Some masks better than others

lenny2

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Jan 18, 2012
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Yes it does show an upward trend plus a 2nd wave.
Regardless of your opinion there, the fact remains your claim that a rise in infections proves masks don't work is a baseless argument that has no merit:

You have no evidence that coviodicy did cause a rise either.
You have no evidence that covidiocy, or any number of other factors working together, didn't cause the rise in infections in the fall. Did the rise in infections just happen for no reason? Is that your argument? Like i said:

As for infections increasing in the fall in many places, this was predicted by health experts as schools reopened, more people went back to work, more went indoors in cold weather to closer quarters in rooms often with poor ventilation. The varying rates of covidiocy, irresponsibility & lockdown fatigue are among other factors (e.g. Thanksgiving gatherings) that affect the number of infections. Without masks, whose effectiveness is scientifically supported, the fall infections increase would be way worse.

Who wears masks at home? As i quoted:

"The cold in northern parts of America will push people back inside, where the virus has a much easier time spreading than the outdoors."

So all it takes for infections to rise is people spending more time indoors.
 

lenny2

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Jan 18, 2012
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Another factor that may be driving the increase in Ontario's C-19 infections:

"Ontario's licensed daycare centres open at full capacity":


"...POSTED SEP 1, 2020 6:48 AM EST


 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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Regardless of your opinion there, the fact remains your claim that a rise in infections proves masks don't work is a baseless argument that has no merit
So are you now abandoning your argument there is no 2nd wave in Ontario, and focusing on masks again??

You have no evidence that covidiocy, or any number of other factors working together, didn't cause the rise in infections in the fall
You're the one who claimed a rise in coviodicy caused (or was part of a cause in) a rise in new infections.
Please show official stats that support this theory of yours
 

MissCroft

Sweetie Pie
Feb 23, 2004
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From a thread back in April:

Bars closing forever? Good riddance. May 100% of them close & never reopen.

Ditto for liquor stores, airlines, motor vehicle plants & other many businesses that lead to pollution, ill health & death.

Restaurants serving greasy food that is detrimental to human beings? RIP for eternity, never to be seen again.
With all due respect, it sounds like you really enjoy and want lockdowns for other reasons besides Covid-19.
 
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lenny2

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With all due respect, it sounds like you really enjoy and want lockdowns for other reasons besides Covid-19.
My comment you quoted didn't even mention lockdowns. It was all about things that are detrimental to people's health.
 

lenny2

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Jan 18, 2012
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So are you now abandoning your argument there is no 2nd wave in Ontario, and focusing on masks again??
I didn't state there is no second wave in Ontario. And the OP is about masks not working while the present subtopic is regarding your ridiculous & false claim that a rise in Ontario infections proves masks don't work.

That's like the dumbness of saying a rise in any one place at any time in deaths from bicycle or motor cycle accidents proves that brakes & helmets don't work.

That's like the stupidity of saying a rise in any one place at any time in STIs from sexual activities proves that safe sex and condoms don't work.

That's like the ignorance & faulty logic of saying a rise in any one place at any time in deaths from motor vehicle accidents proves that seat belts & airbags don't work.

The fact is without those safety measures, just like without masks, the number of deaths would be even worse, even higher.

You're the one who claimed a rise in coviodicy caused (or was part of a cause in) a rise in new infections.
Please show official stats that support this theory of yours
Show me official stats that oppose the view i stated:

As for infections increasing in the fall in many places, this was predicted by health experts as schools reopened, more people went back to work, more went indoors in cold weather to closer quarters in rooms often with poor ventilation. The varying rates of covidiocy, irresponsibility & lockdown fatigue are among other factors (e.g. Thanksgiving gatherings) that affect the number of infections. Without masks, whose effectiveness is scientifically supported, the fall infections increase would be way worse.

You have no evidence that covidiocy, or any number of factors working together, didn't cause the rise in infections in the fall. Did the rise in infections just happen for no reason? Is that your argument? Like i said:

As for infections increasing in the fall in many places, this was predicted by health experts as schools reopened, more people went back to work, more went indoors in cold weather to closer quarters in rooms often with poor ventilation. The varying rates of covidiocy, irresponsibility & lockdown fatigue are among other factors (e.g. Thanksgiving gatherings) that affect the number of infections. Without masks, whose effectiveness is scientifically supported, the fall infections increase would be way worse.

