NSNC What’s going on in Ottawa/Gatineau region. A provider point of view.

[Theredmilf]

Now to answer your question - I don't see a simple solution to this issue. I completely understand your point of view as a provider. Having clients waste your time and cost you money sucks big time. It pisses me off that clients do this. Sadly I guess it makes providers suspicious of all clients. I can honestly say I very rarely cancel and if I do I always call. The once or twice that I have cancelled last minute I have always offered compensation.

Having said that, my limited experience as a client is that paying in advance has not gone well. I have done it only twice but both times have resulted in me losing the money. The reputation of the lady hasn't made a difference. Both providers were quite well known in the business. In fact, one is probably one the most well known providers (based on her twitter following, etc.) in eastern Canada. After all, it's not like I would have sent money to a provider without a well established history.

Due to this experience, I don't plan to pay a deposit again. Some have pointed out that the safety of providers is more important than taking the chance of losing money. As much as I agree, I lost about $1200 on my two attempts and I'm not in a position to do this on a regular basis. As someone else said, I may lose out on meeting some great providers but I can live with that more easily than potentially losing in the thousands of dollars every year.

I saw your tweet about requiring deposits. As much as I would encourage you not to do that, I also totally understand that you might say you can live with not meeting some good clients if that saves you having your time and income compromised by bad ones. I would quite likely do the same thing in your situation.

As far as solutions, the best I can think of is to stick to good, reliable regulars as much as possible. As a client, that has been my approach for awhile now and will be 100% for me moving forward, given the way this business is going. I do think references are another good way to avoid time wasters and rip offs. This can be problematic sometimes because not everyone likes to give references. Tbh, I'm not sure there is a solution to this unfortunately. It's too bad more people couldn't be respectful and reasonable.

Just to concur with Tara & Allison on this, I’m really sorry that happened; It’s upsetting to hear these stories & I wouldn’t be interested in associating with other providers who do shady and fraudulent business. I’ve worked too hard to build myself to a point where clients trust me. No deposit is worth harming our reputations over. I think what we mean by reputable providers is maybe a little different than what it might mean from a client perspective though. I’m talking about those who are respected among their peers and colleagues, not just clients. A provider can have good reviews a following online and professional photos, but that doesn’t necessarily speak of their integrity.

No one is perfect but those of us who really care about client-service and take this industry seriously tend to create networks and alliances, cross-promote & refer one another. Our clients rely on us to keep them, not just happy, but safe.

Twitter is a great opportunity for you guys to observe us, get to know who we are, who and what we associate with. Maybe consider broadening your selection criteria beyond body shape and hair colour to include values of kindness & integrity? This is a fun, playful hobby but it’s also an investment. Try to put your investments in businesses that are ethical and will give you returns.

 

[Alison_xox]

Very well said @Theredmilf ,
I couldn’t phrase it better.

 

[boomboom]

Just to concur with Tara & Allison on this, I’m really sorry that happened; It’s upsetting to hear these stories & I wouldn’t be interested in associating with other providers who do shady and fraudulent business. I’ve worked too hard to build myself to a point where clients trust me. No deposit is worth harming our reputations over. I think what we mean by reputable providers is maybe a little different than what it might mean from a client perspective though. I’m talking about those who are respected among their peers and colleagues, not just clients. A provider can have good reviews a following online and professional photos, but that doesn’t necessarily speak of their integrity.

No one is perfect but those of us who really care about client-service and take this industry seriously tend to create networks and alliances, cross-promote & refer one another. Our clients rely on us to keep them, not just happy, but safe.

Twitter is a great opportunity for you guys to observe us, get to know who we are, who and what we associate with. Maybe consider broadening your selection criteria beyond body shape and hair colour to include values of kindness & integrity? This is a fun, playful hobby but it’s also an investment. Try to put your investments in businesses that are ethical and will give you returns.

very well said in deed
Plus I know from watching OIC, that it is a great site & very trustworthy members or SP who advt with them. I would have no issue doing a deposit with any of the OIC members.
well done to them on their site & how they run things
Someday when things clear, I will be making a road trip to Ottawa area as its the same distance for me to travel to Toronto area as it is Ottawa. Ottawa is lucky to have a group like OIC.
Boom

 

[dynomyte]

I stick to OIC, CMJ, and a bit of Brass for these reasons. As clients, we are fortunate to have these reputable places to find ladies and we have twitter and Terb to do our research in order to minimize the risk. As far as I know, the providers do not have the same available resources. When they go on terb or twitter, they really do not get a sense of who these potential clients are. I know that there was talk of doing something like the GFE MA list for clients but not sure if that has happened. They really are limited in protecting themselves from scammers and bad dates which means that some have felt that deposits and/or screening are necessary.

