One In The Head

[Dutch Oven]

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Real time video of the fire extinguisher attack with audio. And no, it was not an underhand throw.

You're right. It's more of a weak shot put motion. It certainly didn't impact with much velocity or force, and it clearly stuck an officer who was wearing a riot helmet and riot gear before it stuck anyone else. The extinguisher also seems to have a cloth sleeve that would have reduced its impact.

 

[versitile1]

Here's a sampling of reporting that that he suffered a stroke that resulted from being struck by a fire extinguisher:

https://www.khou.com/article/news/national/us-capitol-police-officer-dies-stroke-riots/285-0d4f3e9c-63be-4f5b-a8f8-208dbd33a85f#:~:text=WASHINGTON%20%E2%80%94%20A%20police%20officer%20with,force%20and%2040%20years%20old

.

Union: Capitol Police officer on life support after suffering a stroke

Gus Papathanasiou, chairman of the Capitol Police Officers' Union, said on Thursday evening he spoke too soon when he announced the death of a Capitol Police officer.Papathanasiou had said the officer died from a stroke after being on duty Wednesday during the pro-Trump riot on Capitol Hill...

ca.finance.yahoo.com

U.S. Capitol Police Officer Dies from Stroke after Capitol Breach

The news of the officer's death came minutes after US Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund resigned.

www.firefighternation.com

Capitol Police officer dies following pro-Trump riot

Updated: 5:45 a.m. on January 8(CNN) -- The US Capitol Police confirmed the death of one of their officers late Thursday from injuries suffered when a mob of President Donald Trump's supporters stormed t

www.cbs58.com

Capitol Police Officer Brian D. Sicknick Dies After Suffering Injuries During U.S. Capitol Riot

Capitol Police officer has died after he sustained injuries during the riot at the U.S. Capitol Thursday.

baltimore.cbslocal.com

I have seen no confirmation that the footage you posted is of this incident. Have you?

The early reporting on the incident is that he was "struck in the head while physically engaged with protesters". Was that supposed to mean a projectile hit him, but he wasn't struck by the protesters he was engaged with? If it was, it was a pretty strange way of saying it. Just read the multiple posts here on TERB that used the phrase "beaten to death". If this is the footage, I wonder how "officer struck by extinguisher thrown in his general direction that carrommed off another officer" would have played as a narrative compared to the narrative of a direct violent clash?

Be that as it may, since you don't care if I take you seriously, that neatly wraps up the issue from my perspective.

Well, the brain injury, whether it was a stroke or an aneurysm, was caused by a blow to the head from a fire extinguisher. I had only read that the officer had collapsed upon returning to is field office, not what type of brain injury it was.

I still haven’t found an article saying he was struck repeatedly, or beaten, as you seem to believe. Only that he died after collapsing due to a blow to the head.

The FBI wants to talk to him. It’s possible they have evidence that hasn’t been released to the public.

For you to say that was a light underhand throw or weak shot-put or whatever pretty much means you yourself don’t want to be taken seriously.

 

[Valcazar]

Where was it reported that he was “beaten” with the fire extinguisher? All the reports state he was hit on the head with it, not “beaten“. Where was it reported that he had a stroke? All the reports state that the officer collapsed after returning to his field office, not that he had a “stroke”. Reminds me of how that one poster kept saying Heather Heyer died of a heart attack and not because a white supremacist drove his car into her.

So tell me, how are you so sure that this wasn’t the fatal blow, are you a forensic investigator with deep insight into the types of injuries sustained when heavy objects are thrown at people’s heads?

Why would I have to explain myself to you, as to why I posted the video? Why do you post the nonsense you are known for? Why would I care if you take me seriously? Nobody on this site takes you seriously, that’s for sure.

All this is important. I don't think the reporting has ever gone beyond "hit with fire extinguisher". That description has been modified back and forth but outside of "hit with" I don't think much has stayed consistent or been shown to be backed up. Same with the stroke. "Died later" seems solid, but "died from a stroke" seems less so.

That doesn't mean either can't be true or false or partially true. At some point we will presumably get an actual full report with some backing. I know in the news reports I've seen of this incident, the reporters have been careful to say that they can't be sure if this is the incident leading to the death of the officer or even if it is Sicknick being hit.

 

[versitile1]

You're right. It's more of a weak shot put motion. It certainly didn't impact with much velocity or force, and it clearly stuck an officer who was wearing a riot helmet and riot gear before it stuck anyone else. The extinguisher also seems to have a cloth sleeve that would have reduced its impact.