Who wears masks at home? As i quoted:

"The cold in northern parts of America will push people back inside, where the virus has a much easier time spreading than the outdoors."

So all it takes for infections to rise is people spending more time indoors. Have people been doing that? With the start of the NFL season were more people staying home to watch the games?

You're the one who claimed a rise in coviodicy caused (or was part of a cause in) a rise in new infections.
Please show official stats that support this theory of yours
If people acting less safely didn't cause the increase in infections, then in your view what caused the increase in infections? What else could be the cause of an increase in infections? Did they just increase by magic or hocus pocus or ghosts or something? LOL. You keep avoiding answering this line of questioning. Why is that? Is it starting to dawn on you how ridiculous your alleged proof that "masks don't work" (because infections went up) is?

If infections going up proves masks don't work, then shouldn't you conclude that when infections have gone down it proves that masks do work? This also exposes how ridiculous your alleged "proof" is.

Record high 1,050 new cases today, while testing has dropped. But yeah masks are working great.....LOL

Logical fallacy. You keep making the same error repeatedly. And repeatedly not getting it.

No one ever claimed masks will stop a rise in infections even when people are behaving more dangerously.

What did you expect would happen when people act in ways that increase their risk for infections? Of course the number of infections will go up.

Do you think the number of infections just go up for no reason? By magic, or something? LOL.

"Face mask mandates slowed the spread of COVID-19 in Canada"

"... This column evaluates the impact of mask mandates on the spread of COVID-19 in Canada, using the different timings that masks were mandated across the 34 health districts of the province of Ontario. Mask mandates are associated with a 25% or larger weekly reduction in new COVID-19 cases in July and August, relative to the absence of mandates.



Further re this topic:

 
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MissCroft

Sweetie Pie
Feb 23, 2004
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My comment you quoted didn't even mention lockdowns. It was all about things that are detrimental to people's health.

It was your post in a thread about businesses permanently closing due to the lockdown.


Or you can click on your name where I quoted you and it will take you directly to your post.

I don't want to argue and, to be fair, it was back in April. You may not remember or maybe you were upset when you posted it. I don't know. Sorry. :(
 
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lenny2

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Jan 18, 2012
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It was your post in a thread about businesses permanently closing due to the lockdown.


Or you can click on your name where I quoted you and it will take you directly to your post.

I don't want to argue and, to be fair, it was back in April. You may not remember or maybe you were upset when you posted it. I don't know. Sorry. :(
You had said:

"With all due respect, it sounds like you really enjoy and want lockdowns for other reasons besides Covid-19."

Surely you can see the difference between (1) "enjoy[ing]...lockdowns" for C-19 that close most of the entire economy & (2) being glad to get rid of certain specific businesses that are detrimental to people's health.

Is there anyone who wants & would enjoy the vast majority of the population to be locked down at home forever? Maybe some lunatics out there?
 

MissCroft

Sweetie Pie
Feb 23, 2004
7,113
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Toronto
Is there anyone who wants & would enjoy the vast majority of the population to be locked down at home forever? Maybe some lunatics out there?
In many of your posts in this subforum, you repeatedly state all of the benefits of the lockdown. Over and over, ad nauseum.

And wishing that all bars, airlines, motor vehicle plants, and other businesses that are "detrimental" to people's health should be closed forever and "good riddance"...... really? With all due respect, you do not decide what's detrimental for others.

Anyway, I'm done arguing as I've decided it's detrimental to my health. No hard feelings.

I'm not going to post anymore in this section. It's too depressing and there's too much bickering.
 
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TeeJay

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Jun 20, 2011
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lenny and people like him are crying about Fords new decision

Lockdowns over unless 10%+
T that high a rate tracing is impossible and public health has no idea what is happening

Covid is declared over and people told live with it
 

Fun For All

Well-known member
Feb 9, 2014
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lenny and people like him are crying about Fords new decision

Lockdowns over unless 10%+
T that high a rate tracing is impossible and public health has no idea what is happening

Covid is declared over and people told live with it
I’ve been saying all along that we should be listening to you and not the Public Health doctors.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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I didn't state there is no second wave in Ontario. And the OP is about masks not working while the present subtopic is regarding your ridiculous & false claim that a rise in Ontario infections proves masks don't work.