 

[itd131]

You could post screenshots of the conversations that led to your supposed robberies with names edited out, and there would be no chance of blowback. You could post a general description of what happened to you.

Not true actually.

The motivation for a person to make something like that up or to exaggerate would be to contribute to the anti-deposit discourse. That's not a stretch.

Yes, it’s true, I pointed out to Alison my experience and hesitation when it comes to deposits and why for some clients they are problematic. Yes, I guess I did “contribute to the anti-deposit discourse,” although I also said I completely understand why some providers ask for them.

People signal boost the things they believe in or the things they want to happen all the time.

Like you are doing right now I guess?
And here:

https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/deposit-for-sw.727458/#post-6840047

And here:

https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/aly-ivy-kiara-maya-fox-514-294-1705-438-896-5599-ottawa-tour-deposit-scam.703992/#post-6624032

And here:

https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/appointment-deposit.665704/page-2#post-6614403

And to your last point, I think providers would find this board much more tolerable if every thread like this didn't result in clients like you trying to talk over their concerns and make immediate counterpoints. Instead of simply empathizing with someone suffering from NSNC's and leaving it at that, someone always has to come in squawking "Well, we suffer tooooooo!".

Thank you TigerFlex5 for addressing this already.

Even if your story is true, which I obviously question, do you honestly think it's worth sharing, or applicable to the vast majority of people engaged in sending and/or receiving deposits?

Yes, or I wouldn't have posted it. I’m not saying it’s the whole story but it’s something to be aware of.
Although a lot gets deleted these days, anyone who has been on this board for awhile has seen this come up over the years, like in the linked threads.

I sent more in deposits during 2020 than you "lost," and they all led to successful, enjoyable bookings. That's what usually happens when a companion collects deposits.

This is some relevant input - at least it would be if I believed you were a client. If I use your approach, I guess this is where I would accuse you of being part of the “anti-pay in person discourse,” call you a liar and demand you provide a list of names and screen shots of all the money you send in advance lol.

 

[itd131]

Just to concur with Tara & Allison on this, I’m really sorry that happened; It’s upsetting to hear these stories & I wouldn’t be interested in associating with other providers who do shady and fraudulent business. I’ve worked too hard to build myself to a point where clients trust me. No deposit is worth harming our reputations over. I think what we mean by reputable providers is maybe a little different than what it might mean from a client perspective though. I’m talking about those who are respected among their peers and colleagues, not just clients. A provider can have good reviews a following online and professional photos, but that doesn’t necessarily speak of their integrity.

No one is perfect but those of us who really care about client-service and take this industry seriously tend to create networks and alliances, cross-promote & refer one another. Our clients rely on us to keep them, not just happy, but safe.

Twitter is a great opportunity for you guys to observe us, get to know who we are, who and what we associate with. Maybe consider broadening your selection criteria beyond body shape and hair colour to include values of kindness & integrity? This is a fun, playful hobby but it’s also an investment. Try to put your investments in businesses that are ethical and will give you returns.

Thanks for your comments Ruby. I should clarify that I did not intend to paint all providers with the same brush. I only meant to point out why deposits can be problematic and warn other clients to be careful. Being selective is definitely important but even so it’s really hard to know who to trust. I don’t doubt for a second that there are providers with integrity who run an honest business. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the three providers who have commented on this thread are OIC members. Your organization is unique and should be commended for its value and client statements. You are raising the bar as many have noted. I’m not sure if you know my handle but we have met before so I know you are an A list professional. For those who are considering paying a deposit - an OIC member is a smart place to start, IMHO.

 

[gibarian]

Not true actually.

Why not? You think the provider in question has such malice towards you that she's constantly combing TERB for anonymous anecdotes that that sound like what happened between you two?