How much does a fire extinguisher weigh? 15 lbs. full? Maybe 8-9 lbs. empty? I’m sure a real forensic investigator has measured the velocity of the fire extinguisher, so you can give up your attempts. And the idea of a cloth covering reducing any impact is ridiculous. Ever heard of a padlock in a sock? Does the sock reduce the impact? And you want to be taken seriously?

 

[versitile1]

All this is important. I don't think the reporting has ever gone beyond "hit with fire extinguisher". That description has been modified back and forth but outside of "hit with" I don't think much has stayed consistent or been shown to be backed up. Same with the stroke. "Died later" seems solid, but "died from a stroke" seems less so.

That doesn't mean either can't be true or false or partially true. At some point we will presumably get an actual full report with some backing. I know in the news reports I've seen of this incident, the reporters have been careful to say that they can't be sure if this is the incident leading to the death of the officer or even if it is Sicknick being hit.

Yeah, you and I know that this is most likely the attack that killed Officer Sicknick, unless there were multiple officers being struck on the head with fire extinguishers.

 

[Valcazar]

Yeah, you and I know that this is most likely the attack that killed Officer Sicknick, unless there were multiple officers being struck on the head with fire extinguishers.

It wouldn't surprise me if there are, honestly. But yes, this is at the very least a strong contender for being that attack.
Looking over Dutch's links, I think "stroke" is more solid than I originally thought since it got reported by the police liaisons themselves.

 

[versitile1]

It wouldn't surprise me if there are, honestly. But yes, this is at the very least a strong contender for being that attack.
Looking over Dutch's links, I think "stroke" is more solid than I originally thought since it got reported by the police liaisons themselves.

Either way, it was from the blow to the head from a fire extinguisher that caused Officer Sicknick’s death.

 

[mandrill]

It wouldn't surprise me if there are, honestly. But yes, this is at the very least a strong contender for being that attack.
Looking over Dutch's links, I think "stroke" is more solid than I originally thought since it got reported by the police liaisons themselves.

Except the police liaisons are not doctors. If he got banged on the head with a heavy object, walked around with a headache for a while and then suddenly died, I'm guessing internal bleeding in the brain, ruptured blood vessels. I'm not getting stroke.

 

[Valcazar]

Either way, it was from the blow to the head from a fire extinguisher that caused Officer Sicknick’s death.

It's a reasonable inference, although there is always the possibility an autopsy will reveal something surprising.

 

[Valcazar]

Except the police liaisons are not doctors. If he got banged on the head with a heavy object, walked around with a headache for a while and then suddenly died, I'm guessing internal bleeding in the brain, ruptured blood vessels. I'm not getting stroke.

Fair, the various head traumas could look similar. I'm content with using "stroke" for now. Stroke shortly after serious head injury is a known thing, so it isn't like it is a serious argument for saying the attacker has no liability.

 

[Dutch Oven]

For you to say that was a light underhand throw or weak shot-put or whatever pretty much means you yourself don’t want to be taken seriously.

For me to say the extinguisher in this video wasn't thrown with much force means I think accuracy just might be important when it comes to inflammatory incidents.

Of course, this might turn out not to be video of the incident leading to Sicknick's death, which was my original question to you.

 

[Dutch Oven]

Fair, the various head traumas could look similar. I'm content with using "stroke" for now. Stroke shortly after serious head injury is a known thing, so it isn't like it is a serious argument for saying the attacker has no liability.

I don't think anyone is arguing that there would be no liability for a death caused, even inadvertently, by throwing something, with no legal justification, at a police officer who was just doing their job. However, would you say it makes no difference to the political narrative of this incident if the only serious injury inflicted by protesters happened through some combination of wilfull recklessness and bad luck on the part of a single person, as opposed to a narrative of a co-ordinated attack which included the intentional targeting and assault of police officers with specific intent to injure/kill them? Would it make no difference to you that things are thrown at political demonstrations all the time, but hardly ever with deadly effect?

 

[versitile1]

For me to say the extinguisher in this video wasn't thrown with much force means I think accuracy just might be important when it comes to inflammatory incidents.

So you consider assaulting a police officer with a weapon, at the very least, merely an “inflammatory incident”? You don’t want to be taken seriously, do you?

Of course, this might turn out not to be video of the incident leading to Sicknick's death, which was my original question to you.