That's like the dumbness of saying a rise in any one place at any time in deaths from bicycle or motor cycle accidents proves that brakes & helmets don't work.

That's like the stupidity of saying a rise in any one place at any time in STIs from sexual activities proves that safe sex and condoms don't work.

That's like the ignorance & faulty logic of saying a rise in any one place at any time in deaths from motor vehicle accidents proves that seat belts & airbags don't work.

The fact is without those safety measures, just like without masks, the number of deaths would be even worse, even higher.



Show me official stats that oppose the view i stated:

As for infections increasing in the fall in many places, this was predicted by health experts as schools reopened, more people went back to work, more went indoors in cold weather to closer quarters in rooms often with poor ventilation. The varying rates of covidiocy, irresponsibility & lockdown fatigue are among other factors (e.g. Thanksgiving gatherings) that affect the number of infections. Without masks, whose effectiveness is scientifically supported, the fall infections increase would be way worse.

You have no evidence that covidiocy, or any number of factors working together, didn't cause the rise in infections in the fall. Did the rise in infections just happen for no reason? Is that your argument? Like i said:

As for infections increasing in the fall in many places, this was predicted by health experts as schools reopened, more people went back to work, more went indoors in cold weather to closer quarters in rooms often with poor ventilation. The varying rates of covidiocy, irresponsibility & lockdown fatigue are among other factors (e.g. Thanksgiving gatherings) that affect the number of infections. Without masks, whose effectiveness is scientifically supported, the fall infections increase would be way worse.

Who wears masks at home? As i quoted:

"The cold in northern parts of America will push people back inside, where the virus has a much easier time spreading than the outdoors."

So all it takes for infections to rise is people spending more time indoors. Have people been doing that? With the start of the NFL season were more people staying home to watch the games?



If people acting less safely didn't cause the increase in infections, then in your view what caused the increase in infections? What else could be the cause of an increase in infections? Did they just increase by magic or hocus pocus or ghosts or something? LOL. You keep avoiding answering this line of questioning. Why is that? Is it starting to dawn on you how ridiculous your alleged proof that "masks don't work" (because infections went up) is?

If infections going up proves masks don't work, then shouldn't you conclude that when infections have gone down it proves that masks do work? This also exposes how ridiculous your alleged "proof" is.



Logical fallacy. You keep making the same error repeatedly. And repeatedly not getting it.

No one ever claimed masks will stop a rise in infections even when people are behaving more dangerously.

What did you expect would happen when people act in ways that increase their risk for infections? Of course the number of infections will go up.

Do you think the number of infections just go up for no reason? By magic, or something? LOL.

"Face mask mandates slowed the spread of COVID-19 in Canada"

"... This column evaluates the impact of mask mandates on the spread of COVID-19 in Canada, using the different timings that masks were mandated across the 34 health districts of the province of Ontario. Mask mandates are associated with a 25% or larger weekly reduction in new COVID-19 cases in July and August, relative to the absence of mandates.



Further re this topic:

You clearly stated a rise of new infections was attributed to covidiocy.
I ask you to please post stats which show the 2nd wave we are currently having is partly due to an increase in covidiocy.

I'll be waiting
 

lenny2

Well-known member
Jan 18, 2012
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In many of your posts in this subforum, you repeatedly state all of the benefits of the lockdown. Over and over, ad nauseum.
Because others post on the topic so much. It's a popular subject.

And wishing that all bars, airlines, motor vehicle plants, and other businesses that are "detrimental" to people's health should be closed forever and "good riddance"...... really? With all due respect, you do not decide what's detrimental for others.
Obviously you also don't - decide - what's detrimental for others. Though i have the freedom of speech, right to, can & did express an opinion about what i think is detrimental to the health of many people.

IMO something needs to be done to make international air travel for non essential purposes safer in order to avoid pandemic after pandemic.

Likewise something needs to be done re so many motor vehicle accident deaths. BTW, Sweden had a plan to reduce them to zero:

https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1...hUKEwjnuNnf6evsAhWYtp4KHZyDCCIQ4dUDCA0&uact=5
 
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lenny2

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doggystyle99

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Oh and BTW doggy, you still havent answered my question.