The fact that you won't even tell your story in general terms is suspicious. Do we agree that there are certain behaviours a client could undertake (after making a deposit) that would give a provider legitimate cause to terminate the booking? Things that run the gamut from asking for unsafe services, to last-minute rescheduling, to refusing to follow up with agreed-to screening procedures, to other violations of the provider's booking instructions, etc.

If we agree that these things *do* exist, and your story still goes no further than "I was ripped off and did nothing wrong" then I think it's quite obvious why any fair-minded person would take your claims with a grain of salt.

Like you are doing right now I guess?
And here:

https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/deposit-for-sw.727458/#post-6840047

And here:

https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/aly-ivy-kiara-maya-fox-514-294-1705-438-896-5599-ottawa-tour-deposit-scam.703992/#post-6624032

And here:

https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/appointment-deposit.665704/page-2#post-6614403

Yes, like that. Any time I see a conversation veer in the direction of "deposits are inherently unfair and dangerous" I will challenge that lie.

This is some relevant input - at least it would be if I believed you were a client. If I use your approach, I guess this is where I would accuse you of being part of the “anti-pay in person discourse,” call you a liar and demand you provide a list of names and screen shots of all the money you send in advance lol.

I mean, I could quite easily take a bunch of screenshots of my bank account showing sent deposits (with the providers names edited out, especially those who use civilian accounts for receiving payments). You' just accuse me of Photoshopping them, or taking screenshots of miscellaneous transactions that weren't going to SWs. As you said, you can't even believe that I'm a client simply because I defend SWs who have policies in place to protect themselves. I could also very easily provide a general descriptions of some of the deposits I've sent. Here's a sample: I prepaid for a ~2K overnight at the beginning of lockdown, and also sent another person 800 towards a post-lockdown date (and saw these two people in July and in September). I currently have an 800 pre-payment placed with someone else for a date in (hopefully) the early spring. These are all people I'd met before, so there's a level of comfort and trust there, but I also sent all of them deposits prior to our original meetings. Two of the three people have mandatory deposits for first-time clients, which I complied with. The third person doesn't, but I offered (because our first date was planned like a month out and I wanted her to assume I was reliable) and she accepted. In all of these cases the deposits were done through eTransfer. Last November I sent someone's deposit via Apple gift card, though, because she was saving for a new phone and asked for that format. That is a brief description of a small handful of the many deposits I've sent; where's you brief description about what happened to you?

Edit: Oh, forgot another relevant one! I sent a 200 deposit to someone in Montreal who seems really cool and was tentatively planning a tour here. You want to know why she hasn't come through yet? Because I was the only Ottawa guy among dozens of inquiries she got who was actually willing to put my money where my mouth was, in this town infamous for its NSNC dolts. I'm probably going to have to go see her in Montreal post-lockdown, because she doesn't want to tour here on the empty words of impulsive DM-suitors on Twitter.

 

[Theredmilf]

Thanks for your comments Ruby. I should clarify that I did not intend to paint all providers with the same brush. I only meant to point out why deposits can be problematic and warn other clients to be careful. Being selective is definitely important but even so it’s really hard to know who to trust. I don’t doubt for a second that there are providers with integrity who run an honest business. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the three providers who have commented on this thread are OIC members. Your organization is unique and should be commended for its value and client statements. You are raising the bar as many have noted. I’m not sure if you know my handle but we have met before so I know you are an A list professional. For those who are considering paying a deposit - an OIC member is a smart place to start, IMHO.

Thanks for that. Honestly, what you’re saying is really relatable. I’ve been burned too by providers in different contexts so get that we all have to be cautious. I rely a lot on my network to help steer me in the right direction of who to trust and would definitely not just hand over large sums to someone I didn’t already know personally or through their reputation among us. Hopefully we’re helping you guys better identify where to let your guard down a bit and where to ask more questions.

That being said, engaging a SW carries the same risks as we accept without panic in many other areas of life. If I could recover all the sums I’ve lost over the years to bad lawyers alone I would probably be able to invite you to my villa in the Caribbean for the weekend! And so if you don’t feel 100% trust, I can completely understand maybe only offering a small deposit or finding and alternate method to demonstrate your reliability. But most businesses do expect some financial assurances, especially and ironically the ones you can trust the most.