It may or it may not. The FBI will find this individual and the public will learn more. I post what I want, if you don’t like it, don’t click the link.

 

[mandrill]

I don't think anyone is arguing that there would be no liability for a death caused, even inadvertently, by throwing something, with no legal justification, at a police officer who was just doing their job. However, would you say it makes no difference to the political narrative of this incident if the only serious injury inflicted by protesters happened through some combination of wilfull recklessness and bad luck on the part of a single person, as opposed to a narrative of a co-ordinated attack which included the intentional targeting and assault of police officers with specific intent to injure/kill them? Would it make no difference to you that things are thrown at political demonstrations all the time, but hardly ever with deadly effect?

Try one of your arguments in front of a real judge some time, Dutch. Especially in a case involving the murder of an on duty cop.

Once is all it would take.

 

[Dutch Oven]

How much does a fire extinguisher weigh? 15 lbs. full? Maybe 8-9 lbs. empty? I’m sure a real forensic investigator has measured the velocity of the fire extinguisher, so you can give up your attempts. And the idea of a cloth covering reducing any impact is ridiculous. Ever heard of a padlock in a sock? Does the sock reduce the impact? And you want to be taken seriously?

Yes, the degree to which an object can deflect from the vector of collision has a direct effect on the amount of force transferred to the object it collides with. A projectile with a hard exterior surface and rough edges is less likely to deflect at the point of impact than a smoother hard object covered by a softer displaceable exterior. And then, in addition, there is the cushioning effect of whatever the covering is.

Basic physics. A soft covering operates in the same way as grease. That's why boxers put vaseline on the faces. To reduce the force of punches that are landed.

And yes, striking someone with a padlock in a sock would transfer less force than hitting someone with an uncovered padlock at the end of a chain of equal length to the sock.

 

[Valcazar]

Try one of your arguments in front of a real judge some time, Dutch. Especially in a case involving the murder of an on duty cop.

Once is all it would take.

You've already made the main point. Dutch is right, though, that the political narrative of "riots got out of hand and a bad luck shot accidentally killed someone" is different than "they turned on the cop and beat them to death".

We do seem to have footage of a cop being severely beaten by the crowd, but as far as I know that person survived. They may die of later injuries, I don't know what condition they are in.

 

[Dutch Oven]

So you consider assaulting a police officer with a weapon, at the very least, merely an “inflammatory incident”? You don’t want to be taken seriously, do you?

Let me put it into context for you. If no one had been harmed and no signficant property damage had occurred, wouldn't this occupation have been viewed the same way the illegal occupation of the Capital that occurred during the Kavanaugh hearing was? Civil unrest, but not really that big a deal? It's the death of Sicknick that inflames the narrative of what happened. Therefore, it's important to understand how and why it happened. Does it demonstrate that lawmakers were in peril and were lucky to escape the fate of that officer, or does it demonstrate that terrible but undesired things can happen during large protests, despite whatever the more benign intentions of protesters might be.

 

[Dutch Oven]

Try one of your arguments in front of a real judge some time, Dutch. Especially in a case involving the murder of an on duty cop.

Once is all it would take.

It isn't a legal defence. It's a political issue.

 

[mandrill]

Let me put into context for you. If no one had been harmed and no signficant property damage had occurred, wouldn't this occupation have been viewed the same way the illegal occupation of the Capital that occurred during the Kavanaugh hearing was? Civil unrest, but not really that big a deal? It's the death of Sicknick that inflames the narrative of what happened. Therefore, it's important to understand how and why it happened. Does it demonstrate that lawmakers were in peril and were lucky to escape the fate of that officer, or does it demonstrate that terrible but undesired things can happen during large protests, despite whatever the more benign intentions of protesters might be.

IIRC, the Kavanaugh occupiers were a handful of observers who became obstreperous and were removed.

That's a long way from a violent storming and seizure by a massive armed mob.

 

[Fun For All]

You've already made the main point. Dutch is right, though, that the political narrative of "riots got out of hand and a bad luck shot accidentally killed someone" is different than "they turned on the cop and beat them to death".

We do seem to have footage of a cop being severely beaten by the crowd, but as far as I know that person survived. They may day of later injuries, I don't know what condition they are in.

Good people on both sides I guess...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/police-capitol-injuires-trump/2021/01/11/ca68e3e2-5438-11eb-a08b-f1381ef3d207_story.html