You said something along the lines of Swedes tend to listen to their government better.
Do you have any stats or other evidence to back this up??
Oh Phil you still ain't got a clue. Your question has been answered, you just have a hard time understanding what you are reading, hence why you keep repeating questions or your non factual posts. But here is the answer again go search the Sweden thread, I've pointed numerous times to the remarkable similarities to other Nordic bordering countries Denmark, Finland, Norway, and also explained the difference to other European nations.

Here is the spread of Coronavirus skyrocketing in Sweden unlike anything they've seen and at a significantly higher rate than their Nordic bordering neighbours Denmark, Finland, Norway

Oct 26--------1,070
Oct 27--------2,415
Oct 28--------3,394--------Previous highest daily total
Oct 29--------3,263
Oct 30--------4,062--------New Highest daily total
Oct 31--------2,989
Nov 1---------1,303
Nov 2---------1,573
Nov 3---------3,627

Nov 4---------3,213

The 7 day average in Sweden

Sept 1--------162
Nov 4---------2,862


 
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doggystyle99

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But you are cherry-picking US numbers. Look at France, Italy, Spain for example, they have had mandatory mask laws since the summer and their number have shot up since then.

Or look right here in Ontario, the ironic thing is new cases skyrocketed almost the exact week mask laws came into effect (see red line).
I think I know why it happening, I'll post my theory later today when I have more time

Damn you also can't read a chart and make false claims reading a chart. So here are the facts opposite to your non factual opinion.

Numbers of cases did not skyrocket almost the exact same week mask laws came into effect like you claim above
Also unlike what you claim below cases did not began an upward trend 4-6 weeks later unless you are looking at a different chart.

It took 2 months (8 weeks) after all of Ontario was re opened for the numbers to start to go upward, as parts of Ontario were already re opened earlier in mid to late June, masks were being worn in most if not all businesses and the skyrocketing of cases did not happen at least 3 months after.



So tell me what is the corelation between mask wearing in public and roughly 2-3.5 months later the number of cases increasing and eventually skyrocketing 3.5 months later?

I am truly amazed about how consistently wrong you are about everything you post in regards to this.

Masks were made mandatory in Ontario around July 14th, 2020. New cases began their upward trend 4 to 6 weeks later.
So typo on my part, not 1 week later, about 1 month later.


The rest of my post still stands, cases have skyrocketed since masks were made mandatory
 
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Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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Oh Phil you still ain't got a clue. Your question has been answered, you just have a hard time understanding what you are reading, hence why you keep repeating questions or your non factual posts. But here is the answer again go search the Sweden thread, I've pointed numerous times to the remarkable similarities to other Nordic bordering countries Denmark, Finland, Norway, and also explained the difference to other European nations.

Here is the spread of Coronavirus skyrocketing in Sweden unlike anything they've seen and at a significantly higher rate than their Nordic bordering neighbours Denmark, Finland, Norway

Oct 26--------1,070
Oct 27--------2,415
Oct 28--------3,394--------Previous highest daily total
Oct 29--------3,263
Oct 30--------4,062--------New Highest daily total
Oct 31--------2,989
Nov 1---------1,303
Nov 2---------1,573
Nov 3---------3,627

Nov 4---------3,213

The 7 day average in Sweden

Sept 1--------162
Nov 4---------2,862


You still havent answered my question.

You said something along the lines of Swedes tend to listen to their government better.
Do you have any stats or other evidence to back this up??
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
26,698
4,763
113
Damn you also can't read a chart and make false claims reading a chart. So here are the facts opposite to your non factual opinion.

Numbers of cases did not skyrocket almost the exact same week mask laws came into effect like you claim above
Also unlike what you claim below cases did not began an upward trend 4-6 weeks later unless you are looking at a different chart.

It took 2 months (8 weeks) after all of Ontario was re opened for the numbers to start to go upward, as parts of Ontario were already re opened earlier in mid to late June, masks were being worn in most if not all businesses and the skyrocketing of cases did not happen at least 3 months after.



So tell me what is the corelation between mask wearing in public and roughly 2-3.5 months later the number of cases increasing and eventually skyrocketing 3.5 months later?

I am truly amazed about how consistently wrong you are about everything you post in regards to this.
It doesnt matter what exact timeframe it was, the fact remains masks clearly didnt reduce the daily new infection rate the day they were made mandatory. Today we had another 900+ cases, new cases keep going up but not down
 
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