I have my own policies but flex them too based on the situation. At times I might wave a deposit and other times, if something smells off, I might insist on more assurances than normal. We get better at reading people the more we talk to one another. Those who draw a hard line with me on my policies are the least likely to get any flex though, if you’re asking me to bend a bit, I should be able to ask the same. This is a mutual engagement, we share both the risks and the pleasures when it goes right. Thankfully, in my little world, it mostly goes right and for that I am especially grateful.

Sorry again you lost a large sum, I wish there was a way to make it right for you even though I wasn’t involved. Integrity to me means delivering on my promises and expecting the same from my colleagues. My door is always open if I can help.

 

[TigerFlex5]

Ok, Gibarian, we got it, you made your points: You don't like people who refuse deposits and you hate itd131... Chill-out Bro...

Anyway, nice thread... Thank you Alison for starting it and I just read your story on Twitter, I'm so sorry this happend to you.

At the end of the day, the question of NSNC is not simple and I think providers have extremely valid points for asking for more guarantee when meeting new clients, but clients have also extremely valid points to fear for their privacy. I understand the limits and extend of the collaboration among providers, I wish, in the upcoming time, you guys will increase that collaboration in order to trust more each others screenings and you guys clear more clients without asking for deposit.

I also want to thanks Tara and Ruby, your contributions/answers are, as usual, extremely well written and although I've always been against deposits for privacy purposes, I was unaware of the process with gifts cards (never use it...) - Thank you for educate me. I can now put back on my radar some of the great reputable providers that I gave up because of they asked for deposit. It's a great new for 2021 .

I think everything had been said and I hope we will continue those civilian debats in 2021.

Happy holidays all.

 

[William St]

Hi everyone,

I am posting it here because I would like to understand the client point of view on a topic that’s have a big impact on the industry in Ottawa/Gatineau region these last couple of years.

As you all already know , I have been working in the industry for a long time. I’ve took part of many healthy debates here and I think I have a good reputation of expressing myself in a neutral way. Of been able to step in clients shoes in order to see from their point of view and not just from my side of the industry.

We have spoken about NSNC , screening , deposit ect ..

Now I have a situation that’s bothering me a lot. Probably not just me , but a lot providers as well. I will let them step in if they wish to express themself on the matter.

The famous NSNC

As providers , we have to manage our schedule , book our clients and try to accommodate as much as possible in order to make everyone happy.
I hate that moment when I have to ask for a deposit because NO CLIENT EVER enjoys sending money for services beforehand. This is a known fact and we are very aware of that fact.
It’s risky for clients because they don’t know if we’ll just run with their money or scam them or share their personal infos.
I totally get it..

But Ottawa have a serious problem of NSNC. It’s not just once in a while or occasional.. No..no..no , it’s a regular , everyday , more and more often pain in the ass that us provider need to deal with on a regular basis.

Now , you would think that a provider would be able to expect her long time regulars to be trustworthy, but in full honesty , it happens that regulars will NSNC as well. Those are the ones that pisses you off the most because you would never expect that nice , well mannered and so respectful client to do that.

It became such a regular problem that we don’t know what to do about it anymore.
The worse it that we don’t want to have to ask everyone for a deposit , but eventually, it will have to come to this.

In a perfect world , the bad apples wouldn’t screw it for all the good ones , but how do you make the difference between a bad apple and a good one ?

I want your opinion on this one.
Do you guy sometimes NSNC ? Is it only in Ottawa region or is it everywhere ?
I never tour so I have no idea how it is outside of here. Maybe touring providers could step in and let us know.

P.s Hopefully I didn’t misspelled too much. French girl here. Excusez mon français

I've never failed to show, and I'm usually a few minutes early. On the opposite side I've had SPs put me off indefinitely or "ghost" me entirely. Not often; the majority are punctual and responsible. But it's happened often enough to be annoying.

 

[rhull]

Any thoughts on what makes Ottawa-based clients more prone to NSNC?

 

[Jiffy Pop]

This is an interesting thread so far. Just in case we have new members reading this thread I would highly recommend to them to not reply to gibarian.

 

[asspirate]

The NSNC are likely not even on Terb

 

[Lickylick]

If this law comes in to play, Bill S - 203.
https://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=E&billId=10873545
Providers will have to find a new ways to advertise, which may prove beneficial with the NCNS problem. One will have to have their age verified to view adult content such as escort ads.

NCNS are a thing and will continue, until providers start working together and create standards for the industry. OIC from what I can see as the right idea, independent women working together to make their jobs safer. If providers started working together instead of chasing the same clients.

This new law will change the way things are done let's hope it's not a hurdle for providers.

 

[Lickylick]

I don’t know about you guys but Gibarian comes across as a kid in his parent’s basement with Aspergers.

I suffer from adult Aspergers and it's not a joking matter, it can be very debilitating. You sound like the school yard bully.

If you're only going to post an insult, rather then contribute, keep it to yourself.

 

[westcityside]

It's been weeks since we've had an interesting thread here, thanks to everyone for participating.

 

[Alison_xox]

Well it's been very interesting to read everyone's point of view.
I am glad that we had that conversation.
It seems like Providers & clients can discuss important matters and that we have more in commun that we though.
I am also extremely happy that Oic have been mentioned many times in a very flattering way.
We are indeed very supportive of each other and I guess it shows
We can also be very protective of our clientele and will react if one of our clients get scammed or stolen from.
You can be assured that Oic members are all professional and honest.

I would also thank everyone for being so supportive and positive concerning the deposit. I wasn't expecting you guys to be so open to the idea.
The fact that we had the opportunity to clarify that we have many different ways in order for our clients to remain confidential helped a lot as well. ( Gift cards, Pre-paid credit cards ect...).

This thread gave me the opportunity to see from a client's perspective and to adjust my business.

I also understand how hard it is for you guys to be able to trust our advertisement since it's so much scams and fakes on advertisement platforms.
It was meant to be since recently , Leolist contacted me in order to get my suggestions in order to make the platform better.
Well I suggested that they offer a link to our twitter page on our ads so you guys can easily have access to verify if we look legit or not.
A provider with a lot followers , advertisement , with an account that's been active for years and a lot of activity and links to our websites ect.. could be beneficial in order to make you feel safer.
Also , I suggested that they offer an option for our clients to send us money anonymously on our leolist giftcards that we can use to advertise.
So it would be easy to make a deposit by simply filling up our Leolist giftcards without sharing your personal infos with the providers.

I don't know if they will take my suggestions seriously , but it cost me zero $$ to try.

Thanks again and hopefully 2021 will be a great year for the industry.
I guess it would be hard to make it worse than 2020 .... Hahah

 

[jay_j]

I have never done a NSNC. I have been late for a session or 2 and texted my eta.
This is a question of respect and it goes both ways. While I have not done NSNC, i have had SPs unfortunately do this.

As for your question, I applaud you trying to find a solution. I would just urge lots of caution in finding a solution that does not penalize those of us that are responsible, respectful and on time. IMHO, cash transaction, face to face, insures privacy and remains the best option. Many of us can't do or are not interested in doing etransfer or deposit. I think it is the prerogative of the SP to establish rules for repeat offenders (rules that may result in less business). And perhaps incentives for those that are responsible and respectful on a consistent basis to show appreciation and promote the best of behaviors.

This is after all client service.

 

[Alison_xox]

I was ignoring the fact that some of us got completely out of topic , but now I feel like someone’s being bullied and I don’t like it.
This thread is a place of peace. Everybody can express their point of view without feeling judged or criticized.

I simply suggest that if someone doesn’t like someone else’s opinion , simply scroll down without arguments.
Everybody’s allowed to their opinion and we MUST respect EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION please.

This is the first thread with a serious topic since Terb new rules and I would love it to stay active without going into a shit show.

So now , if we may go back to what the thread was meant to ...It would be appreciated

Thank you xxx

 

[Jiffy Pop]

First of all I had no idea Terb had new rules in place. For me this as been a good forum over the years for the exchange of information. I know over the last few years we have lost a number of great contributors but it is still a good place for info. Last Alison is right and I kind of feel bad about it. Just want to apologize to ITD131 I should of posted something right away when you got bullied and got called a liar. These days even before Covid I am not active in the hobby so I just usually read threads and not reply but that was blatant.